Suggestions for main speakers needed.....
BA. -- Sun, 11/25/2007 - 20:46
Hi everyone,
I'm in the market for my first 'real' set of main speakers. They will probably see 60/40 music/HT useage.
I have a Denon 3803 receiver which I think is 120w x 5ch. (maybe 7), Denon 2900 DVD/CD and a dBX 3bx.
For speakers I used to have old Infinity SM120's which were good for loud R&R but I sold them becuase they seemed too big at the time.
I now change between some old Polk Audio Monitor 5's and some equally old PSB 50 MKII's. Neither of them can handle loud music well, but they have good tonal qualities for HT.
For bass I have a PSB Subsonic 7 that I picked up at a great price.
I'm overwhelmed with choices and being in Dayton Ohio doesn't leave me a lot of great places to do much comparison. I expect to be buying via Ebay or an audio forum 'for sale' section.
I'd like to spend between $400 - $750 and I had been thinking that buying USED would allow me to buy slightly higher end speakers than a new set.
The B&W 685's have a lot of press, but I also did like my buddies Klipsch RP-5's when he had them cranked up. They held up well.
Any advice for my price range?
Thanks!
I've found some uold B&W DM3000's in my price-range and also some old PSB Stratus Goldi that might be in my price range.
What do you think of those two systems? Are the DM3000's too old, even though they were high end for their time? (1985 I think)
Hi BA,
I was blown away by the B&W 685's. At $600, they're right in your price range. I'm strongly considering buying them myself in the next month or so. I am going to check out the Paradigm Studio 20 v4 if I have the chance, but I really can't afford them. I would love to audition Maggie's, but my room is way too small and my amp not powerful enough.
Check out the current issue of TAS I would go with the Maggies that were favorably reviewed. The ones available only by mail order from the company. Save your money then by a second set for yout HT along with a maggie center speaker. And then save your money and get REL subwoofer and your set.
Sheepherder
Shenandoah Valley, VA
I made it to an upscale audio retailer today!!
I got to hear the B&W 685's for a good 45 minutes using varying types of music and an Eagles DVD.
I must say, the little $600 685's sounded SUPERB to my ears for their vocal reproduction, acoustic guitars and clarity. Beautiful, beautiful speaker for the home theater for the average enthusiast IMHO.
The downside: Well, they obviously NEED a subwoofer in a complete, well rounded system.
Also, after prolonged listening with various music CD's, I thought they were lacking a bit of upper-midrange for my tastes.
I then listened to some B&W 703's and 704's and naturally they were better and to me sounded "fuller", I found myself growing fonder of the Paradigms next to them. (Monitor 90's and Reference 100s)
I did not think the Paradigms were as soft and warm for vocal-only stuff but I did find them clear, tight and true. Perhaps not a fair test for a $600 speaker vs a $900 Monitor 9 but oh well.
What I really liked about the 2 Paradigms was that they sounded more "full-range" to me. I heard more in the mid/upper-midrange that the B&W 685's didn't have.
I believe some folks have referred to that as more "in your face" compared to the B&W but honestly, that can be mis-construed.
The 685's were like velvet, the Monitor 9's more like, umm, really nice velour,...or, umm, a really soft sweater? thick, cotton sweats? Lambswool? I shoulda started with something other than velvet...
Anyway, I went in the store thinking 60% B&W/40% Paradigm for my <$1000 price range.
After 2 hrs of listening to various music and the DVD, I'm pretty sold on the Paradigm.
Next up, look for some Paradigm Studio Reference 60's., my buddies Klilpsch RP5's and hopefully I can find some PSB dealer or another good audio store with other makes like you guys have mentioned.
Hi BA,
If you're looking for "main" speakers in a HT setup then you should probably consider floorstanders, either dynamics or Maggie's.
I am personally looking into Magnepans right now, but there is a lot of ambiguity regarding power requirements. With a multi-channel HT receiver you'd be taking a big risk plugging in a pair of Maggie's.
As for the midrange of the 685, at least from what I heard, the 685's had a magical upper-midrange; that's precisely one of the areas where they excel, being exceptional budget 2-way minis. Where were they positioned? What was driving them? What was the source player? In the end, though, they are $600 bookshelves, so they will not be able to do some of the things you hear from a good $900 speaker (50% more expensive) or certainly from a Reference model. I challenge you to listen to the flagship B&W 683 against a similarly-priced Paradigm.
The B&W 7-series is no longer competitive and in desperate need of an upgrade. Do a side-by-side comparison of the 704 or 703 against the 683 and you will understand what I mean. You may hear a very slightly smoother treble from the 7's, but otherwise the mid-range performance of the 683 is actually better than the 7-series floorstanders.
I would go back for one more listening session. If you like the Paradigms more, and you are willing to pay $900, then buy them. You should go with what you responded to the best.
Thanks EBF,
Since I am not a true hobbiest or audiophile, I'm betting that what I referred to as "upper midrange" may not actually be the best description. :)
I guess the only other way I can think to say it is that the vocals were *superb*, the cymbals were a touch soft and very pleasing to me........the area in between wasn't enough for me though when listening to Rock music. :)
Damn, I failed to mention that my left hearing is jacked up due to an M60 in the USMC. I'd call that pretty important info that I forgot to impart above.
The shop was using a Pioneer Elite receiver similar to my Denon. I did not catch the model of it or the DVD/CD player.
The room was deep, maybe 16x23 or so. The 685's were about possibly 10' apart, slightly angled inward with the seating 12' out.
I may be off on some of the measurements, but, all in all, it did seem like a proper setup to this novice. It was one of about 12 different closed rooms set up for A/V auditioning. Very nice.
I agree with you on the floor standing models though,...that is indeed my preference.
I wish I could rightly describe the $250,000 McIntosh audio system they played for me in the "back" room. omg. 7' tall speakers, 600lbs each. I recall seeing 2k, 4k, & 6k on both amp displays but I think we only hit a few hundred RMS. I was literally lost in the dozen pieces of gear in this single setup.
It's a bit at odds to me how something can be so LOUD, and not the slightest bit offensive. :) It was unbelieveable.
I appreciate your input!
Wanted to share an update of the shop I went to today. Ya never can tell when it may help someone else or someone may respond and I'll learn something. :)
I went to Hanson Audio in Kettering Oh. today. The owner is an old acquaintance/friend and it's a great shop but I haven't seen him but once in a couple of years.
http://www.hansonav.com
Funny thing is, he'll probably read this too....
Hanson's carries Theil, DynAudio, Focal, Induction Dynamics, Monitor Audio, KEF and others.
I was able to listen to the DynAudio Focus 110/140 speakers. These things are like bookshelf sized but seriously, the BASS they produce is absolutely unbelieveable!!! It's insane. It's something you have to witness to believe. I have seen other peoples posts about "bookshelf" speakers and big bass and I was a total non-believer. I've heard new, floor standing $600-$1000 speakers that were not this deep and tight sounding. (they are 2-way, acoustic suspension)
I'd pick these for full range music before I'd pick the B&W 685's. (but I'd pick the 685's and a sub for HT)
Anyway, loved' em but I needed more 2k-6k sound for my damaged ears and hard rock.
I also listened to some Monitor Audio RS6's. Again, very nice. Definitely filled in that 2k-8k range I needed but it didn't have the bass of the smaller DynAudio's.
Back to back to back, I then tried a set of Focal 716's. I started liking these for what I want to call their mellowness. For me, they had a nice balance to them.
It was a good warm, full bass even if it wasn't as deep as the DynAudio's. I thought the bass was better than the Monitor Audio's. Their Mid and Low's really worked well together.
Still something missing for me though. I couldn't pin it down until someone mentioned they were 2 1/2 ways. Aha. I think I'm sensitive to that 2k-6k range. bad ears. :)
A step up from these was the Focal 807 V. I believe these are 2-ways but somehow they really sounded a lot clearer in that range I need! Damn. If I could just get the DynAudio bass sound or the Focal 716 bass with the Focal 807 V highs I'd be in heaven. :) Dangit!
One last speaker check for the heck of it was the NHT Classic 3's. I rocked the hell out of these,....we lit'em up. Static-X, Chevelle, Eighteen Visions.
Wow. Initially, I thought they didn't balance well. the highs were strong to me. But then, the more we rocked them and the louder we had them, the more I really got to liking them, a lot! They really play Rock and Hard Rock well! I could hear plenty of detail, bass was tight but not as low as the DynAudio. (yeah, the DynAudio is now a reference for everything I listen to, lol)
Maybe it was the aluminum tweeter and mid but I liked the Focals better.
I'll go back for some more Focal listening, and maybe see if I can afford a step-up in DynAudio since I keep referring back to their bass. :-D
Cheers!
Saturday!
Today I went to AudioElegance in Cincinnati. http://www.audibleelegance.com
I noticed in their website a picture of a piece of a Focal speaker so I wanted to check them out.
They had a lot of Focal speakers! They also sported some Martin Logan, Theil and others.
I listened to the Focal 726 side by side with the Focal 816's! woohoo!
Unfortunately, I didn't have my same set of CD's as previously but the room was of similar dimensions.
We had a Supertramp - Crime of the Century CD available. Good bass, good vocals, good highs on that CD and one I own myself.
I gotta say, I think the 726's are *noticeably* better than the 716's. (2-way vs 3 way) The 726's are about $1500 though, but they do rock. What can you say about a 1500 dollar speaker? Bass was very good, mid and highs were good. The tweeter didn't offend me like some do. There was excellent balance of the drivers. I really liked them. First set of speakers where something didn't stick out for me in a negative way!!
I then tried the Focal 816 V's and I was SKEPTICAL because they were only 2.5 way and I had previously tried the 2-way 716's and thought they lacked something. The bass balance was excellent on the 716, but I wanted more in the 2k-6k range. (where the 726's did deliver)
The 816, for me, was even one step better. As I said before, I listened to the Supertramp CD, and then also the unplugged Alice in Chains CD.
Everything seemed a little tighter to me with the 816, and the bass a little cleaner. Whether it's worth the extra $400 over the 726 is debateable.
I **LOVE** the 816! I believe this is the speaker for me. I'm having a hard time with the price of nearly $1900/pair though. It's twice as much as I was wanting to spend, but it is o n e b e a u t i f u l s p e a k e r !!
(both in visual appearance and audio quality)
And hey, they match my TV and system really well. :)
I think all I want to do now is seek out some Paradigm's for comparison.
Paradigm vs. Focal? Should be a tough decision! It's a good thing that you're trying out a lot of speakers. I don't really have any experience with JM Labs/Focal speakers, but I did read JV's review of the Utopia 1007Be, which sparked my interest. Not that I have $5k to spend on speakers :wink: Actually, I did once listen to a pair of cheap Focal bookshelves at Sound by Singer a few years ago. All that I remember was that the sales rep. was an asshole and made me feel like I was wasting their time.
I don't know about competing Paradigm models, but I checked the specs on that Focal 816 and 91.5 db sensitivity should make them very easy to drive.
By the way,
You really must spend some time with the B&W 683. They are the flagship of the new 6-series. They are spectacular. I believe they go for @ $1400. I can't think of a better dynamic floorstander at that price. They would be a fantastic main speaker for your HT and they are quite beautiful.
Here's a review of the 683:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2281&terid=2286&sc=hf
That 683 does look to be worth a listen EBF, thanks for the tip!
Since I raised my price range I'll go check out the 683 and CM7's. Luckily there's a place very close by.
Hi BA,
It's just a review, so it's just one man's opinion, but I heard them myself and they are astounding. They have wonderful imaging and soundstaging that totally belies their price, and $1400 ain't chump change. I think as more reviews begin to surface, it will become apparent that they are one of the greatest dynamic speakers in that price range, if not the best. I would love to hear the Paradigm's, but they seem to have a lot of mediocre dealers... they're not as selective as B&W. I went to a Paradigm "dealer" in Chinatown, and it was a cramped little room and nothing was even hooked up. There is a place in my hometown that has them, and I will go to listen to the Studio 20's, but I am not expecting them to be set up properly.
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