Unknown Sound

Jack -- Sat, 01/16/2010 - 08:18

After listening to Getz/Gilberto SACD featuring Antonio Carlos Jobim and Norman Granz's Jam Sessions CD (The ballads mostly) for several months I keep hearing a sound I cannot identify. It occurs, usually at the end of the various tenor sax chords and sounds "like" sand paper rubbing on a board or brick. It also sounds bit like someone walking on gravel. At first I thought it was my audio equipment(ampliflier clipping or limitations in my spearkers) but I have upgraded these components and still hear the same unknown sound.
Has anyone listened to this music that can tell me what I am hearing?

Thanks,
Jack

Carlos Souza -- Mon, 01/18/2010 - 18:58

I believe that is the throaty/raspy sound pioneered by Ben Webster. One makes it by blowing softly at the end of a musical phrase, with just enough pressure to sound like a sexy singer exhaling (like Diana Kral or Julie London), not enough air to make the reed vibrate.
If you hear distortion on this sound, the digital artifacts may be caused by a CDR or compressed/mp3 recording.

Jyerkes (not verified) -- Sat, 01/23/2010 - 09:00

Carlos,

Thanks for the reply. You have solved part of the puzzle for me..!I hope to do some more listening today and "see" what I can ascertain further. The music source I am listening to is SACD and redbook CD but wonder if some of the sound I am hearing is from the orginal recording tapes..?

Again, Thanks

Jack Yerkes

Carlos Souza -- Sat, 01/23/2010 - 13:06

Hello Jack. The sound is certainly in the master tapes, but it does not bother me. I have four versions of this recording, including vinyl. Many microphones of that era had a tipped-up high-frequency response, so the recording is a bit "hot". More treble is not a big deal for me, but distortion is certainly a nuisance.
Some systems are particularly sensitive to sibilance or any other sound with lots of random high-frequency content, like the trumpet, sax "breathing" and vocal sibilance. The broad & strong high-frequency spectrum of this kind of signal excites a resonance somewhere in the system, I hear magnified sibilance/harshness.
In my experience, this noise/distortion is more pronounced if the system has metal dome tweeters, silver cabling or an "universal player", because the video processors inside the player pollute the audio stream with radio frequency garbage (RFI). Also, some high-feedback solid state amps (including some Class D amps) do not like sibilance at all.
If your system has any of the above, you may want to consider a change to speakers with silk dome tweeters, copper-based cables, a dedicated audio-only player or a more forgiving amplifier.
I hope this helps

Jyerkes (not verified) -- Wed, 01/27/2010 - 18:06

Carlos,

Thanks! Once Again!

This particular sound we have been communicatng about does not bother me either. I was just curious about it! Wonder if others were hearing some of the same sounds and attempting to learn more about recordings and audio equipment. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me-it has been a big help.
The equipment I use is Reference 3A Grand Veenas, VTL Tube Amp and a Marantz CD/SACD player. I do hear some of the reed sound you mentioned and at times wonder if I was hearing the"brush" on cymbals at the end of the tenor sax notes/chords but have mostly rules this out. The Veenas are really revealing which has led me to believe a portion of this sound is distortion of some sort. I was trying to put my finger on this "odd" sound as coming from the orginal tapes, my equipment or music source-CD/SACD. Or all three..! I guess you could add in the Sax itself.

Again, Thanks for the Help!

Jack Yerkes

Carlos Souza -- Wed, 01/27/2010 - 23:38

You are very welcome!
You may want to try more forgiving/ less bright NOS input tubes in your VTL amps. I find that Philips Holland, Valvo and 60's Amperex do not emphasize harshness neither muffle the sound quality, they are very linear devices, even-handed tubes designed by Philips Holland...at the time (60s and 70s) they were used in most of the best classical studios.
By comparison, the standard russian VTL tubes have a certain "bite'.
Also, Difraction Begone felt pads are a God send for slightly bright speakers / rooms. This simple and inexpensive tweak tames treble edge difraction and room reflections, which skew the in-room response towards the treble.
The Murata super tweter is a piezo device and may have strong out-of-band treble resonances as most piezo tweeters, so every little bit of dispersion control helps (just a hunch, not an actual experience with Murata tweeters).
http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html
http://www.diffractionbegone.com/index.html
I use home-made felt pads and am delighted with the more natural in-room tonal balance.
Your Marantz CD player is certainly not the cause of this issue, Marantz players are well-behaved in the treble
Good luck!