Wilson X-2 Installation in RH's house
Robert Harley -- Thu, 06/19/2008 - 12:41
Seeing the installation of the big MBLs in Jonathan's house was so interesting that I've put together a series of photos showing the recent set up of the Wilson X-2 Alexandria Series 2 in my listening room. Most of the photos were taken by Daryl Wilson.
The X-2 crates ready for unpacking. I uncrated all the components and moved them into the listening room before Dave Wilson’s arrival. Moving nearly one ton of loudspeakers myself was made possible by the clever design. The bass cabinets are on casters, and can be rolled out of the crates. The casters are later replaced by spikes (see later photo) once the correction speaker positioning has been determined. The “wings” that support the midrange and tweeter modules, the modules themselves, and the crossover cover are heavy, but manageable.
The X-2 components ready for assembly. All the components are protected by a plastic film that is removed after installation is complete.
The “wings” that hold the midrange and tweeter modules can be seen on the floor.
The X-2 bass cabinets with “wings” attached, ready for installation of the midrange and tweeter modules.
Dave Wilson and his son, Daryl, install the X-2’s midrange module.
The regular listening seat was temporarily moved out of the way and substituted with a movable chair to find exactly the right listening position.
Dave Wilson adjusts the X-2’s midrange module. Each upper module moves on two axis—forward and backward for time-domain alignment, and on the vertical axis (tilt up and down) for optimal driver dispersion. Wilson holds a patent on this “Aspherical Propagation Delay” technique. The settings are different for every listening distance and listening height. The mechanism that realizes these adjustments is executed with amazing precision.
Dave Wilson begins to characterize the system’s performance. Wilson has extremely detailed notes on every single loudspeaker set up he’s done, going back decades, all in multiple 2” 3-ring binders. His approach is the antithesis of “move the speakers until they sound good.” Rather, he has developed a precise and repeatable formal methodology that allows independent adjustment of specific sonic qualities.
Once the loudspeakers are in approximately the right location, the long process of fine adjustments begins. The marks on the tape allow repeatability and provide reference points.
The last step is to replace the casters beneath the speakers with spikes. Wilson’s custom-made jack makes this easier than it sounds.
Finished installation.
First listen to the completed set up.
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This is very cool, Robert!
Yes indeed :)
Would it be possible to post further details on his setup methodology?
I planned on including a sidebar on the set-up methodology with my review of the X-2 in Issue 186.
May I ask, with the Alex 2 are the speakers farther back ((IE- triangulation in respect to your listening position)) because the high frequency array is higher than ear level and aiming down? Is this still the best sound you have heard? Bass notes are im portant are they not? Speedy1
Super - thanks !
Robert I am really looking forward to your upcoming review of this system. I currently listen to the SDR-4000S Pro and Spectral Pre/Power and have some idea of the fun you are having with the system. HDCD encoded discs often sound like master tapes don't they? It would be great if after reviewing the Wilson speakers you could try another worthy speaker system with the Spectral/MIT front end. Your review of the Revel Salons followed by the Magico V3 and the comparison between them was THE most informative review I have ever read ! Context is everything in audio. Keep up the good work.
Best Regards
Ernie
Thanks for the comments about the Magico V3 and Revel Salon2 reviews. I had the Spectral preamp and amp for just three days with the V3 (before the X-2 arrived) and can tell you that the Spectral electronics really brought out the V3's best qualities. Incidentally, the X-2 was designed on the DMA-360.
The SDR-4000 Pro is amazing. As you point out, HDCD discs played on the SDR-4000 Pro (and an entire Spectral/MIT chain) do sound like master tape. The player has an astonishing combination of ultra-high resolution without a trace of etch or analytical quality. That is unique in my experience. The reproduction of a recording's spatial qualities are also unparalleled. I've been listening a lot lately to the Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances on Reference Recordings. I have a copy of this on HRx format, the 176.4kHz, 24-bit high-res format, but have not yet built a PC in the listening room to play it back.
Thanks for the pics, Robert.
Very interesting.
I REALLY like the idea of a jack for large (and heavy) loudspeakers so one can easily replace casters with spikes. Any idea whether Wilson will offer this as a separate product? (I'm not joking)
Thanks,
Jim
Nicely done Robert... Please consider moving the "last half" of the thread where we fleshed some more of this setup discussion into this thread (I probably shouldn't have started this discussion in the other thread to begin with as I look back on it).
http://forums.avguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=3916
edwardce wrote:Robert I am really looking forward to your upcoming review of this system. I currently listen to the SDR-4000S Pro and Spectral Pre/Power and have some idea of the fun you are having with the system. HDCD encoded discs often sound like master tapes don't they? It would be great if after reviewing the Wilson speakers you could try another worthy speaker system with the Spectral/MIT front end. Your review of the Revel Salons followed by the Magico V3 and the comparison between them was THE most informative review I have ever read ! Context is everything in audio. Keep up the good work.
Best Regards
Ernie
I'm also running Specral/MIT pre/power (into Eidolons). Don't have the SDR 4000S though (yet). What speakers are you running with your system? Perhaps we should start another thread on Spectral?
The Wilson jack works amazingly well. I don't think they have plans to market it separately, but perhaps there's an opportunity for another company to make a similar device.
RH, do you have a frequency curve yet?
Also-I know a bit about thw Wilson set up technique, but thought it was usually at a given listening postion-can you elaborate on what they did to find THAT spot?
Hi Rupert. Wilson measured the frequency response in the bass with a spectrum analyzer, moving it back and forth near the listening position until he found the location with the smoothest response and the deepest extension. We found a 4dB difference at 30Hz over about six inches of movement (among other differences).
The bass of this system is the best I've heard, and not just in deep extension as one would expect from a large system. The articulation, dynamics, and definition are astounding. The integration with the room is the best I've heard.
Highly interesting!
Robert, can you please tell us the distance between the speakers and the size of your listening room? Just to have an idea.
And also, more pics please when you have set up the system properly, I do not think that you just leave the amps on the floor!! Or...... ???
Thanks,
Changab..
ps.
Be proud of the work you and the other writers have done with the worlds leading audio magazine !! TAS has never been better!
Thank you for the comment about TAS, Changabang.
My room is 14.5' wide, 21' long, and has a 9' ceiling. I built the house, and chose those dimensional ratios for the listening room. I sit, not surprisingly, 7' from the back wall (the old "Rule of Thirds"). The X-2s are pretty far into the corners, but there's no problem with room gain or excessive bass. I usually have speakers farther out into the room. The room has been treated, and has a measured reverberation time of 0.32-0.36 seconds between 125Hz-4kHz. There's one ASC 16" Full Round Tube Trap in one corner behind the listening position.
robert_harley6 wrote:Thank you for the comment about TAS, Changabang.
The X-2s are pretty far into the corners, but there's no problem with room gain or excessive bass. I usually have speakers farther out into the room.
re: room gain-Will you be doing any measurements on your own? Or further position tweaking?
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
I won't be moving the X-2s from the current location; it took nearly two days to find just the right spot for them. It was interesting to hear the system evolve from when we first turned it on, through the various positions, and to the final set-up with the spikes installed.
This is particularly true when the set-up takes more than one day. The manufacturer spends the first day setting up, and then leaves for the evening, giving me time to listen to the system on my own with my musical selections. I've sometimes been surprised to discover that a great sound achieved after the first day turns into a spectacular sound after the second day. I say "surprised" because the system delivered more than I thought was possible. This is why it's a good idea for the designer or company representative to set-up the loudspeakers; they know the product's performance potential and when that potential has been achieved.
Any reason you are not publishing any in-room measurements? It would be very interesting and valuable to see that.
robert_harley6 wrote:This is why it's a good idea for the designer or company representative to set-up the loudspeakers; they know the product's performance potential and when that potential has been achieved.
I think this is especially true with a speaker of enormous potential-that is, output and full range extension. I can vouch for RH's statement when Sumiko's John Hunter setup the new Sonus Faber Cremona M in my listening room. He optimized them in a way that frankly surprised me. I've since moved them about to and fro but have not achieved the overall sense of smoothness and bass response that Hunter achieved. Look for my review this fall-it's a very special loudspeaker and a lot of performance for $13K.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
I'll see if I can get that data.
RH- what's the distance from the front of the X2s to the rear wall?
Surprisingly, it's just 43", measured at the closest point.
Thanks for the info.
BTW, there's been a number of posts about your X2 set up over at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum/message/22299
Robert, I'm new to this forum and enjoy the photos of your room. I'm curious about whether or not the best speaker location in your particular room as setup by David Wilson would change after the speakers have had a chance to break-in. Would the bass response/interaction with the room not be different after the drivers have loosen up a bit?
My first posting as well. I was hoping for some in-room X-2 measurements. I have recently audition the X-2 in a room slightly bigger then RH. I thought that the bass region around the 60-100 Hz was overwhelming. Clearly, they will need a much bigger room to tame this.
I haven't found that to be the case (the speakers need moving after break-in). To address Zink's comment that my room is too small, and that the bass must be overblown, I will say that the bass quality I hear from the X-2 in my room is by far the best I've heard from any loudspeaker. Not only is there no room-induced bloat, the integration of the mid-bass with the room, the resolution in the bottom three octaves, and the transient fidelity are truly stunning.
This causes a bit of cognitive disconnect; here are these very large loudspeakers placed very close to the corners sounding quick and articulate in the bass. Also, when there's little low-frequency energy, the X-2's size seems to disappear.
I'm in the middle of writing the review at the moment.
This was the opposite of what I have heard, and frankly, in an opposition to rational. That is why I was hoping you will support your finding with some “objective†means like in-room measurements. I find it odd that you will not do so. Such a feature will help in assessing a product tremendously and will add much needed credibility to any review.
Zink wrote:This was the opposite of what I have heard, and frankly, in an opposition to rational. That is why I was hoping you will support your finding with some “objective†means like in-room measurements. I find it odd that you will not do so. Such a feature will help in assessing a product tremendously and will add much needed credibility to any review.
How will measurements in RH's room give you any idea how the X-2s (or any other speaker for that matter) will sound in your room? I will agree that some measurements can be interesting, if not useful, but they're not essential to a review.
As for credibility, I think its fair to say that all of TAS' reviewers--RH included--have well-established credentials.
RichTeer, I like to know how RH (or any other reviewer) impression correlate with how the speakers actually perform in their room. In-room measurements, in this day and age, are fairly simple to make. Of course a full battery of measurements will be preferred but that is probably too much to ask. What I have heard is totally different then what RH is describing. Perhaps the setup that I heard was less optimized but I felt that the issues with the bass were not just room related. A simple in-room snap shot would have helped in clarifying some of the uncertainties I have. I feel that they are essential to any review.
Pretty neat! Please tell me that you don't listen critically while your amps are on the floor...
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Great pictures.
Do all X2 buyers get the same level of attention to detail in the setup ?
Differing quality fo setup could explain what Zink heard.
First, I do listen critically with the amplifiers on the floor. Their designer, along with the founder of the company that makes them, are perhaps the most critical, uncompromising, and demanding individuals in high-end when it comes to sound quality. They visited, listened to the set-up, and were thrilled by the system's sound (with the amps on the floor).
Do you have experience that suggests amplifiers should not be on the floor?
To address tasreader's question, Wilson dealers are carefully trained in the same set-up technique Dave Wilson employed. As I said in another post, it's not a case of moving the speakers, listening, and moving the speakers again. Rather, Wilson has developed a repeatable procedure for dialing in speakers. I haven't experienced as a customer a dealer set-up, so I can't comment definitively whether my set-up was better than what one gets from a dealer. I will say, however, that Wilson takes the set-up in the customer's home seriously. As Dave Wilson said to me, "The X-2 costs as much as a Mercedes S-Class. There can be no excuses."
Yes. Dick Brown (from Brown Electronic Labs or BEL) explained to me that the amp will take on the sonic character from the surface of what the amp is resting on. Through listening and experimenting I found this to be true. I used to leave my BEL on the hardwood floors until I followed his advice and used a Symposium Ultra. He's right. It changed everything for the better. Mr. Brown does indeed use the Symposium to tune his amps, so that certainly makes sense there. However, the Symposium's have done similar improvements under all of my equipment with dramatic results.
Have you tried anything under the amps?
I think that it's great that there is a forum like this. Other forums out there do not have the advantage of a professional overseeing it's discussions. I am a young audiophile with around 5 years in this hobby and am enjoying it's rewards.
Maybe RH has an amazing sounding floor.
Now how about some in room measurements!!
Thanks for that information about the Symposium amplifier stands. All their other products are very sophisticated.
I'm always open to new discoveries.
My pleasure. In the very little time that I have in this hobby I have encountered a few products that can change the way an audio system sounds. And of those few, only the Symposium changed the system for the better. I just received my new issue of HiFi Plus today and saw that there's a review for Silent Running Audio (S.R.A.). It appears that the guys at S.R.A. have similar products with more tech involved. To your (or anyone) knowledge, has there ever been a comparison between Symposium and S.R.A.? The S.R.A is a bespoke product so the comparison would have to be under the same electronics for the review to have merit IMHO.
Best
Nick
I notice RH is ignoring, somewhat bluntly, requests for in–room measurements. I wonder if RH sees this simple request as an inappropriate one. RH will gladly reply to suggestions that equipments “ will take on the sonic character from the surface it is resting on†but will not address real legitimate concerns such as in-room speakers performance. It is a real shame that the only review of the X-2 I know about will not have any supporting measurements. I was really hoping to own one of these babies but based on what I have heard, it does not make much sense. It is particularly frustrating since it may very well be just a bad set-up.
Hi RH great forum so far. Comments here are interesting as they are entertaining. I have a question that interests me most. Are your walls treated with fabric covered panels? Its a little hard to tell but it looks like you ceilings are treated the same way. Keep up the great work. I enjoy reading your reviews and books. They're most educational.
Zink. You owe me quarter for quoting me!
ngt1977-
Is Dick Brown (from Brown Electronic Labs or BEL) still in business?
If so, do you know how to contact him?
My room was treated by Acoustic Room Systems (now part of CinemaTech). The system was originally developed in the Owens-Corning acoustical laboratory. It consists of 1.25" panels with thin drywall on one side and fiberglass on the other. If installed with the fiberglass out, the panel absorbs mid and high frequencies. If installed with the drywall facing out, it reflects mid and high frequencies and absorbs bass (through diaphragmatic action). A second material is a molded plastic material with a convoluted surface for dispersion. About 20% of the room is the convoluted surface, 70% reflective side out, and 10% fiberglass side out. Every surface including the ceiling is covered by one of these materials (except the windows and doors).
The entire scheme was modeled on a computer. The acoustician who modeled it (Norm Varney, now of AV RoomService) did an on-site measurement after the materials were installed, but before the fabric went up. We tweaked some of the material orientation and placement, and then the fabric was installed.
The room has a measured reverberation time of 0.34 seconds, +0.02 seconds, -0.05 seconds from 125Hz to 8kHz. (It rises to 0.49 seconds at 63Hz, and 0.85 seconds at 31Hz.)
I built the room five years before the acoustic treatments and picked the dimensional ratios. I reviewed in the room for five years before the ARS treatment, and have had it for six years since.
Thanks RH for the reply. I have what I call an entry level acoustic treatment setup that I find somewhat satisfactory. I have been pondering whether to invest in something more professional. I've done some research of different companies in my area and beyond. But this topic should be left for a different forum. I appreciate you sharing the information. Also, I look foward to your review of the X2's. Should your readers be expecting an issue with full reviews of the X2's, Quad 2905, and the MBL 101X Speakers? What an issue that would be!
hoganbo
Yes. Dick Brown is still in business. He can be reached at 408-259-8648. The current amp is BEL 1001 MkV and he is still doing cables for the BEL. On a side note. His cables and amps are the best I've heard and the best value in the industry. I hope this helps.
I agree with you concerning the BEL 1001 MkV amps. I have a pair of monoblocks and don't ever think about replacing them. I felt the same way about the cables until someone sent me some of Grover Huffman's to evaluate. Despite BEL's claims of ultra-wide bandwidth they sound a wee bit rolled off on the high end compared to Grover Huffman cables. I have switched my speaker and interconnect cables and am currently evaluating Grover's power cords, which show great promose as well.
Best,
Paul
I think that Zink is missing the boat in disqualifying the X-2 Series 2 from purchase consideration without an in-room frequency response graph. Having heard the X-2 Series 2 in two locations (and the X-2 Series 1 in five locations), I can say with confidence that the bass problems you heard in your single demo are a result of the room or set-up, and are not intrinsic to the loudspeaker.
As you’ll see in my review in Issue 186, I say that the X-2’s bass in my room is the smoothest, most articulate, and best defined of any loudspeaker I’ve heard.
I’m concerned about providing an in-room response graph for several reasons. First, the curve can be made to look quite different depending on the microphone’s location. Second, many readers will give the graph far more emphasis and credence than it deserves. Third, a single two-dimensional plot of frequency vs amplitude is misleading in that it doesn’t begin to characterize the loudspeaker’s performance.
If you are seriously considering the X-2, I encourage you to visit a dealer who has them set up well.
Where did you audition them?
I have been using RTA measurements in my personal as well as friends systems for some time now. I find them to be very helpful and fairly consistence with what I hear. Especially in the bass region. I think that JV use of RTA to support what he is hearing is a very welcome feature to your magazine. I am not quite sure I follow your logic in your concern to publish such measurements. I can’t see how they can be so misleading and I would like to be given the option to assess the situation for myself. With all due respect, I will not make such a big purchase only because you, or any other reviewer, say I should. For obvious reasons, I would not disclose the place I heard the X-2 in but the dealer was kind enough to arrange a privet demo for me at one of his clients. That will give me the opportunity to hear the speakers at a different setup. I will report back on my experience. In the mean time, please reconsider.
Zink wrote:I have been using RTA measurements in my personal as well as friends systems for some time now. I find them to be very helpful and fairly consistence with what I hear. Especially in the bass region. I think that JV use of RTA to support what he is hearing is a very welcome feature to your magazine. I am not quite sure I follow your logic in your concern to publish such measurements. I can’t see how they can be so misleading and I would like to be given the option to assess the situation for myself. With all due respect, I will not make such a big purchase only because you, or any other reviewer, say I should. For obvious reasons, I would not disclose the place I heard the X-2 in but the dealer was kind enough to arrange a privet demo for me at one of his clients. That will give me the opportunity to hear the speakers at a different setup. I will report back on my experience. In the mean time, please reconsider.
Why not ask John Atkinson, he measures everything?
Zink wrote: With all due respect, I will not make such a big purchase only because you, or any other reviewer, say I should.
Well I would think anyone who would do so would be mad. I don't think any reviewer would assume one should go buy just on their word; nearly every positive review I read ends up with a 'put it on your audition list' type of comment. Even some negative reviews conclude that the eqpt under review might appeal to some, though the reviewer didn't like it.
For me, reviews are a guide (a great one at that) to what I should put on my audition shortlist. Tastes, considerations, compromises vary and in the end, it's the buyer that pays his/her money and has to live with the equipment.
I've long advocated the idea that reviews are the starting point for one's own auditioning, not some final judgment. A review is nothing more than one person's opinion, although that opinion can be carefully considered and based on experience.
I'll be interested to hear the results of your listening to the X-2 in another setting.
Incidentally, I usually employ three Acoustic Sciences Corporation 16" Full-Round Tube Traps to provides some additional low-frequency absorption in my room. Two are positioned in the corners behind the speakers, and one behind the listening seat.
We removed the two Tube Traps behind the speakers during the X-2 set-up, and after comparing the sound with and without, decided to leave them out of the room. That's a first, and surprising considering the X-2's prodigious bass output.