Upgrading to Esoteric DAC and clock

danielaparker -- Sun, 02/07/2010 - 00:04

My current system consists of Amati Anniversario speakers, Boulder 865 integrated amplifier and Esoteric X-03 SE.

I'm interested in digital sources, so I'm thinking of getting the Esoteric D-07 DAC, which I auditioned at my dealer's today with Amatis and Boulder and a hard drive source through USB, as well as with an Esoteric P-05 transport. I'm also thinking about getting an Esoteric G-0Rb master clock, which made a fairly dramatic difference in the presentation with the hard drive source, and a noticable one with the transport. I listened to the G-03X as well, but not as big an effect.

My question is, should I keep the Esoteric X-03 SE, or trade it in for the P-05 transport? I can get full value for the X-03 with the trade-in, but since the X-03 was a demo unit at a steep discount, it would still cost me a couple of thousand dollars.

Also, while auditioning, I listened to the X-05 with and without a clock, to try and set a base. With the G-03X clock, listening to Neil Young's "War of Man" on the X-05, a guitar bend that was barely adudible before became very pronounced, the sound stage appeared to be moved forward a couple of feet. On the other hand, this effect, sound stage moving forward, was not noticable on the D-07+P-05 with G-03X. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Daniel

Robert Harley -- Mon, 02/08/2010 - 23:47

The degree of audible improvement rendered by a precision outboard clock will be highly dependent on the quality of the clocking in the DAC or CD player itself. Replacing a poor clock with a great clock will obviously introduce a larger improvement than replacing a very good clock with a great one.

danielaparker -- Tue, 02/09/2010 - 12:44

Robert,

Thank you for your comment. According to the specifications, the DAC-07 has an internal master clock,

"The internal master clock is also equipped with a dedicated power supply, thus minimizing effects caused by jitter .... The D-07’s 2nd PLL mode uses the built-in VCXO (Voltage
Controlled Crystal Oscillator) to act as a high clarity master clock for the DAC device. The two types of PLL circuits, each with different characteristics, effectively remove transmission jitter. If a signal is input from a device without WORD SYNC, the jitter
component that affects the sound quality is diminished..."

Being an Esoteric, albeit with a high number, I would assume this would qualify as being a reasonably good clock? And the G-0Rb presumably a great clock.

In listening with a variety of configurations, the biggest improvements from the external clocks were with the D-07 with USB input, as compared to the D-07 with P-05, and the X-05. The G-03X raised the level, but the G-0Rb raised it more.

Over the past couple of months, I've grown attached to my X-03SE (without clock). But seeing a digitally sourced future, I want the DAC-07 for sure, which appears to benefit significantly from the still rather expensive (for a demo with a scratch) G-0Rb. My dealer thinks I should keep the X-03 or trade-in for the transport, keep CD for serious listening, and go with the D-07 + G-03X for casual listening, and trade the G-03X in later when I'm "ready" for an upgrade. I don't know, I'm tempted to trade in the X-03 and go entirely with digital sources, making the D-07 as good as it can be with the G-0Rb.

Any further comments appreciated.

-- Daniel

bird -- Mon, 10/18/2010 - 09:07

It has variety of musical instruments...these are produce absolute sound effects...very nice post..

large wall clocks

fdgf

JLeeMD -- Tue, 02/09/2010 - 15:30

Daniel,
I have the Esoteric X-05 and am considering adding the Esoteric G-03X Master Clock. Could you expand a little on your experience with this combo with and without the clock?

danielaparker -- Tue, 02/09/2010 - 19:58

First of all, I'm a novice at this, so interpret anything I say carefully. All I can say is that when I listened to the X-05 with the G-03X clock, at my dealer's, playing Neil Young's "War of Man", the sound stage moved forward a couple of feet, also noted by an audio rep who was listening with me. It was not subtle, a guitar bend that was barely adudible without the clock became very pronounced. We repeated this test a few times, with the same result.

This was the only test we did that appeared to affect the sound stage, the tests with the D-07/P-05, and with the D-07/USB source showed various levels of improvement with the two clocks, with the D-07/USB source showing the biggest improvement, the biggest improvement of all with the G-0Rb (I didn't listen to the 05 with the G-0Rb.)

The rest of the equipment was Amati Anniversario speakers and Boulder 865 integrated amp, which is what I have at home. It's going to be a few weeks before I'm ready for a home audition, with the X-03SE compared to a digital source, but at the end of that I should have a better understanding.

I was hoping that somebody in this forum could comment on whether it would be expected that an external clock affect the sound stage.

danielaparker -- Tue, 02/09/2010 - 20:23

JLeeMD,

I tried to respond, but got a message that my post had been automatically rejected as inappropriate content. I give up, that's happened to me now three times in a week, I'm not going to post anymore. But I don't have much to add to my original comment.

yasman (not verified) -- Wed, 03/24/2010 - 11:05

Daniel; i am curious.
Have you tested the Esoteric x-03se against D-07 with same transport?
I have the x-03 myself, therefore the question.....

Paul

danielaparker -- Thu, 03/25/2010 - 19:20

Paul, no, I have an X-03se myself, but there wasn't one in the store when I auditioned the D-07.
My current plan is to build my own small footprint "silent PC" with a Lynx card, and connect to an Esoteric DAC via XLR connectors, externally clocking the Lynx card from the DAC or master clock, using a cable with a single HD26 connector on one end, two XLR connectors on the other and one BNC (word clock) connector.
Since this stratgey doesn't use USB, I'm thinking of getting a D-05 instead of a D-07, since I understand that the D-05 is a higher quality DAC. Once I have the computer, I'm going to try a number of combinations, including the D-07 and D-05, my computer and my X-03se, and the Esoteric master clocks.
The decision I'll have to make is whether to keep the X-03se or trade it in and go entirely with computer sourced music. I'll have to wait and see how everything sounds, to see if that's an easy or a hard decision.
-- Daniel

yasman (not verified) -- Fri, 03/26/2010 - 08:27

Daniel, in my experience, yot wont get the same quality with pc music as esoteric transport can deliver.
But i was curious to know if the outboard dac was better than the one in the x-03 se..............
I love the player, but if i can get even more, i wouldnt say no.... but the dealer tells me that if i want sacd i cant use the esoteric as transport. This actuallu doesnt matter as most of my cds are redbook, so i will test another dac my self soon to test if it is any reason to make another buy!
Paul

gfrench (not verified) -- Fri, 03/26/2010 - 09:19

perhaps you could afford paying the price for an esoteric orb clock But you could too buy the extremely good grimm audio clock and buy mexcel digital cables lessloss power cable and a high quality power conditioner . Along my own experience it is a really better choice .

yasman (not verified) -- Sun, 05/30/2010 - 13:11

gfrench, i have more and more given it a thought to buy the Grimm cc1 and power it up with my esoteric x-03se; i have powerconditioner and good cables; need only the bnc. What do you think? Will i get even more details and debt; room around the instruments?
P.

John Renzetti -- Tue, 07/06/2010 - 06:15

A few months ago I added the Esoteric G-03X clock to my X-01/D2. I believe the 01/D2 internal clock is rated at 3/ppm while the G03X is .1/ppm. The clock did make an improvement in the sound which was already outstanding. (even got a "wow" from my wife who doesn't really care about all this). The overall sound just was just more detailed to give the simplest description. I had a friend who writes for 6moons check out the system and he agreed the clock did make an improvement. I've also expiremented with different settings on the clock-44,88,176 and 100kHz and depending on the format the sound can be better or worse at a given setting.

billy.armstrong... -- Thu, 07/08/2010 - 13:11

There's a great piece on 6moons comparing the x-03se to the p-05/d-05 which really nails the differences between the two options. i don't have much experience of the difference the clocks make but I can say I much prefer the P-05/D-05 to either the X-01D2 or even the more expensive DAC/Transport combos.
The newer designed 32bit DAC creates the best sound I've ever heard from CD (Gryphon's Mikado Signature uses the same AKM design and is also exceptional). Oddly enough the basic X-03se still remains a contender in my book, because with rock/pop/electronic music it really boogies better than any other player I've heard. Undoubtedly though it's not as nuanced tonally or spatially as the P-05/D-05 and I think for long term satisfaction the D-05 DAC would probablyl be the more rewarding. But be aware the 'basic' X-03se is still hard to beat... even for a lot more money.