VPI "Classic"
default -- Sat, 03/07/2009 - 16:13
Has anyone seen or heard this in person yet? It looks like a sweet table from the pictures on the VPI web-site.
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I don't think you have really listened to a Classic because the one thing a Classic doesn't have is belt drive sound. If anything, when paired with a great cartridge, it sounds like the rim drive more than a belt drive. We need more details, what cartridge was on the Classic? Was the Classic installed in a custom isolation base like the Technics?? Was the system capable of resolving the information pouring out of the Classic?? I had a Technics SP-10, 10-2, and 10-3 in fact I use to sell the Technics 100, 250, and 500 tonearms for Technics on my tables. I know the Technics very well, I also know the Kenwood LO-7 very well having had one for 6 years.
The direct drive units have a very characteristic sound, not better, not worse, just a diffeerent, and in my opinion soundstage constricting, presentation. Besides, who fixes your Technics when it breaks, and it will? Who builds the new base? There is more to this than meets the eye for the average audiophile. My testimg shows a lack of very low level resolution that is very obvious on classical recording.
HW
BTW, building a good base for a direct drive table is an art and can cost more than the whole Classic table.
HW
I have kept away from this thread for a while because of the hero-worship. No doubt deserved, but still a bit sycophantic. We might all remember that saying: 'there is no such thing as a free lunch'. Decks selling at $2,500 do not routinely outclass decks at multiples of that price. That's just the workings of economics....and even good design can only go so far. Precision design and precision engineering really costs....that's why the lunch isn't really 'free.' If you print this thread out and keep it (say) five years, you will see what I mean. VPI will have moved on, there will be yet another 'great' deck (how many have there been?) and the Classic will be history. That's the history of VPI....you can call it restless research, or you can call it marketing...in reality it is a bit of both.
You can pay too much for a deck (haven't we all) but you rarely pay below what it is really worth. That's the market, folks! VPIdecks are fine...I like them, I would recommend them,. but there are others. Hero worship isn;t the answer.
Paskinn, your comments (on hero worship & the doubt the Classic outclasses others at multiples of that price) are insulting and assumptive.
HP has stated his opinions more than once on the subject, and he is retiring his Scout decks as a result (this issue of TAS). 'A steal at $2500, this one does not suffer by comparison with the Clearaudio Statement..." This is a $100,000 plus turntable from an extremely trusted voice in the High End. Perceptions and talk about soundstaging, for instance, prior to 1980 did not even EXIST prior to this man's work and findings.
That pretty much means an audition, as HW has put some very different technology designs into this model, wheras in other models (at this point in time), he has not. VPI does not 'move on', and your lack of knowledge of this company's line (and in this very different but simulatenously technological development- direct mounting of the motor to plinth to elimate FM sideband additives and other random motion) is clearly hampering your ability to argue this point accurately. Keep in mind this is the 'Classic', and a very major update and redesign of the 30-year old HW-19 turntable. Yeah, 1980.
Gee, they said that Strain-Gauge cartridges would never come back, and lookie here! This month's review of the Soundsmith is proof, but is it new or old technology? It's never that cut and dried, and most audiophiles know that- vacuum tubes, lps, and reel to reel tape drives all are enjoying new technology applied to their old roots. Most if not all of HW's designs have been honed over years and years of development and listening. Clearly you are misinformed, and are being contrary for the sake of argument.
Perhaps before forming an opinion about the 'shoulds and should nots', you should listen to a well-set up Classic. And then if you like the deck and find it surpasses other, more expensive turntables, you too can 'worship the hero'! I love the company because of their fine products, great, inexpensive upgrade paths, and very personalized and passionate customer service. Case in point- where else would you get to talk and respond to the designer and owner of the company in question?!
If you don't care to listen to the table or understand the company's offerings before making assumptions about it, you probably should leave this area of the forum for other turntable discussions.
I would highly recommend you read this month's Stereophile "As We See It" for some very enlightening discussion on the VPI Classic and its extreme value found by another publication. Steven Guttenberg may not have very good LP cleaning habits (his haiku is "I never clean them - I let the stylus do all - Of the dirty work" Listener Nov-Dec 2000), but he has also retired his 3x expensive turntable, LP12(!), for the Classic. I quote: "No, the real clincher for the VPI was this: It's a lot more fun to listen to." "Wow, what a difference a turntable can make! One record led to the next, and night after night I stayed up late, listening to LP's. That hadn't happened in years. I was smitten."
While many times audio hype and marketing ruin the truth, clearly the Classic is the one exception to the rule. Again, you should listen to one before making judgements about the very nature of truths in audio, as real change occurs when people open their minds, and throw away the assumptions of their past beliefs (based on real experience).
The market changes all of the time, based on truly revolutionary products like Magneplanar speakers, digital amplifiers from NAD, and now the Classic from VPI. See if you don't agree.
I have been trying to make the simple point that hero worship and hype is not any sort of answer. And as for trying to re-inforce the over-excitement of some journalists by quoting yet more journalists...how is that for a circular argument. I could quote you a seemingly endless stream of 'rave' reviews by writers, many thousands (literally) of them. The treatment of the 'Classic'' has all the qualities you periodically see in the world of hifi magazines (the extreme example would have been the hero worship of Linn a few years ago).
The point is simple...time will tell; having heard the Classic I am content to let the passing of time sort this out. As it always does. And now , I will take Mr Glotzer's kind advice and leave this thread for good (NAD digital amp a' revolution'.....really?).
By the way, I am a journalist, and have been all my working life.
Don't let the door hit ya...............................
And by your own admission, aren't you invalidating everything you have written, as you too, are a 'journalist'? Or do you count, and the other proven journalists in audio don't? That removes whatever credulity you though you had.
Some time ago I retired my old turntable. Today I installed my new Classic with a Benz Ace cartridge and new Phenonema Phonostage (running on batteries). This system is obviously not "broken in". I concede that this cannot be the best setup in the world, but if the first sounds are any indication, it's going to be fantastic. Now I remember why I love analog! I used to chase the latest, greatest, class A super duper equipment, but finally came to my senses. Instead I bought a Porsche. My recommendation: set aside the pissin' contests, use the money you saved to buy more records, then sit back and enjoy the music.
Oh, what is your answer, sir? None it appears other than to leave. Mr. P once again shows that he looks for the smallest inconsistency to fight his argument- the NAD reference (which is also another undoing). There are no hyped remarks by any long term editor of a massive publication like TAS (massivity in scope and import- not readership), nor is there any thing here that is hero worship, whether it be the VPI or the NAD... Yes really, is it is revolutionary product according to greater minds than yours, but Mr. P has not seen (nor heard amp) the latest reviews (Stereophile/TAS) in either major US pub, nor has he opened his mind thus far. I also doubt he has read any of the current reviews, as he makes no references, nor verifications at all for ANY of the assertions he makes here. Journalism in this sport has far more responsibility placed on it than 99% of the real news pubs out there, too bad he doesnt know nor believe that. You've been buying your own bullshit for too long, and now you cant believe anything at all, from your lack of a real statement. Continue this to its end, and you end up alone.
Fitting that he would reduce the LP12 to a hero-worship from "a few years ago", when in reality it has been 'worshipped' for over 30 years, as well as the VPI Classic's orgins, by millions of people. Do your research, man. Journalist indeed. Do all journalists have no basis for fact, and then run away after being exposed for the charlatan they are? I wonder what reference you are now using to 'judge' the Classic- it seems that you have no reference to the Classic, but feel it is somehow overhyped. In reference to what?!
No thoughts on what he thought of the turntable either? No comparison or thoughts at all? Hmmm.. Perhaps he is a liar. I find it quite unbelievable that he would loathe the discussion and then willfully fight himself to listen to the Classic in an unbiased fashion (as he already has obvious issues). No, he forgot that this is the 'Classic' area of the Forum, and seems to feel were all worshipping Harry Weisfeld (worse religions have been around), and that sound has nothing to do with this goals in audio. Clearly another flat-earth fool, and very obviously a poor journalist. No references, no footnotes, and pretty crappy English, and no real desire to argue his point, other than his own circular silliness with no real substance, claiming that WE'RE all biased and fools. We'll surely miss you the next time you don't post to this thread.
I think one great area where VPI does deserve a huge accolades is in it's modularity and customizibility. I have added various motors, bases and suspensions to my HW-19 over the past 20 years, at reasonable cost and time points. To be consistently refreshed with new parts or even slightly (or massively in some cases) improved parts, is a huge boon in staying current with the general level of investment I made long ago. Every 10 years there are small but very worthwhile upgrades or finishing techniques that propel a healthy need to bring various components to 'reference' spec for truly reasonable sums.
I also have restained and resealed several HW-19 turntable bases to my custom liking several times over the past 15 years. I have one in electric blue, one in golden oak, and one soon to be in Sedona Red! Being able to change the appearance with a better finish and gloss is a very welcome part of involvement in this hobby. To be able to retain a 25-year old turntable and keep it up to snuff to work and look like a vintage Porsche 911 Targa IS utterly heroic.
And, many of the optional upgrades here offered by VPI today, like the Periphery Clamp or the Rim Drive or the SAMA, are all truly innovations. Who was the first turntable company to 'disconnect' their motors in an outboard fashion? I think Verdier. But VPI did so at a much more reasonable price point for all existing HW-19 owners, over 15 years ago, as fully covered in TAS (1993), and Stereophile. Several new innovations were brought by VPI to the public then. Since then, several entirely new products like the Scout (from the Aries) have implemented very new design approaches.
TIme and time again, the past has proven to be a powerful and valuable watermark to further current technologies into the future. Case in point, The Classic. Similar design evolution in an interesting parallel can be drawn from a speaker like the Magneplanar 1.6. Many mods and customizations (x-overs and stands) over the years have also pushed Magnepan to integrate design evolution into innovation, and technology has provided the material. In this shared example, aluminium; where the frame on the speaker is new, but the technology in the drivers have undergone evolution as well as new design implementation. In the case of the VPI Classic, the platter, with other materials.
CMB is another huge design innovation (& evolution) that Clearaudio owns, and HP also agrees (recent RMAF keynote) that their approach on magenetic repulsion is very valid to audio technology, and the use of ceramics is a big landmark for them. This collective of improvements from a variety of manufacturers could lead to real breakthroughs in turntable design and implementation that people could look on this era as being very important for decades to come.
Well, time to stain the turntable... Man it's gonna look great!
I think one great area where VPI does deserve huge accolades is in it's modularity and customizibility. I have added various motors, bases and suspensions to my HW-19 over the past 20 years, at reasonable cost and time points. To be consistently refreshed with new parts or even slightly (or massively in some cases) improved parts, is a huge boon in staying current with the general level of investment I made long ago. Every 10 years there are small but very worthwhile upgrades or finishing techniques that propel a healthy need to bring various components to 'reference' spec for truly reasonable sums.
I also have restained and resealed several HW-19 turntable bases to my custom liking several times over the past 15 years. I have one in electric blue, one in golden oak, and one soon to be in Sedona Red! Being able to change the appearance with a better finish and gloss is a very welcome part of involvement in this hobby. To be able to retain a 25-year old turntable and keep it up to snuff to work and look like a vintage Porsche 911 Targa IS utterly heroic.
And, many of the optional upgrades here offered by VPI today, like the Periphery Clamp or the Rim Drive or the SAMA, are all truly innovations. Who was the first turntable company to 'disconnect' their motors in an outboard fashion? I think Verdier. But VPI did so at a much more reasonable price point for all existing HW-19 owners, over 15 years ago, as fully covered in TAS (#94), and Stereophile. Several new innovations were brought by VPI to the public then. Since then, several entirely new products like the Scout (from the Aries) have implemented very new design approaches.
TIme and time again, the past has proven to be a powerful and valuable watermark to further current technologies into the future. Case in point, The Classic. Similar design evolution in an interesting parallel can be drawn from a speaker like the Magneplanar 1.6. Many mods and customizations (x-overs and stands) over the years have also pushed Magnepan to integrate design evolution into innovation, and technology has provided the material. In this shared example, aluminium; where the frame on the speaker is new, but the technology in the drivers have undergone evolution as well as new design implementation. In the case of the VPI Classic, the platter, with other materials.
CMB is another huge design innovation (& evolution) that Clearaudio owns, and HP also agrees (recent RMAF keynote) that their approach on magenetic repulsion is very valid to audio technology, and the use of ceramics is a big landmark for them. This collective of improvements from a variety of manufacturers could lead to real breakthroughs in turntable design and implementation that people could look on this era as being very important for decades to come.
Well, time to stain the turntable... Man it's gonna look great!
I think one great area where VPI does deserve huge accolades is in it's modularity and customizibility. I have added various motors, bases and suspensions to my HW-19 over the past 20 years, at reasonable cost and time points. To be consistently refreshed with new parts or even slightly (or massively in some cases) improved parts, is a huge boon in staying current with the general level of investment I made long ago. Every 10 years there are small but very worthwhile upgrades or finishing techniques that propel a healthy need to bring various components to 'reference' spec for truly reasonable sums.
I also have restained and resealed several HW-19 turntable bases to my custom liking several times over the past 15 years. I have one in electric blue, one in golden oak, and one soon to be in Sedona Red! Being able to change the appearance with a better finish and gloss is a very welcome part of involvement in this hobby. To be able to retain a 25-year old turntable and keep it up to snuff to work and look like a vintage Porsche 911 Targa IS utterly heroic.
And, many of the optional upgrades here offered by VPI today, like the Periphery Clamp or the Rim Drive or the SAMA, are all truly innovations. Who was the first turntable company to 'disconnect' their motors in an outboard fashion? I think Verdier. But VPI did so at a much more reasonable price point for all existing HW-19 owners, over 15 years ago, as fully covered in TAS (#94), and Stereophile. Several new innovations were brought by VPI to the public then. Since then, several entirely new products like the Scout (from the Aries) have implemented very new design approaches.
TIme and time again, the past has proven to be a powerful and valuable watermark to further current technologies into the future. Case in point, The Classic. Similar design evolution in an interesting parallel can be drawn from a speaker like the Magneplanar 1.6. Many mods and customizations (x-overs and stands) over the years have also pushed Magnepan to integrate design evolution into innovation, and technology has provided the material. In this shared example, aluminium; where the frame on the speaker is new, but the technology in the drivers have undergone evolution as well as new design implementation. In the case of the VPI Classic, the platter, with other materials.
CMB is another huge design innovation (& evolution) that Clearaudio owns, and HP also agrees (recent RMAF keynote) that their approach on magenetic repulsion is very valid to audio technology, and the use of ceramics is a big landmark for them. This collective of improvements from a variety of manufacturers could lead to real breakthroughs in turntable design and implementation that people could look on this era as being very important for decades to come.
Well, time to stain the turntable... Man it's gonna look great!
Jeff, once in a while, the software here hangs up. If your browser keeps running after you've clicked the "Post Comment" button, just scroll back up and return to the forum home page and your post will go through. It works for me.
I own a Classic equipped with a Lyra Dorian. At first I placed it on a reasonably stiff shelf atop a sturdy rack. With the stylus on a non-rotating record a finger tap on the superstructure of the rack or a shelf was audible sufficient to swamp other noise during normal playback. I then moved the TT to an ESS rack from Stillpoints. Finger tap now is inaudible except very faintly when a tap is made adjacent to one foot of the TT on the supporting shelf. I can’t say what the Stillpoints ESS rack did for the TT’s overall sound alone, because the rest of the chain of reproduction was also placed on Stillpoints at the same time. The net effect is much greater dynamic swing against a quiet backdrop, and a huge sound space. Of course it matters what support is given the TT, and there are many other approaches, many less expensive. But the Stillpoints solutions are effective without adding a signature sound of their own. The Classic can be equipped with OEM Stillpoints replacing the stock feet. Or try placing the TT atop a Stillpoints Component Stand as others have with success.
The stock feet of the Classic do a very good job of protecting against breakthrough excited by the loudspeaker output. Another consideration entirely is how to isolate a TT from the effects of a weak floor. That most often requires a shelf with a suspension tuned to 2-4 Hz. Most people would choose to wall-mount a support for the TT when footfalls are a bother. I know one fellow who put a jack under the joists to support the floor adequately.
I didn’t find the VPI center weight able to produce a glass-flat surface when used with the peripheral clamp. Instead I use the rubber washer and threaded clamp supplied with the Classic in concert with the peripheral ring. I used a SOTA with vacuum hold-down for years.
Which SOTA table and arm were u using in the past?
Sota Star with Grado Laboratory Signature arm and Grado XTZ cartridge. Mod Squad power supply.
And you replaced the sota with the classic because it's better or is it just different? I'm considering between sota suspended vs classic non suspended. But not sure how much better theclassic is. Sotas have very long and good reputation.
For speed stability alone the VPI Classic is superior. The Sota never had a chance of equaling the Classic due to the lossy, longer belt and the platter bearing’s suspension on springs while the motor is fixed to the plinth. You will hear the difference. The Sota's vacuum hold-down is fussy in use, the slightest edge warp making a seal impossible to achieve. You have to keep the pump's noise from intruding on the listening area. The VPI peripheral ring flattens mild edge warps. Anything badly warped needs to be treated in a record flattener.
Flipping the SOTA belt 180 takes up whatever slack there is and actually improves the sound of a great 'table.
>> The Sota's vacuum hold-down is fussy in use, the slightest edge warp making a seal impossible to achieve. You have to keep the pump's noise from intruding on the listening area.<<
For what it is worth, I have never found the SOTA's vacuum hold down "fussy to use" and I have no problems achieving a seal against the table's supple rim seal, even with significantly warped records. The pump noise (such as it is) is easily dealt with by putting the pump unit behind a cabinet door. The noise is not a big issue in any case because once one obtains a flattened record and a low partial vacuum is secured, the pump automatically decreases in effort. It is the (even) application of atmospheric pressure upon a record as a clamp against both the rim seal and the platter that provides the coupling to the platter system. Consequently, there is no requirement to keep the pump working during play beyond a very modest maintanance level.
Bob Bubeck
My Sota vacuum platter is first generation, and the peripheral seal is shallow. I suspect Bob has the later, deeper seal which I've not had the pleasure of owning. Perhaps his pump is of later manufacture, too. In many cases there will be no "cabinet" near the turntable so one would have to take steps to closet the pump. I use an open rack to support my TT and equipment. I found the pump noise to be obtrusive and I'm happy to live without it. My overall point is that we've moved on, and I prefer an elegantly simple, somewhat less fussy solution to coupling the record to the platter. If I were spending the money today I'd choose a VPI Classic over a more expensive and less capable Sota.
This is a difficult argument to make because it sounds like I am pushing my products, which I am not. wW can not make enough tables for the demand so my salesman hat is not on at all, this is my audiophile hat.
I personally own a Thorens 124, a Thorens 125, a Micro Seiki DDX-1000, a Denon DP-80, a JVC-TT101, a Kenwood LO-7D, a Linn, an AR-XA, 7 Empires, 5 Rek-O-Kuts, blah, blah, blah. As an audiophile I know what all these tables sound like, they are all different and when properly rebuilt or worked on they can all sound wonderful and reproduce a good semblence of music. I have also owned a Goldmund and a Versa over the years also.
What I am getting at is, for the price of the Classic you wil get 97% of what is available from any deck in the world, new or used. You will pay through the nose for that last 3% which you may or may not be able to extract anyways depending on your system and setup capabilities. More importantly, most of these decks are made overseas so you are also paying for the importer, the transportation, the incredible dollar value loss (sorry to keep picking on SME but they make great stuff - do you really think it is worth $35K????). Is an Aston Martin DB-9 worth 200K?? I wouldn't pay that much money for it and I have one, that is the replacement cost now - insane!!!!
The SSM Rim Drive from 500 HZ down is better than the Classic, it is 3 times the price, actually it is better than most tables but requires careful setup, but once set stays that way. I can set up a Classic and get it to the 99% point is 20 minutes, I'm 61, that's all the time I want to spend on a table setup at the moment.
Roy Gregory has played with more tables than I have, HP has one of the best systems in the world, so does Fremer, what they say has meaning in the context of explaining what the table or other component sounds like. You do not have the ability to audition all this equipment, they do. The problem is you buy something they recommend, put the wrong cartridge, preamp, loading, etc on it and you expect the same results, it will not happen. I tell people all the time which cartridge to buy with each arm, they never listen!!! They go into the dealer and he sells them a Shelter on a JMW-9, bad, 4 months of playing to make it work right is no fun for anyone.
The Classic is all about great sound for the least amount of money and at the same time pushing the limit at any price up to 10K or more. I use the Classic in my second system with a totally rebuilt Marants 2275 receiver, a pair of rebuilt DQ-10 speakers, and a VAS step up transformer with a low output Dynavector. Less than 9K and absolutely amazing sound.
HW
Mr. Weisfeld;
All crazy/cynical/innappropriate allegations of hero-worship aside, I want to tell you how much I appreciate your participating in this thread. I have a Classic on order from a well known and highly respected retailer. I feel like an eight year old boy on 12/24 (well, not really, I'm Jewish, but you get the idea). You mention the frustration of having a retailer sell an inappropriate cartridge with the Classic. In addition to the Dynas, can you list some other cartridges you recommend? My particular retailer has rec'd the Benz Glider LO.
Not everying that can be counted counts, and not everything that should be counted can be.
This is a difficult argument to make because it sounds like I am pushing my products, which I am not. wW can not make enough tables for the demand so my salesman hat is not on at all, this is my audiophile hat.
I personally own a Thorens 124, a Thorens 125, a Micro Seiki DDX-1000, a Denon DP-80, a JVC-TT101, a Kenwood LO-7D, a Linn, an AR-XA, 7 Empires, 5 Rek-O-Kuts, blah, blah, blah. As an audiophile I know what all these tables sound like, they are all different and when properly rebuilt or worked on they can all sound wonderful and reproduce a good semblence of music. I have also owned a Goldmund and a Versa over the years also.
What I am getting at is, for the price of the Classic you wil get 97% of what is available from any deck in the world, new or used. You will pay through the nose for that last 3% which you may or may not be able to extract anyways depending on your system and setup capabilities. More importantly, most of these decks are made overseas so you are also paying for the importer, the transportation, the incredible dollar value loss (sorry to keep picking on SME but they make great stuff - do you really think it is worth $35K????). Is an Aston Martin DB-9 worth 200K?? I wouldn't pay that much money for it and I have one, that is the replacement cost now - insane!!!!
The SSM Rim Drive from 500 HZ down is better than the Classic, it is 3 times the price, actually it is better than most tables but requires careful setup, but once set stays that way. I can set up a Classic and get it to the 99% point is 20 minutes, I'm 61, that's all the time I want to spend on a table setup at the moment.
Roy Gregory has played with more tables than I have, HP has one of the best systems in the world, so does Fremer, what they say has meaning in the context of explaining what the table or other component sounds like. You do not have the ability to audition all this equipment, they do. The problem is you buy something they recommend, put the wrong cartridge, preamp, loading, etc on it and you expect the same results, it will not happen. I tell people all the time which cartridge to buy with each arm, they never listen!!! They go into the dealer and he sells them a Shelter on a JMW-9, bad, 4 months of playing to make it work right is no fun for anyone.
The Classic is all about great sound for the least amount of money and at the same time pushing the limit at any price up to 10K or more. I use the Classic in my second system with a totally rebuilt Marants 2275 receiver, a pair of rebuilt DQ-10 speakers, and a VAS step up transformer with a low output Dynavector. Less than 9K and absolutely amazing sound.
HW
Mr. Weisfeld;
All crazy/cynical/innappropriate allegations of hero-worship aside, I want to tell you how much I appreciate your participating in this thread. I have a Classic on order from a well known and highly respected retailer. I feel like an eight year old boy on 12/24 (well, not really, I'm Jewish, but you get the idea). You mention the frustration of having a retailer sell an inappropriate cartridge with the Classic. In addition to the Dynas, can you list some other cartridges you recommend? My particular retailer has rec'd the Benz Glider LO.
Not everying that can be counted counts, and not everything that should be counted can be.
I believe if you read the entire thread, that HW has recommended the Benz cartridges.
Mark
Cannot resist returning to this topic about once a month! Nothing changes really.....still the clinging on to 'certainties' that actually aren't certain at all. Still the same clinging on to reviewers whose opinions are just that...their opinions. They may match yours, they might not. either way, they never settle anything. Soon the over-reaction to the 'Classic' will settle-down; another deck (Sota?) will become flavour of the month. And so it goes on......cynical? Well, I would invite you to look at the evidence..
So, now you don't like suspended decks? I've been a SOTA fan for years. However, HW makes great turntables.
Mark
Was hoping someone would comment on whether the Gingko Clouds that worked so well with the Scout/Scoutmaster series are also recommended for the Classic. It seems like a much different suspension than the Scout series, but my Classic is on order and has not arrived yet so haven't had a chance to experiment.
Dave
I've had the Classic for just under a week. I could not be happier. I've never heard good recordings sound so good. It definitly highlights the difference between stellar and mediocre and poor recordings. I am using a Benz Glider. Bass is deep and authoritative, dynamics are amazing, and for the first time ever with vinyl I am getting a wide and enveloping soundstage. Using the table is a pleasure. I love the ergonomics of the on-off button on the left and the security of flipping the arm lock open and shut with the right in between flipping records and zerostatting, etc. The platter comes up to speed almost immediately and stops almost immediately. If I was to criticise anything at this point, it would be the weirdness of having a strand of monofilment hanging uselessly when not using the conventional anti-skate (I gather the collet anchoring the monofilment to the tonerarm can be removed after loosening a small set screw). And I worry quite a bit about all that weight potentially causing my wall mount rack to fall catastrophically in the middle of the night-to the point that I presently have an unsightly milk crate playing "spotter" under the rack. The unipivot, as practically everyone has noted, requires getting used to-the wobblies can be a bit unsettling (pun) at first. They are really only evident when cuing the record over to the lead in groove. One nice aspect of being unipivot is that the arm has a greater degree of what I call "free movement" up and away from the platter. This comes in handy when checking VTF with a clumsy digital scale and being able to rest the arm up and over, but still on top of the arm lock such that the cantilever is well away from danger. I couldn't be happier
Not everying that can be counted counts, and not everything that should be counted can be.
FSonic..Glad you are liking the Classic. .Are you using Benz Micro Glider S cart (newest version)? If so, which output version (L/M/H) and with what phono? Have you tried a different cart to see if the table/tonearm reveal a cart's different character? Thx
cmalak:
Have you purchased a Classic yet?
Still haven't heard them yet as my local VPI dealer has still not received them! They have been on order so hopefully over the next month or so.
Anyone know why my posts, other than this one, keep redirecting to ask.com?
Buggy software, they need to switch to vbulletin.
I can accept that but others are posting, obviously. Is there a word limit, I was trying to post something a little wordy when this occured?
Nope, it's the software.
Tried to repyl, same old crap. Enjoy, I am.
Any more reports on the Classic?
Hello,
I have the VPI Classic and I just purchased the SDS. I was wondering if it would be wise to place the SDS on on top of my Audio Research PH5 Phono Preamp? I would place the SDS on top of using vibrapod copes paired with the vibrapod isolaters.
My concern is the two power transformers that contain magnetic fields causing problem for the phono preamp.
Thanks,
Joe
Your concern is well-founded. Put the SDS far away from the phono stage and other gear in the signal path.
Thanks for the feedback, how far is far?
Joe
Move the PH-5, if it's too close, you'll probably hear it. I would get it as far away as possible.
So, have any of the original posters on this thread purchased this table yet?
No. Not in a rush. Waiting for Stereophile or TAS to review the table. Some hints have been given in both TAS and Stereophile.....i.e...that some reviewers have this table at hand, and they have briefly commented on the table, but no full review yet. May be we will see a review in the coming months and hopefully they will compare this table to other reference level table(s)/arm(s)..
Having been through this thread several times I applaud your bravery in admitting you are awaiting reviews before purchase. My advice, if you want one buy one. Considering the recent price increase and the ever increasing wait time I would say the hand writing is on the wall and reviewers are unlikely to add much of relevence at this point. I make no claim to golden ears but every LP played on the Classic just makes you want to pull out another and if you leave the listening area for any reason something immediately draws you back, What more can one ask of a playback device?
Can't post or double posts! Why me? Oh well.
This thread was started 3/7/2009 and you haven't purchased yet? You don't trust your own ears?
SundayNiagara, Did you purchase one yet? You have been following this for a while too... I do trust my ears. Infact I like many products that I hear but I don't go running to purchase everything as soon as its release date or thread posting date. I also don't purchase everything my ears like and thats a lot of things. Part of the pleasure is taking the time to listen to different equipments, reading reviews, researching, comparing what others find compared to what you find. Not everyother tom dick and harry are testing audioequipment out there....so the guys who do can give a good insight to what their experience was with different gear. Reviewers review lots of different products in a baseline system that they have and can offer lots of interesting information. To me its not about shopping....its the enjoying of music and the path that leads to it, research, reviewes, system matching, sound differences and how different people respond to the same thing. I am still in no rush to grab that latest gadget out there as quickly as possible.....even though its been since 3/7/2009 since this thread started. lol
I'm not in the market for a new 'table.
SundayNiagara, a point of curiosity, this thread contains upwards of 150 posts or replies of which about 30 are under you username. Except for a few apparently off the cuff comments and a few kind replies when I was having trouble posting almost all are "have you heard the Classic?" or "so, have you purchased a Classic yet?". Except for one confession of owning a Glodmund clamp there is no mention of what you use to spin vinyl. We know you respect VPI, greatly admire Sota and are a card carrying member of the ARC fan club. Beyond that the Goldmund clamp could be a paperweight. Are you conducting your own survey, stirring the pot to see what floats or sinks or just someone who enjoys forums? No offense, just curious, even the unlamented (proper suspension!) Paskinn went on about what he listens to.