Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 vs. PS Audio Perfect Wave vs. PS Audio DL III modded

jb5200 -- Fri, 09/03/2010 - 06:04

Hi there,
I currently have a PS Audio Digital Link III and really like it! I am using it with a Hiface and was curious if modding it with Stage IV would get me into the ballpark of that next level of sound. How does the modded DL III stack up against the Perfect Wave, Wyred 4 Sound, Bryston, etc?. I really like the sound characteristics of the PS Audio - clarity, bass impact and tightness (almost edgy), soundstaging and detail. I am affraid to go to a different brand in fear of losing those b/c every brand sounds different. I have used a friends Dac Magic and although it is really good for it's price it is a little duller and flatter to my taste.
What would be the best way to make use of my $$$? Mod the one I have, Perfect wave (b/c I like the PS Audio sound), or DAC2?
$900 to Mod
$2000 for Perfect Wave w/ the deal they have with trade in
$1500 for DAC2

Thanks,

Jeff

michael123 -- Fri, 09/03/2010 - 13:57

I had PS Audio PWD for about a week in my home setup. It is an incredible device, one of a kind on the market today - with 6 filters, upsampling options, connectivity and now with the new Bridge.
On top of that, it is built like a tank. Really, a statement, and a steal for its money

sangykim -- Thu, 09/23/2010 - 02:19

Jeff,
What did you end up doing?
I'm in a same boat as you.
I'm trying to replace my Krell SACD w/ a DAC (as most of my files live on a NAS anyway)
- Being new to the DAC world, I first started out w/ a V-DAC. Big mistake. Returned it.
- Then heard PWD in a store against SimAudio Moon 300D, Carly and Belcanto 1.5. Net net, PWD had about 30% more definition, clarity and depth.
- Then I read the review of W4S DAC. Talked to the folks at the company over the phone and he spent 30min. plus about the DAC and others. He raved W4S over DL III w/ CS mod IV.
Problem is that it's difficult to test out PWD against Wyred w/o paying for stocking fee or return shipping. But I haven't found a dealer who carries PWD, Wyred and Krell to do an a/b test.
PWD bridge sounds nice. But my first priority is sound before features...

Elliot Goldman -- Thu, 09/23/2010 - 15:05

Dear Sir,
With all due respect wouldn't the ability to try them out be worth the cost of freight? or a small fee?
We love the PWD it is an amazing device for the money.

jb5200 -- Thu, 09/23/2010 - 20:36

I am still on the fence. My buddy just got the W4S tonight and is raving about it. I am still biased with PWD b/c I like that signature sound; however, since the person who engineered one also engineered the other I am willing to bet they sound pretty close to the same. The price/performance ratio is probably better with the W4S but the PWD has more features for future proofing with the bridge not to mention the eye candy factor is much better with the PWD.

Ahhhhhhh, what to do? Maybe Mr. Harley could step in and provide a little insight to us all!

Jeff

sangykim -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 13:14

Bridge is a nice function. However, unless there's a significant sound improvement through the bridge, it might not be a strong enough ROI. - since I will be running my MacMini next to PWD (via toslink or USB) No need to jump into the discussion of which connector is better, etc. Also, the bridge is convenient but so is organizing files on any music player on a Mac.... So unless the bridge sucking down flac files directly from my NAS will provide 25% audible sound improvement, I'm not sure if bridge is worth the $. Just my 2cents based on how my likely setup would look like... I'm still basically down to PWD @ $2K (w/ promotion) VS W4S DAC 1@ $1.2K (w/ USB upgrade). Will PWD sound $800 better? Or going back to my original intention of getting a DAC - can PWD or W4S replace the sound quality coming from my Krell SACD. I paid $4K back in 2007. But it's at least a 5yr+ old technology. Technology goes a long way in 5 years...so I'm not necessarily comparing $ to $, as long as the DAC can outperform my Krell, I'd be happy.

Elliot Goldman -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 13:18

TOS link is aweful. PERIOD

sangykim -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 13:22

I'm new to this. Have you done Toslink/USB/Coax A/B test on your system? I don't have a DAC to do a shoot out on connection yet. (too many opinions on which one is the best connection) Which connection do you prefer? Also, how much difference in quality do you hear on Toslink/USB verse your preferred connection?

Elliot Goldman -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 13:22

I have a dca and trans and I am awaiting a bridge. I tried all the connections of the trans to the dac and the I2S with the PS silver cable is by far the best solution. It was better than the aes/ebu, co-ax and the hdmi I tried.
I would bet money that it will sound better than your Krell. The digital lens will make the sound better and that is why the bridge is an advantage besides the convience features

Elliot Goldman -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 13:26

I have not received my bridge so I have not tried the USB but I have used every connection for many years and the aes/ebu was the best, co-ax, next and tos a distant third.
I am looking foward to trying the USB especially with all the improvements in that area and what the bridge does is not just a simple way to get files but also to remove jitter.

sangykim -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 14:27

thanks for your feedback. very helpful.

Elliot Goldman -- Fri, 09/24/2010 - 14:34

Dont get overwhelmed by all the BS. The PW DAC is a bargain and you can run it directly into a power amp. It sounds really good IMHO better than a lot of really expensive gear I have played with which will remain un-named.
It is hard to quantify the percentage of difference ( i won't even try) but it will sound a lot better than the krell you have and if you feed it well ( always the trick, good signals in and good cables) it will thrill you.
Enjoy

rossop -- Sun, 09/26/2010 - 01:57

I own the PS Audio PWT and PWD and can say that this combo is the best I have ever owned. I cannot say I have heard any better anywhere. At the price they are indeed great value and when the bridge becomes available you will have an interface with PC based audio, which is where things seem to be going.
It is true that digital audio is improving all the time and there is little doubt that it will sound better than something from five years ago. There is also the ability to make firmware upgrades without it leaving your rack. Its easy. I can do it so every one can.
Cant speak highly enough of these two units.

jb5200 -- Wed, 09/29/2010 - 22:23

Well,
I had a chance to listen to my buddy's W4S and I gotta say it was impressive. He only had it for about 15 hrs. and they say it needs 200 for burn in but this was my impression so far, again MY impression so take it for what it's worth. Other's may have found different results and there are so many variables to consider so that's why I say my impression so far. There was detail galore, almost too much if there is such a thing. When it was connected to an anolog preamp there was waay too much high shimmer to it. There was an over-abundance of sheen to it. It was hard really put my finger on it - it wasn't bright but wow the high end really overpowered everything else. The low end definition was extremely good.
There was something missing in the middle though, there was no top to bottom balance or fullness. The midrange was sort-of hidden. It reminded me of listening to small bookshelves with a big sub. Then we hooked it up to his Anthem D1 and WOW! The Anthem balanced everything off, granted there was digital processing but now there was a solid, crisp midrange. There was actually fullness to the highs and improved thickness in the lower midrange. The low end was still there, in fact, the amount of bass is pretty incredible.
At $1500 it is well worth it. I am still tempted to do the PWD b/c that way we can compare them since they will probably sound more similar rather than different. I hope someone soon runs these two head to head b/c I am just waiting to hear that the PWD is better so I can go beyond what I heard with the W4S.

djmckaytx -- Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:37

I have recently received my W4S DAC-2. It took quite a while to get it...but wow!

One of my favorite redbook CDs is Pope Music's Entangled Devotions. I have an extensive listening history with this one. The first thing I gave a spin to was this disc. My system while not the highest of high end is not a slouch by any stretch of the imagination...but I have to say that adding this DAC made the soundstage at least double in size. The clarity and detail at all frequencies is better than I've ever pulled out of this system before.

I also spun up a DVD-V at 48k...Elton John's 2000 Ephesus concert (the exclusive to Best Buy edition). Again, I'm very familiar with this disc as well. Everything that was right about this recording bloomed. The very few things that were wrong were clearly wrong but did not leap at out you and swallow up everything that was right. Again, the best I've heard this disc sound.

I'll be running some SACD, DVD-A, and USB audio tonight after work...with the Atlona I should be able to run these at 24/88.2 and up to 24/192 respectively. I am expecting the same results.

For this price range of DAC (and it's ability to run USB audio at up to 24/192), I cannot recommend this more. If you are in the market for a potentially system-changing DAC, you need to give this serious consideration. Note that there is about a 2-3 wait right now as the demand is greater than their ability to crank these out.

Equipment: Legacy Whisper (bi-amped) R/L, Legacy Focus (bi-amped) C, Legacy Victoria RR/RL, Legacy Studio SR/SL, W4S DAC-2, Grover Huffman IC & Speaker Cables, Marantz AV-8003 Pre-Amp, Oppo BDP-83SE, Atlona 577

sangykim -- Wed, 10/20/2010 - 15:17

Got my PWD a few weeks ago and received the bridge this week.
I have not heard the DAC2 nor DLIII Mod. However, given that all of them have some PS Audio history/touch to it, I imagine they will all sound great. I think comes down to price. PWD can be had for as low as $1800 for a brand new unit these days. (w/ promotion, etc)
However, if you are contemplating that a Bridge will be a hugh sound quality differentiator, I disagree. I can't seem to tell a HUGE difference in sound quality playing FLAC files between the Bridge from my NAS OR Toslink from my MacMini (using Songbird to play). Maybe there is a slight difference but a $700 difference? Hmmm...not sure. But to be fair, I only spend less than 48 hours w/ the Bridge. I'll need to continue my listening.
Whatever you end up buying, it WILL sound great. I got tired of comparing so many DACs, I just took my CD player (Krell SACD) to a dealer and did an A/B shootout w/ PWD. PWD clearly sounded 20%+ better with definition and open. Now, I'm enjoying hundreds and hundreds of my music from my NAS and it's fantastic! Music at my fingertips. Just get any one of those DAC and you won't regret it.

agb -- Mon, 02/28/2011 - 14:43

I posted the following on the HiFiman HE-6 review comment section:
The Wyred4Sound DAC is certainly NOT explicit with the AUDEZE after having warmed up a couple of hundred hours. It is very relaxed, almost tubey sounding, but not warm at all. There is absolutely no grain, edge, fuzz or the etching one may hear with other DACs.
The AUDEZE cans can sound warm compared with others, but not always. It is not warm compared with live music in a good room. Others can be bright next to the real thing. The AUDEZE is full sounding. Full of details, harmony and musical textures.
The top of the sytem as a whole is extended enough, not etched, hyped or bright, very natural and overall the sound should be described as liquid, round and "pure."
The bass is such that it can leave skid marks. Stupendous and earth shaking. I've heard nothing like it from cans before.
The huge benefit of this system is the direct drive to earphones out of the DAC - and a good electrical match with the AUDEZE. With the W4S having a 32 bit volume pot and preamp functions, balance and other features can be accessed from the menu, filter slopes and such, we have full control. From what I understand, the DAC has a very linear class-A FET output stage, highly evolved in its design using lots of regulation, 4 SABRE DAC chips in parallel for balanced output achieving a huge dynamic range. I am awaiting the balanced cable that needed to be custom made for the male XLR outputs on the DAC - this should make another improvement, not as if I'm missing anything.
With this arrangement no additional headphone amp is required - making the W4S DAC-2 a genuine bargain at this price, this DAC is, as is, technically competitive with others costing four to six times as much. It is said that no wire with gain is better than any wire with gain. True. No additional interconnects are needed either. The only interconnect is between the iMAC and the DAC, a one meter NORDOST Blue Haven USB, reportedly the best as of this date. We'll see. At this point in time the system has the best sound I've had here by a reasonable margin. Quite stunning.

Steve Stone hit a home run in his review of the W4S DAC-2, and it, in combination with the AUDEZE cans, hit the proverbial sonic ball out of the park.

agb -- Mon, 02/28/2011 - 14:41

I should have emphasied the necessity for a lenghty warm up to get the W4S DAC-2 to perform the way it can. The fact is, I was not a very strong fan of the theory for warming up everything, especially not solid state, but then every day the damn thing sounded altogether better, opened up, clearer, with a leaner more linear sound. The warmth I noted initially receded almost entirely and the DAC now seems to be just that much more neutral in its presentation easily heard on voices. CDs never sounded like this.
The best part as I stated earlier is its sonic liquidity and purity, one's ears seem not to be able to lock onto any sort of artifact or grain. The spatial rendition is also expanding with time with a natural layering, none of the paper cutout imaging some DACs fall prey to. The most delicate details seem to emerge. I hate to use that old cliche: "I never heard that before." There are many such experiences, I won't bother to list them.

Lastly, the build is literally damn tank-like, the chassis is thick gauge metal with what appears to be be a thick and hard powder coat, all bolted together with more than a dozen Torx screws - keep out of the innards! It's built not like the Benchmark and some of the cheaper DACS like the Centrance and many others - surface mount technology that cell phones and computers use - but more like a niche high end preamp or small amplifier. Discrete circuits throughout, a huge transfomer and many regulators mostly. Nice! A professional product all the way, including the clean display and menu.

Can I say something negative about it? I'll think something up. For now no.

djmckaytx -- Mon, 02/28/2011 - 14:52

Yep...I have to agree. Since my earlier reply, I have spent quite a bit of time listening to this. The more time this has had to break-in, the better it sounds. EJ told me it would start to flush out at about 100 hours or so, but to my ears it took only about 60 or 70.

Using the Atlona/Oppo combo and listening to SACDs at 88.2 (and USB digital files at up to 24/192) with the DAC-2 is audio heaven. Everything else I've tried before (and compared back and forth) just sounds all bunched up and smeared to me - with the DAC-2 the soundstage just opens up like nothing else. Simply put, it's the BEST I've personally heard in 30+ years of audio pursuit.

RUN to the W4S website and get your order in...I waited about a month for mine to arrive, but it was more than worth it. :=D

agb -- Mon, 02/28/2011 - 19:42

Yeah, I also had to wait a long time to get mine. Perhaps you're right, 60 hours may be enough to warm it up, I can't say, though I have now substantially more time on it and it just keeps getting better - in fact I keep lowering the volume because the transparency gets clearer. I left the DAC running overnight to get it burned in. Now I'm afraid the more superlatives I throw at it in my comments the less people will believe me, so I have to find some fault with it. Problem is I can't as of this date. It looks good, is built really well, and it is the best sounding DAC I've heard to date. So it'll just have to wait until something significantly better comes along - mostly close to this ridiculously low price range - remember, it has a built-in preamp in it and a BALANCED headphone amp if you can connect to its outputs. However, W4S already took care of future-proofing this device. Replaceable circuit boards.
What tells me all I need to know about the achievement of its designer is that I can't stop listening to it.
For those reading this, you must listen to the AUDEZE headphones with this DAC. It's an electron microscope into layered sonic textures and landscapes.
A warning: The stock AUDEZE cables supplied with the headphones will not fit the W4S DAC-2. You'll need to buy the XLR cable from AUDEZE and have an adapter made - see below from these custom cable makers:
http://www.infinitecables.com/pop/av_xlrf-rca.htm
These will fit the RCA outputs and they are fine. So with these adapters, you're looking at $130 or so for the whole shebang.
Very good quality, low prices as you can see, and quick service.
For balanced operation, another adapter will have to be made up: XLR female to XLR female. There will be a 6dB volume increase however - maybe too much?

agb -- Thu, 12/01/2011 - 13:54

Adding to recent discoveries.

MOON AUDIO's Silver Dragon headphone cable is a must with the Audez'e LCD-2. It can almost sound like - the LCD-3! Yup....

Has to have the RCA plugs at the other end to fit the DAC-2...MOON supplied the top end German plugs for moi.

No change to the above impressions to date. DACS keep getting better, but then the whole needs to be better and that is not always the case.

It's still better to need no headphone amp, extra wires, or external preamp/volume control. Here the W4S DAC-2 is still leading.