Yamaha AVR subwoofer clarification needed
Boomzilla -- Thu, 09/24/2009 - 05:47
I've a Yamana AV receiver. The subwoofer turnover frequency (as controlled by the receiver) is at 90 Hz. Although this is an acceptable frequency for the center channel, I don't want my main speakers cut off at 90 Hz.
What I want is for my main speakers to run full-range (for movies & music). When watching movies, I want the center channel (only) to revert to the subwoofer at 90 Hz.
The options for the Yamaha speaker controls are: Large, Small, or None. These seem self-explanitory.
The options for the subwoofer, though, are: Swfr, Main, or Both. These may mean what they say, but may not.
If my main speakers are set to "Large," my center set to "Small," and my sub set to "Swfr," does ALL signal below 90 Hz go to the subwoofer, or only the signal for those speakers set to "Small?" The Yamaha manual isn't clear.
Yamaha's manual says for Swfr setting: "The LFE signals are directed to the subwoofer" but it doesn't specify whether this means all channels or just the speakers that are set to their "small" setting.
Yamaha's manual says for Both setting: "Use this...if you want to mix the main channel low-frequency signals with the LFE signals." This also seems clear as mud - do they mean that the low frequency signals from all channels will be on both the main speakers and the subwoofer or only that the main channels will retain their low frequencies and that the main channels' low frequencies will simultaneously be sent to the subwoofer?
So back to my main question - can I run my main speakers in full-range while simultaneously sending the center channel bass (and ONLY the center channel bass) to the subwoofer?
With respect to home theater AVRs, consider simple "bass" and "LFE, low frequency effects" separately. For movies, the LFE channel is discrete. Just as there's a left channel, a center channel, etc, there's also an individual LFE channel. In additional, there's also a "bass" component to all channels, which are low notes/sounds, but are not LFEs. For you application, set the mains to large, the center to small, set the center crossover to the 90hz you desire, and set the subwoofer to "both". Now the LFE channel will output to both the subwoofer and mains, the low notes/sounds of the mains will remain at the mains, and the low notes/sounds of the center will be routed to the subwoofer. That said, I'd be hesitant to run mains as full and divert LFEs to them; many action/horror/drams soundtracks have sub-sonic (<20hz) LFE effects which are unlikely to be handled correctly by anything less than a beast of a speaker (IMHO). But, hey, they're your toys, play with them as you like.
I've been selling Yamaha AVRs for about 25 years, so I know the frustration you are going through! I agree with "peepochango" above when he says he hesitates to send the LFE to the mains. My basic answer to customers asking your type of question is simple, the only time I'd set my front speakers to large is if they can produce as much bass as my subwoofer. I originally got this from THX classes I attended back in 1994 and this has been confirmed by many maunfacturers since then. The other thing I've found is that almost all receivers sound smoother if you don't ask them to reproduce full range bass notes. Unless it is a huge surround receiver, most receivers don't have enough current to accurately produce all the bass from a theater soundtrack.
Boomzilla, I'd also add that you will compound issues of coherency with "overlapping" the LR mains running full along with the sub - it will definitely muddy the sound further than running the sub with the frequency cut-off not overlapping with the LR mains. Certainly, I recommend not running the sub at all when you are performing dedicated listening (i.e., no vid) and select "Direct Audio" settings that you have with the AVR for this purpose so that no processing is being imposed on the signal from your source. Happy listening!
Question is are you running sub[s] or like me,mains with built in powered subs[Def Tech]. In that case,you've got to run all bass to the mains.My old,but still sweet DSP-A1 doesn't see any more load-the amp in the tower handles that.
Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen. For now, I'm running subless & routing all info (including the LFE effects track) to my main speakers. This is acceptable because I don't listen at all loudly. The AVR might strain a bit if I simultaneously used all channels, but for now, I'm running only the front three channels (no rear surrounds).
I've opted not to use my self-powered sub because the subsonics bother my wife's ears. In fact, I'm strongly thinking of even removing the center channel speaker and using a straight stereo system for both music and movies. This would minimize the amount of equipment in my living room and still provide excellent sound.
In fact, my "target" system configuration is: Netbook computer running iTunes as a music server - Benchmark DAC1 HDR (USB DAC/preamp with remote) - McIntosh MC352 power amp - Thiel 1.5 speakers. That's it. This "stripped-down, hot-rod" system will, hopefully, provide such good stereo sound that I won't miss the movie effects so much. Time will tell!
In the meantime - thanks again for all your responses! - Boomzilla
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