Tube versus Solid-State?
dshlapak -- Wed, 12/20/2006 - 10:42
Hey, I know this is a chestnut, but (1) that seems seasonally appropriate (though I hope not to find myself verbally roasted over an open fire), and (b) I really need to tap into your collective wisdom.
I'm looking to upgrade my two-channel setup (when I started, a cheeeeeep Toshiba DVD player feeding a Rotel RSX-965 receiver and Definitve BP8B speakers--yeah, it used to be the heart of my home-theater system). I've already switched out the source to a Music Hall cd25.2 player, which in and of itself has upped the quality of the sound remarkably.
In terms of speakers, I'm all over the map, mainly 'cause I haven't had the time/opportunity to audition many. Everything from the Monitor Silver RS6 to the Gallo Reference 3.1 is in play. Any thoughts on speakers, preferably in the sub-$2K range (but, obviously, my limit is slightly flexible) are invited (imaging, soundstaging, and transparency are paramount; bass and treble extension, and pure "loudness" are not), but that's not my main question here.
Oh, my listening room is fairly small-about 12x14, with eight-foot ceilings. It will be renovated next year so I will have some control over its acoustics, but the size is what the size is.
OK, so here's the nub on my gist. I hate harshness; these aging ears just can't deal with it. I mean, it verges on the physically uncomfortable. When I auditioned the Monitors, they sounded great, but at times seemed to have a bit of an edge to 'em. None of the reviews I've read indicated any problems like that, so I was wondering if the amp might have had something/everything to do with it. The shop was driving 'em with a Krell 400i; is that a particularly "solid-state" or "analytical" sounding amp? Would something like a Creek or Rega be "smoother"? Or should I be looking at something like a Prima Luna Prologue Two to get some "tube-y" goodness? The sound I want is three-dimensional, precise, and transparent, but not "edgy".
As an FYI, I'm a guitarist and am familiar with how the tube/solid-state thing works in that context, but I've never owned a piece of tube hi-fi equipment so I recognize that not only am I ignorant I may have to unlearn some prejudices. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, and happy holidays to all.
Cheers.
--- das
Unfortunately, I think it is hard to generalize about tube vs solid state. That is to say, there is as much difference between some solid state amps on the harshness dimension as there is between the average tube and ss amp. I've been using the tube VTL IT 85 for example, and to me it strikes a nice balance. It seems quite transparent but not harsh. But I would also say that of my favorite amp around $1000, which is the Naim Nait 5i (solid state).
I would also consider working on sources as much as amps.
I would also say, don't forget class D. Amps using the Hypex modules seem to work well for folks with your taste.
I have just discovered the perfect answer via an indirect route. Toob bufferin' - no NOT the aspirin! Since getting a VP129 phono preamp and experimenting with toobs I decided I wanted same for everything else - for next to nothing of course! The MF X-10D and it's successors were too expensive. Recently, I had a 220V overage in my home - NOT recommended for electronic health! My VP 129 had to go back to Rolls/Bellari...search round for a cheapo substitute. found an ART DeeJayPreII for 35bucks on ebay. Didn't expect too much(VP129 is Class B remember). Hooked it up, slapped(I mean placed the records reverentially upon the playing surface!) on the test LPs and took a break to remove jaw from floor. This thing was an order of magnitude better in every respect except - of course - tube warmth.
Who ARE These people and what elso do they have?!? Well they're Pro-Audio people - the sort that use XLR balanced connections as standard - for a start; and don't charge an arm and a leg for a 10cent item! They had these nice little Tube MP microphone amplifiers, conveniently using the same 12AX7 tube as the VP129 and I had a quartet of Electro-Harmonix to plug in. Perfect: except the MP's are mono, so two are required. Hunted round for best prices; Musician's Friend doing 'em @$30 each and an nice interconnect for RCA/TRS connections: $68 out ze door! Used it first on my OPPD UD player(first digital player I can afford and like). Deelighted: especially with the holographic stereo imaging which was unexpected, and an almost "live" quality to the sound: 'course that could be my Maggies appreciating the input! Plus of course, that wonderful tube warmth. for the first time I spent more than an hour listening to my digital discs and REALLY enjoying the MUSIC therefrom. Tried the same with the phono preamp and once more: for a mere $95, the $250 Bellari was outperformed and became history @ Audiogon! I now have the units beween my B&K pre and Pwr amps. The versatility is such that one can put these anywhere and enjoy the best of both worlds. By putting them between sources & pre-amp, one can record the tube warmth to tape or CD to have the tube sound on your jogs! Recommended for those who value music above audio perfection. And for a mere $68 who can go wrong?!
I do believe a tube buffer is a good remedy fior a mediocre or poor implemented DAC system or CD player then the tubes will sweeten the load a bit.
Now if you have a very good CD player or an excellent DAC you are best to use tubes form that point on and leave the buffer for another stage.
Put and Audible Illusions preamp and a Chinese made Yaqin MC-10B amplifier (30 watts PC of Triode Sweetness or 60 beefy and ayuthoritative watts on Untralinear mode, then you will see what tubes can really do without spending a fortune on components.
A good tubed preamp will indeed make things a lot beter and will open up your ears (and eyes),
Even some of the integrated amplifiers of the new generation that have a tubed preamp stage gain are wonderful and full bodied sounding.
All the good stuff, stake depth, width, air around the instruments, now the question do you have a speaker capable of repuducing all those details??
I used to think I did until I found a small and obscure manufacturer of (not cheap) speakers in australia called WHT (Wide Horn Technologies) they're medium range speaker is absolutely stunning, though you don't spend the money ona super expensive amplifier you can buy a good pair of speakers.
Good cables are of the essence also, especially the interconnects and speaker cables.
I hope this helps;
God Bless!;
Gonzalo
Another suggestion: the harshness you are experiencing could be caused by the room itself. Several years back I was experiencing an edge in my tube (!) system that was cured with a set of Echo Buster Corner Busters. They are a relatively inexpensiive acoustic treatment that easily attaches to the ceiling corners of your room. Your room is as important as any other component in your system.
Sue
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