Subs & 'Stats'
Jim Hannon -- Fri, 02/03/2006 - 14:58
Has anyone been able to seamlessly integrate subwoofers with electrostatic loudspeakers like the Quads?
The dipolar subs that were around in the 80s seem to have disappeared.
Thanks!
Jim
There are many complexities to integrating subs. I have used the Velodyne DD10 and DD15 with several speakers (not Quads) and found that their measurment and EQ capability helps tremendously. One is no longer guessing at where the main speakers roll off, nor is it difficult to get smooth response. Phase can be dealt with, though primarily by ear.
You may also want to read Robert Greene's article on the Tact 2.2 system in TAS a few issues ago. This approach is now being marketed by Lyngdorf and they have some interestnig info on getting bass right. I've heard it, and I think it might be ideal with electrostats.
Jim,
Regarding matching subwoofers with electrostats (or other good planar speakers), it seems to me four key issues are A) transient speed, B) timbral accuracy, C) extended low frequency response, and D) control over low frequency EQ. The last point is, I think, particularly important and often overlooked.
Some say it is impossible to match subs with fast electrostatic or planar magnetic speakers, but my thought is that what many interpret as "sluggish" bass response may in fact not be "slow" bass but rather poorly EQ'd bass.
I have noticed that once you get in-room low frequency response smoothed out (either by very careful woofer placement, or by using a good EQ system) apparent bass transient speed and pitch definition also seem, subjectively, to improve.
Velodyne's DD-series subwoofers are interesting specifically because they give you a means of means of measuring, and then very precisely equalizing, the combined, in-room low frequency response of your main speakers plus the subwoofer.
I've not heard Velodyne subs with Quads, but have heard them integrate well with various Magnepan speakers.
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
The Velodynes sound like a good way to go to get the EQ right.
However, don't you need a dipole sub to match the radiation pattern of the Quads or other stats?
The best sub I've ever heard with a stat was the humongous SoundLab B1 (also a stat) with the A1s. Incredible.
Thanks!
Jim
I think the primary advantage of dipole radiation is that it excites room modes less. Some would argue that dipole radiation is therefore a problem at very low frequencies because it makes it hard to genrate enough LF power into the room. With a conventional radiation pattern you can more easily get enough power, but then you have an EQ problem. Hence the Velodyne built-in EQ solution. However, getting phase right, which some argue is irrelevant, remains a problem. If you think phase is an issue, you end up with the Lyngdorf approach, which is a corner loaded woofer (max power, limited phase effects), which is then EQ'd and time aligned by DSP.
Sound Lab makes electrostatic subwoofers designed to blend seamlessly with their full range electrostatics, including the M-1B and UB-1 which complement the M-1 and U-1 respectively. Years ago they made the B-1 subwoofers, and they can still make them. I've seen and heard a U-1/UB-1 system belonging to one of my customers on several occasions. Quite dramatic.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ (773) 809-HIFI
For years I tried unsuccessfully to blend subwoofers with electrostats. My problem wasn't, strictly speaking, the bass; it was higher up, in the midrange. I've yet to hear a subwoofer, EQ'd or not, that didn't affect the sound of the main speaker; sure you gain bass, "floor," space, and heft, BUT you lose some of the very things you bought the main speakers for, because no matter how steep the crossover slope, that big ol' sub driver is still playing, however faintly, up into the midrange (don't forget middle C on a piano is 256Hz), and you can hear it as a slight "overlay" that reduces midband transparency, resolution, and transient speed.
IMO, this "overlay" is independent of the loading, dispersion pattern, or size of the sub. For me the bottom line is pretty simple: If you want really deep bass, then buy a speaker system that has been designed to reproduce really deep bass and steer clear of most two-ways and smaller stats or planars. If you listen to a high-resolution source like vinyl or SACD/CD, no subwoofer I've heard will solve the bass problem without adding what, for me, are unacceptable sonic compromises. (BTW, I don't have these reservations about systems designed to reproduce low-res sources, like home theaters.)
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