TW Acustic Raven Or SME
AG1 -- Thu, 08/06/2009 - 07:57
I am in the market for a new turntable. Currently I own a VPI SSM with RIM Drive and am looking to upgrade.
I have heard and liked the SME20/12 with the new 12" series V arm. I have also read very good things about the TW Acustic Raven AC3. I was wondering if anyone has heard both tables, or has an idea on how the Raven sound would compare to the SME sound.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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Have had this thought also and looked into the real world for them. Raven-3 is by by a single small family shop in Europe; available from only 1 source in NYC. SME is a medium-sized real company in Britain; with other lines of business and an extensive dealer network in place for decades. Which would be more likely to have service and support for you when sentient MP players rule the world and turntables become the new wax cylinder Victrolas?
On the future, I can think of many companies far larger and diversified than SME and its parent company that no longer exist today.
On the present, your local dealer will need to send your unit back to the factory anyway so what's the difference? That is unless you're one of the lucky few who has a dealer that is officially certified to do repairs.
Construction wise, as moving parts go the AC3's bearing looks like it will outlive us all while the SME's rubber band towers won't. What will probably go sooner than both of these are the microprocessor speed controllers or the motors themselves. Both companies use them so that would be a draw.
Thanks for all your comments. The size of the company behind the product is of course when consideration, but so is price. The SME I am considering would be the 20/12, which if I am not mistaken will cost more than the Raven AC3. Also however, I am curious to know the differences in sound, if anyone has heard both. I am familiar with the SME 20/12, but not with the Raven AC3.
On the present, your local dealer will need to send your unit back to the factory anyway so what's the difference?
I think that was what the comment was about: will there be a factory to send the unit back to?
I bought an LP12 in 1981 and used it until 2 years ago. During all that time, I have received impeccable service from Linn. They have even sent me, free of charge, a whole set of spares: belt, springs, oil, grommets, lid hinges etc.. after about 20 years of use! I had looked at other turntables then, before settling on the Linn: a couple of the manufacturers still exist, both of them had a rebirth in the last few years.
I think the longevity and support in future is a valid consideration.
I think these points are rather important, and have influenced me, in ending up with SME products.
There are no guarantees in life, but SME have been around more than fifty years and seem to go from strength to strength; not least because they have a range of other engineering products to rely on (vital as turntable business slowly declines, as it will). Having used an SME 30 for ten years without needing to replace a single rubber band (neither has anyone else I have come across) I think the point about the SME not being as 'survivable' as a cottage industry product is just..er, silly. Especially as you could, if need be, get such bands made up, if needed in fifty years time. I have owned lots of turntables over the last forty years, the SME are comfortably the best made and best supported. And they will continue to be. The 12 inch versions (I now use a 30-12 as a sixtieth birthday present to myself)) sound just fabulous. Any minor distinctions between them, and , say, the Raven (no doubt very good indeed) will swiftly seem quite irrelevant. The SME will be performing in a league way above the rest of your vinyl equipment (no cartridge is a patch on the neutrality of an SME). That may all sound rather prejudiced; all I can say is it is based on hard , expensive, experience. Cottage industry vinyl is becoming too risky.....and tends to be over-praised as part of the endless 'flavour of the month' habit within hi fi. Novelty is great, handmade is great, but at what cost?
Dear Peter,
Thank you for the thoughtful comments. You raise one of the main factors that will influence my decision making process, especially since vinyl is a dying medium (despite the recent resurgence), and I intend this acquisition to be the last table that I buy.
Peter
I would not worry about the Company size . Both make fine product , Both could be repaired by a competent tech , The SME has more parts that could need replacement, However if your goal is music . Something that has been mine for 35 year, Then I would wonder more about the sound . Your will live with either of these for many .. many years. To my Digital friends ,how many of your cd players are still working 7 years later. I have many working tables over 30 years old, match that my friend. Also I love the black because of all the great music I have that you don't! Why I would choose the TW is the sound . Having owned both tables there is no question which has better speed accuracy (TW).
But it is the rich harmonics , the wider micro dynamic presentation and better imaging that makes this a easier decision for me.Your selection of arms will make a huge difference . The SME is a great arm . But there are others that totally outpreform it . The Kuzma 4pt , Wheaton , Frank S new arm and others. Without this matchup who knows? Then what cartridge are you going to use. First and foremost a turntable is a system within itself.I travel for the audio business . I see most stores and hear there systems. The biggest problem today in vinyl is a good setup . That single guy in New York can outset up most dealers I know.
Good Luck as most people will need it to get there monies worth.
Hi Peter, I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the 30/2 vs the 30/12 (congrats on 60 and especially that table/arm :) !!
I used a 20/2 IV.Vi arm for 8-9 years and recently went to a Grand Prix Audio Monaco/TriPlanar. It's a nice set up to and I do like the direct dive. I does outperform (in some aspects) my former SME 20/2, as it should for the differnence in $$'s. The SME has a sense of rightness and foundation that is hard to match (maybe that's your nuetrality in my words)
Thanks in advance. I do know several that have the 20/12 and It's a special table also.
Oldaudiodude: Having owned several arms, Linn, SME, and now Triplanar. I am not sure I'd say others "totally outperform" I feel it's more a system matching type of thing. A SME arm on a SME table is tough to beat. I've also heard a SME 312s on a Technics SP 10 mk III that will take your breath away. The cartridge plays heavy in the match equation to. Just my opinion. I do very much enjoy my current triplanar...
I did give some details of how I found the standard 30 against the 30-12 in an earlier post; but essentially the 12inch deck is a bit smoother and more 'sumptuous' sounding. That wonderful sense of 'rightness' that SME decks can convey is there, and even more so. Don't get me wrong, the standard 30 is still lovely, but the bigger new deck is just a bit special. That sense of 'ease' which I find so attractive becomes even more obvious, and the ability of the deck to somehow supress vinyl noise is a bit greater . I don't want to over-emphasise these issues, but the differences are there.I understand that as well as the extra mass, and extra suspension bands to compensate, there are also changes within the hydraulic towers, with slighter larger 'vanes' and a different viscosity. It seems to all add up.
I have tried the deck with both a standard 9inch series five and the new 12 inch five (which I now use). Using the 'old' 9inch arm the differences between the standard 30 and the bigger version are still there, although the effects are less marked (in other words, the improvements to the bigger deck are not just because of the longer arm.) What the 9 inch version does offer is superior dynamics..the deck sounds a touch faster, but less smooth and sumptuous. I think some people will prefer the 9 inch, some the 12. inch arm. Either way, the 30-12 costs a lot more, but does offer some advantages to compensate.
One final point, the change was not so expensive for me( !) because I had a standard 30 to trade-in,and I live in the UK. If I were starting from scratch, I would be tempted by the 20-12, which is a lovely lovely deck. A tiny bit less 'weight' but rather gorgeous. And prettier too! But the 30-12 is the ultimate in the SME range. Well, that's my attempt at being a 'reviewer'.
I can second the comments about the 20/12. I am using it that with a V-12 arm and it is absolutely superb in every way.