The Beatles Remasters on Vinyl
Neil Gader -- Wed, 11/04/2009 - 16:40
It's official (thanks Firedog). Apple Records announced to Mojo that the Beatles catalog will be released on vinyl one more time. The day and date haven't been stated and there no are details like prices, individual or deluxe box sets, mono etc. I'd like to know what everyone thinks of this. Can Apple be trusted to do this correctly or will they expedite the discs to market without regard for exceedlingly high expectations of the audiophile community? For example, do you think they will cut from the digital or truly return to the original analog masters? Will they go 180 gram or 200 gram vinyl? Looking forward to hearing from everyone.
Hi, Neil.
As you know, I own all the pristine Early Parlophones, and have the stereo CD remaster box.
I am very fond of both, and feel that the "team" gave us a great set, with the stereo box, and I am generally very happy with the sound. Comparing to the early LP's, they sound really true to them, with some differences, usually very minor, and even some anomolies fixed like a few dropouts, but always remaining true to the music. I even prefer the Capitol (yikes!) CD version of "Rubber Soul", as I like the feel of the running order a bit better and it has a more acoustic feel to the whole listen, and, it was from the original stereo mix, not the digital remix (with the mono version thrown in..'ya listening, Apple/Capitol!!) As far as what Capitol did to "improve"..i.e ruin!, a number of songs for the US market, don't get me started on that!
This new vinyl effort seems like the "marketing machine" at work, still, wanting to sell us yet another set of the music, kinda like they do in the film side of the house (how many "Terminator 2"s" must we have!!!)
As far as the source, I bet they will be the digital copies of the analog masters, maybe the remastered digital masters. We will have to see on that.
I am truly an analog lover, generally liking LP's, but I won't buy into this, as I feel with having both the originals and the box, I have it all.
Maybe for someone who doesn't have all the originals, a way to get new pristine copies on vinyl, but not for me!!!
As always, "Enjoy!".
Mike
VinylGuy
Points well taken. I'm envious of your collection. However, I think you are more the exception than the rule out there. Many of us-I believe- would either like to fill in a collection or merely own the last "statement" vinyl from Apple itself. Nonetheless, there are many pitfalls for Apple to avoid as they approach this. I think that any vinyl reissues will be subject to even greater scrutiny than the digital discs. The Beatles on vinyl already has a rich and storied history not to mention terrific sound in many instances. This was not the same road that the digital remasters had to follow-they only had to improve on the 1987 reissues. Except for a handful of dedicated analog people like ourselves few buyers probably spent much time comparing them to vinyl (if they even had playable vinyl any longer). I think Apple will find an analog audience to be more highly critical with expectations far exceeding those of the digital buyer. If the pressing stinks (noisy, or full of pops) they will be in for a world of hurt. Apple either goes in all the way, first class, or they shouldn't proceed.
Finally, on your point about marketing-I wonder how much they expect to make and if they are judging the market correctly. Analog while resurgent is still not what we could call a market force. It's a digital audio world, discs or downloads. Sure there is a buying audience but depending on pricing I'm not sure how many would cough up, let's say $500 for the vinyl box, $1000?? I realize for many it will be a vanity purchase or for collecting only but still money is money and vinyl pressings and packaging are vastly more expensive than CDs.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
My reading between the lines of the publicity: the vinyl releases will be based on the 192 digital copies of the original master tapes.
Since they apparently digitized everything, they could do a TOTALLY new mix in digital and try to get it to have a similar, but improved, sound to the original vinyl. Very tough to do. So I bet they will just tweak a 192 copy of the original masters.
If they take enough time I think they could come up with something outstanding. But of course, the "original vinyl" purists won't like it in any case.
I personally would like a totally new remix (similar to the great stuff done on the Yellow Submarine DVD) but I doubt they have the balls or want to devote the resources needed for this.
I'm pretty happy with the CD remasters, so I won't be buying unless they do the full remix.
Based on the marketing so far, I bet they will sell it as premium vinyl in high end packaging, box set only. 14 albums, so I'm guessing $500 or $600 for the box.
Neil is right. The audience for this is the high end analogue crowd, people who tend to be very knowledgeable/critical and have high end sound systems. To be well received, the pressings will have to be very good and the sound will have to not only be very good, but also "sound like" analogue.
BTW, I think individual releases of some of the LP's could sell very well, but it doesn't seem that this is the route Apple is going.
Good mornig.
I agree, Neil, that the vinyl expectations will be very high, and Apple should do it completely right, or not at all.
Firedog says they will be sourced from the new 24 bit/196K digital masters, which should sound very good, if done right. I wonder, however, if the LP sector, like me, would rather have the vinyl sourced from the analog masters. That would, I am sure, add considerably to the cost, due to the labor involved re-doing all the analog masters, and would it really be better than the 24/196K?
I will be interested to hear their results, and to compare the new LP's to the CD's, and to the original British LP's.
The new CD's do sound great, but there are still some areas the Parlophones better them...listen to the twangy guitar in "Words Of Love", and the LP sounds more like the tubed guitar amp, and conveys the bite a bit better.
Still, as always, great discussions.
Enjoy.
Mike
VinylGuy
Mike,
I believe mastering engineer legend Doug Sax commented a few years ago of the reasons why a digital master sounds superior when transferred to vinyl than to compact disc. The same would hold true for a high rez 24-bit/192kHz master, probably even more so. It does seem ironic that if Apple doesnt go the full analog to analog route (and chooses the digital to analog) that we will be likely to hear the high rez masters played back first not on a digital player but via a turntable.
I still think they will seriously consider going back to the original analog tapes. the reason being the potential backlash from vinyl purists. For them, it will always leave the question unanswered about how good a true modern AAA vinyl pressing (as opposed to an ADA pressing) can sound.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
Neil-
I think it would be funny if they did the LPs as ADA, but didn't let it be known. Would the vinyl purists detect the digital source without being clued in?
I know this could never actually happen, but it would be an interesting experiment.
Hi, Neil.
Interesting point about the Beatles catalog first being presented on High-Rez being not on a digital platform, but an LP platform.
Shows where we stand, these days on the High-Rez formats and where our interests are.
In the Sunday Oregonian, today, and ad from Fred Meyer, a local all-in-one chain of stores, with groceries, home improvement, electronics, etc, had an ad for vinyl LP's! Hmmm, I have not seen any ads for SACD's??
Interesting, indeed, how "mainstream" vinyl seems to be these days, isn't it?
Enjoy
Mike
VinylGuy
So why not release the 24/192 in its high rez format?
The market for that may be small right now but if they already have the master,
it would not cost them nearly as much as reissuing vinyl.
I suppose market for 24/192 is still considerably smaller than vinyl but
it can only grown, right?
Don't worry.
They will let our pocketbooks recover a bit after all these fall/Christmas/LP releases, and then release the Hi-rez digital remasters. I say in a year or two, when the sales of the CD's/LP's fall off in a big way.
firedog,
I agree that they are going to want to recoup all their costs before mounting another campaign for another format. Also there just isn't much market awareness for high-rez (but a lot of confusion!) while everyone knows what vinyl is, even if they don't listen to it. I think Apple would like to see more players capable of decoding hi-rez audio out there before making the commitment. With Blu-ray players dropping below $200, this could be the holiday season that gets the ball rolling. Or, maybe not.
I also wonder whether they might be looking to make their play with hi-rez dowloads and perhaps completely bypass optical disc formats. It all kind of depends on whether Blu-ray becomes a popular format or just a niche for videophiles.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
I think Apple sees one last opportunity to market vinyl to the largest record buying generation, the Baby Boomers. Even in these tough economic times, empty nesters have more disposable income than most other people. The high-res stuff will inevitably find a market in some form but Apple might see the current moment as vinyl's last gasp. And even though vinyl will be more costly, they can charge what they want and the LP collectors will pay. Boy oh boy, will they pay.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
So we don't we try and "influence" this process and send a letter signed by The Abolsute Sound and it's readership?
You could draft the letter, post it for comment. Then have anyone who wants to "electronically sign" the letter and TAS sends on our collective behalf.
I'd even commit to buying, and commit to pay more if the produce it in the best format. This begins to equate to a sales forecast from a critical group of listeners and Beattles fans...
John,
an interesting idea. I'll bring it up with the powers-that-be later this week.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
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