Soulution 710
Jonathan Valin -- Wed, 12/17/2008 - 04:01
I first heard about the solid-state Soulution 710 about a year ago. This hefty (176 lbs., uncrated), 240Wpc (into 4 ohms) Swiss-made stereo amp had already won a number of prestigious awards in Europe and Japan from magazines that are persnickety. What was more surprising were the superlatives that accompanied the awards. Several of these magazines outright declared it the "best amp EVER," which was definitely out of editorial character.
Anyway, I did a little research, took a look at Soulution's Web site (www.soulution-audio.com/english/e_710.html), and was surprised to see Soulution talking about combining the virtues of tubes and transistors. (A hardcore, ultra-high-tech, Mega-Hertz-bandwidth transistor outfit conceding that tubes had virtues that solid-state didn't was, to say the least, unusual.) Intrigued, I decided to give the stereo amp, the 710, a listen, which is what I've been doing over the past two or three months. (I now also have Soulution's 740 CD player and am expecting its 720 preamp this week or next.)
Since I'll be spilling the beans about this amp in my review of the MartinLogan CLX (in Issue 190), I might as well just say it here: This is the most transparent transistor amplifier I've yet heard. It is to amplifiers precisely what the CLX itself is to transducers--a paragon of fidelity to sources. Unlike the CLX, however, it is not limited in the low end or in ultimate dynamic range. It does what MartinLogan's great loudspeaker does everywhere. It doesn't sound darkish and liquid like an MBL or a LAMM amp and it doesn't sound whitish and brightish like a Spectral or a Boulder. It just doesn't sound. I've never heard a solid-state amp like it, and I've heard a few. In fact, I've never heard an amp like it. It is so delicately detailed that it can rightly be compared with the very best tubes, and yet it has no tube colorations. It is so fast and clear and unlimited in extension that it can rightly be compared with the very best solid-state, and yet it has not a trace of astingency or grain or bottom-heaviness or top-tippiness. It is the first solid-state amp I've ever heard that has made me rethink my bias toward glass audio. It's so damn realistic (provided, of course, that the recording is realistic).
While I'm not ready to give up tubes quite yet, I'm not willing to give up the Soulution 710 either, which is just a new kind of animal I've never heard before. The only other time I've had an experience like this one was when I first heard the belt-drive Burmester CD player about ten or twelve years ago, which didn't sound like any other CD player I'd ever listened to and opened up a whole new realm of possiblities. That's what this amp does.
I wish I could tell you I knew why the Soulution 710 sounds the way it does (or rather doesn't sound the way other amps sound). But I don't know why. Look at its site and you'll find a good deal about DC to 1MHz bandwidth, short signal paths, error amplifiers, fixed-gain buffers, and current amps with a potential of 200 amp outputs. Some of it is familiar and some of it is mind-boggling. All of its bespeaks a fanatical attentiveness to every element of design. Soulution's motto is: "Do not add anything, do not omit anything." I'd say it has come close to making that something more than an advertising slogan.
I've been quite irritated by certain other reviewers proclaiming that the sound of Product X or Y can't be described because it has no signature that the reviewer recognizes (i.e., it doesn't sound like anything else that came before it). Every product has a signature, but I'll be damned if I've got a handle on the 710's yet. I'll work it out over the next few months of listening, but for the time being the best I can do is tell you that it simply sounds like what it is amplifying--like what comes ahead of it, good, bad, or in between. Through things that are themsleves as transparent as the CLX and the AAS Gabriel/Da Vinci 'table with Da Vinci Grandeeza tonearm and Da Vinci Grandeeza cartridge and Audio Tekne phonostage, it is like peering over the shoulder of the mastering engineer.
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I think you have a vested interest as a Dealer/Distributor so your response is natural.
For new foreign brands of audio equipment in the States, I believe the salient point is Start-up Distribution, and here the similarities with exotic European Auto Manufacturers is interesting.
When Porsche was first introduced to the US in the early 1950s, Max Hoffman in New York was the only distributor and try to imagine a network of mechanical shops across the US that were able to offer specialised service for this unique air-cooled rear-engined essentially hand-built sports car?
There was none! And if you wanted to test drive one before orderring?............good luck.
A similar storey for Ferrari Distribution and sales in the early 1950s.
Look at them now. With your philosophy there could be no beginning. Of course there will be failures, but that's business.
In my case, I'm not talking about 'great prices'......I'm talking about availability in most small markets around the world, a fact which you have failed entirely to comprehend.
And if you really believe that brands like Dartzeel and ASR are difficult to sell on world forums like Audiogon, Audio Asylum or Craigslist you are simply out of touch.
You don't know me. Yet like a few others who are shooting with blanks, you presume my "vested interest" is getting in the way of the facts. Here's a hint. I've been an audiophile since the 70s, a dealer for a few years. I've been down the road before and try to be plain spoken and helpful. I attend CES and RMAF regularly and have done so for many years, so by osmosis at the very least I've learned a lot about the industry. And I keep in touch with many audiophiles on the local scene and nationally. I ask lots of questions, and I listen. Over the years I've met and spoken with quite a few reviewers, including Jon Valin whom I respect. If anyone has an agenda, namely to discredit dealers and distributors as mercenaries, it's you. How soon you conveniently forget that they were consumers at one time and have knowledge, experience, and inputs from clients that you don't.
You have a very big chip on your shoulder. You'd be better off without it.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
Excuse me. Can someone please show me where it states this forum is dedicated only to "American made" or "American distributed" audio equipment?!?!?! The xenophobic undertones are very unpleasant indeed.
Amen.
Ok everybody, relax. This is a good discussion topic.
Lets put ourselves in the shoes of the dealer of this hypothetic new and very expensive product with little distribution in the US market. There is nothing wrong being new or relatively unknown, of course, except this product will, under most circumstances, sell lower quantities than a krell or arc at its heyday. So by investing in this new brand the dealer will take additional risks in the form of longer stock turnover, higher carrying cost, various unknowns with regards to performance, guarantee, reaction from clients etc.
So what is the dealer going to do? He will rightfully demand a higher premium in return for these additional risks.
So what conclusions do I draw, as a consumer, when reading JV’s comments on a relatively unknown brand that might be indeed the best solid-state ever? That the price must be unjustifiably and artificially inflated, full stop. Intentionally or not. Because everybody involved from the financier to the dealer must pass the costs of supporting this product on to the consumer.
Log on to soulution’s web site and read old reviews of the very same products JV is now reviewing. Look at the prices a couple of years ago. They have almost doubled; because soulution, now on a growth path, needs to create this incentive for its dealer. There is nothing wrong with this model actually this is the only logical model but the consumer needs to understand he is paying very dearly to be the exclusive owner of new exotic gear. i believe every word jv is saying on these babies but I will not consider buying them just yet.
Interesting.
Yes, 'purposefully inflated' I must agree. Take for example the 700s which I know to be priced way below 100K (just mid last year--overseas), they were listed at 100K in Singer's introductory ad later same year. Now seemingly elsewhere in thread, there were already mentioned of them hitting the 110-115K mark? 'Costs of marketing' is totally understandable, but up 20-30% within a span of 6-8mths?? C'monn..?! And God only know how much they will eventually cost after their formal star studded reviews make it to press in a few months time.
I do not know the Soulutions prices overseas, but you need to factor in the huge price jumps when equipment moves across the Atlantic Ocean. You only need to compare the prices of ARC, Krell, Magnepan (to name a few) in England or France (say) to their US retail to understand that the (ugly) phenomenon goes both ways - it is generally about double. Part of the reason is an extra level or two of distribution, some extra transport costs, some import and other duties, but also perhaps some higher risk factors and in the end, maybe some market pricing (as for example for CDs or DVDs) even. Also, some distributors feel the need to drive around in Ferraris too ...
Brian says "If your ASR Emitter or Dartzeel component fails, who's going to fix it? You're probably going to have to ship it a long distance. Maybe not all the way to Germany or Switzerland, respectively, but it wouldn't surprise me if you had to." Just out of curiosity, Brian, where do YOU send your Abbington Music CD players, Acapella loudspeakers, and Einstein electronics if they fail (just to name three product lines from the top of your list at http://www.essentialaudio.com/products.htm)? Do you fix them all in house and stock replacement parts for all of them? And out of further curiosity, following up on bvdiman’s comment about Soulution pricing, have Abbington, Acapella, and Einstein substantially raised their U.S. prices over the last few years? If not, they are very very rare exceptions given the unfavorable exchange rate (and the skyrocketing price of metals) that has been playing havoc with the cost of imported goods (and imported parts) for the past two or three years.
This said, I’m not at all pleased when companies take advantage of a favorable review by jacking up their prices. And, yes, it does happen (a lot). But don’t be singling out Soulution as a prime suspect—that’s not fair. I hadn't written a word about Soulution when it (and Axiss) set current U,S, pricing. In fact, at that point, I'd never heard of the company.
Jon, AMR products are serviced by the US distributor, located in the Atlanta area, if necessary; I am able to work on the products as well. Einstein electronics are serviced in the US by a skilled technician the US distributor works with. As for Acapella, the plasma tweeters are serviced in Germany, the scope of which normally involves replacing the rod-type elements that last several years and involves shipping the tweeter units.
I can't dispute your remark about price increases, over which i have no control. Acapella and Einstein prices have gone up a lot due to the exchange rate and manufacturing costs. AMR prices have risen due to manufacturing costs, though not as much. I do not recall questioning prices in my post, and my comments were in no way directed at Soulution. Rather, my remarks were regarding products not represented in one's country at all.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
I did not mean in any way (my previous post) to be singling out Soulution here. It's just that I only happen to keep track of pricing whose products I'm really interested in and follow closely. Amongst others are also FM Acoustics and Magico, but since this being a Soulution's thread, I just thought it to be a more relevant mention.
Yes, Magico too, when I was considering to buy them (M6), they were initially costing around $100k (mid'08), after some thoughts, got back five months later and was told by the importer that the price has been increased to $125k (end'08, M6 w/new carbon drivers).. And was told very recently that they are now listing at/close to $150k! Well, I don't exactly know the type and cost of aluminum they are using, but what I do know that at this moment, most, if not all, commodities prices are actually slumping almost their lowest lows. No doubt they do sound excellent, but 'to me' such rapid increments within a fairly short period span is unjustifiable, thus caused me to re-think my buying decision.
Similarly for FM Acoustics, was quoted last year CHF125k for their FM1811 amp. Only to be informed last week that as of January '09 it too was raised to CHF133,500! However more understandable, as this was more a periodic adjustment across whole range. That said, I'm not complaining in any way here, knowing very well that each company has rights to their own policy making and setting of direction. And that I also see no gun being pointed at my head to buy any of the said products. So, ultimately when finally all things considered, and I still think they are worth it--I will buy them. Otherwise, will simply move on and bring my business elsewhere, as I see it, there are still quite a number of truly great products available as alternatives.
Gentleman,
Can any of these super expensive european or asian products be serviced under warranty in the U.S. in a timely manner if they break?
This is in my opinion the ultimate definition of High End- performance and service not one without the other. The reason many American products are double as Zeb points out is the currency exchange, shipping, customs and mark up, however the European and Asian distributors of many of these products also provide the warranty service in their countries. I know this is a fact for many of the better known American brands this is not true of many of the ultra expensive imports mentioned earlier in these posts. How can one service a 100k plus amp if there are no dealers, importer or technical staff at all set up. If one buys one of these products how does one get it fixedi f it fails?
I have been in the retail business for a long time and I know for sure that when one buys an expensive product you are one pissed if it breaks and enraged if it has to go on a european vacation, which is very expensive, very labor intensive to pack and shp and very time consuming.
If this is the case for american products overseas then in my opinion they also would not be a good buy since there are good products today from all over the world.
It is not high end without serivice it is just expensive esoteric!
Pricing seems to make little sense on many counts on both sides of the ponds. When a company hires a distributor the price has to go up. When they sell in a different country the price has to go up. when they hire sales staff the price has to go up. When they set up service the price has to go up. If they import themselves and set up distribution the price has to go up. when they actually have to produce some quantity the INITIAL price has to go up!!! yes up not down for they have to buy large quantities of parts, hire more staff and maybe expand facilities. This is the reason that many prices go nuts, its the basic principles that change dramatically when the scale of production changes.
I am not speaking of any company in particular here since I have no financial matter to analize but it always happens with emerging companies, always.
Guys,
Some of these expensive high end European products can be serviced and fixed in the US in a very timely manner. Both our Sovereign and Aaron amplifiers from Germany are repaired by qualified Engineers within 1-7 business days after receiving the damaged product. We do keep a small inventory on hand of spare parts to do repairs but if we need a part from Germany they ship it the same day.
If a distributor is smart with his European money management you can lock in Euro to Dollar rates each year. That can at least guarentee dealers do not have to worry about price increases. Our manufacturers have not raised there prices for quite some time now so why does everyone use the excuse about the Euro to Dollar exchange? If a company prices their products properly (without price gouging) from the start then you do not have the constant price increases that you reference to with other manufacturers. I feel that it is not a matter of metal costs or manufacturing costs of many distributors/manufacturers but a matter of greed. When their products get great reviews and start selling well everyone wants to take advantage of this success by raising prices and increasing profits. I am by far not looking to get in the middle of this arguement but I just wanted to give my thoughts and feelings on the subject from a North American / European Distributors point of view.
At the end of the day it is up to the customer to do his homework and ask the right questions to make sure his investment is the right one for him/her. Hopefully there is a good dealer he can turn to also.
Cole Hatfield
i am calculating that, with the help of some industry insiders, if ref 610 were made by soulution rather than arc, it would cost around usd 65-75 k. because it is new and it is imported.
Magico i am following more closely. i think they ran into cost overruns and delays in bringing the new products out and i find their price adjustments more naive.
I've had about a little over a month delay last year for my Mini 2. To be fair to Magico, that might also be due to my local retailer / distributor, but he told me that Magico were swamped with orders after receiving rave reviews. Also, I was advised well in advance of the projected increase in price for Mini 2 from $26k to about $30k and was given the opportunity to place an order at the old price (which I did).
I think it is normal to expect some overheating. As far as I know, Magico was essentially a boutique company doing small numbers of exotica and now they have 5 models at various price points in their range from the V2 to the M6, with, I expect, a rapid huge increase in production and delivery requirements. It is not surprising that the price structure is not stable or that there are some delays. You also need to factor in the improvements and changes that are being made in the models. Originally, the M6 was going to be priced lower than the M5 is now. Constant tinkering has pushed it where it is. Same story goes for the M5 ..
All companies must find there "comfort zone." The are in growth where they can run efficiently and stabilize there costs. There is a minimum and a maximum size for all small business where to make the next leap requires huge capital investment and serious increase in costs before they can then stabilize atsome future date with large volume and more space and employees. I am not referring to any single company here just basic business.
The entire audio business, especially in the high end guys are very small companies. They are almost all below 20 million in sales. THe vast majority below 5 million. Costs for companies of this size are going to change with almost any economic factor over short periods of time.
I think that many people think that all of these companies are much larger than they really are.
Hi Folks
Do you guys have more photo from Soulution end user?
Best regards
Thomas
Ok this is the room i want to be apart of. First i will explain who i am so theres no missunderstanding. Im a music producer studio owner who lives out in malibu. documentroom.com. Pls gander an I will explain more if any one is interested. Im really in to gear. let me add to that I have crap load. can i say that? i value this forum an would like to be apart of it. Im very interested in purchasing some of this gear. An again value the honesty that ive seen here.
Attention Fooman, this is a question to the picture you posted on the first page. I will repost my question here-
Fooman,nice setup. Who makes the stands you are using? Especially the wide wooden table your souce pieces are sitting on? I would like to do the same with my setup. Have the CD player,pre and amp on the floor and have a wooden table over them as you do to support the Flat screen. Great WAF (wife acceptance factor).
Hi John,
I am on the verge of buying Soulution 750, do you have any feedback on this phono preamplifier, ı know that you have mentioned as THE BEST but could you please give some specifics and comparison, thanks
Em,
The Soulution is, indeed, a superb solid-state phonostage--one of my two references (the other being the tube-hybrid Audio Research Reference 2 Phono). Like all Soulution gear it is extremely well-made, extremely low in distortion, extremely high in resolution, extremely quick and powerful in dynamic, and very neutral in balance (without sounding at all bleached in tone color or lacking in tonal weight). Its bass is perhaps its chief glory--simply phenomenal low end power and resolution and grip without the "mechanical quality" that sometimes goes with a preamp that has tremendous "grip" on the bottom. Indeed, the Soulution 750 is that rara avis--a soilid-state preamp with more (not all, mind you) of the "freed-up" bloominess (particularly in the bass) of a tube phonostage. It is truly excellent. I'll be reviewing it in Issue 206.
Do be aware that, as of this writing, you can't "just" buy a 750. It has no power inlet of its own and has to be tethered to a Soulution 720/721 linestage via two umbilicals, making it a very pricey opiton. However, if you've already got a Soulution 720/721, as I judge you do, then it is, IMO, your best option in a Soulution-based system.
Jon
I already have soulution 721, will replace whest audio 30rdt phono pre by 750. Thanks for the comments I will go and order 750. Power amps are mbl 9008a monos driving SF Stradivari.
What about the cabling currently I am using nordost Valhalla through out, any comments?
Emre
Jon,
just got Soulution 710 power and changed MBL 9008A monos. The result is jaw dropping. I know really understand your review of Soulution products and enthusiasm. These products are simply put amazing, pure dead silence, grip on the bass, sweet and lush but not vague mids, treble just flying to stratosphere and incredible soundstage. I am really and truly amazed of the prodcuts, as I have mentioned I has pre and now the power and in 2 months time I will receive the phono pre as well.
Last night my wife comments was "where the bloody amp went, fells like not listening to music but really really enjoying it".
Emre
Hi Emre,
Great to read you are so happy with the Soulution pre-power combo. I fully agree with your enthousiasm! And I can asure that they will remain very satisfying for a very long time. I acquired both units last year, and still feel no need or urge whatsoever to change or upgrade anything. The Soulutions provide the purest form of music reproduction that I am aware of. Your wife is spot on in her observation that "the amp just disappears", leaving you with your music!
Happy listening,
Marcel
Emre, I had the luck 2 years ago to listen to the best audio system in my life.It was exactly the same combo as yours amplification/speakers wise except cabling.Soulution pre + power amp and Sonus Faber Stradivari.It was the best system of the high end show by far.Truly magical sound.Why don't you try Yter cabling since it is what the Strad has inside?
Lemarchand, I have tried in the past yter cabling but found it thin, since than nordost valhalla is used.
Hello Em
I am now considering to upgrade power for my B&W800D. Which one would you recommend between MBL 9011 stereo and soulution 710?
Thank you for your kind advice.
Sung
Hello Sung
I will definitely recommend Soulution gear and since you have mentioned MBL 9011s I will go definitely to mono Soulution gear. I have used MBL 9008A monos previously and founded darker sounding than Soulution. Soulution pre power combo will really make a shift in your paradigm of solid state gea, be it either on transparency, soundstaging, bass control and luxurious treble and mid range with a magniicient dark really dark background. I now myself considering on pgrading my phono pre to soulution one.
Emre
Hello Em
Thank you for your kind advice and your detailed explanation for the soulution gear. However due to limited budget, I can only stereo power.
Do you recommend soulution 710 than mbl 9011(not mono)? Somebody said 9011 stereo version give better sound and musicallity than mono version as long as normal speaker efficiency(87~90db) and normal listening level at home.
Sung
Hello Sung
Despite that you will go for the stereo version, my vote is for Soulution. Can t tell about the difference between stereo and mono verion of mbl, i had mono 9008A but never tried in stereo mode. If both options are in the same dealer better to audiotion them if not a home audition will be the best.
Emre
Jon,
I'll be upgrading my Magico V3s to the M5s within the next month. I'm currently using a DartZeel pre and stereo power amp to drive the V3s and looking to change the power amp. I've read your superlative comments about the M5/Soulution pairing and was wondering how the 710 stereo amp compares with the 700 monoblocks when driving the M5 in your system? And given the large price differential between the 700 and 710s, I wanted to hear from you whether the 710 had comparatively sufficient power to drive the M5 to its full potential? I've seen photos showing the M5s driven by four 700 monos but I'm afraid the price tag for even one set of 700 monos is beyong my reach at this point. The 710 however is attainable. I look forward to your reply. Thanks.
Carlos
Jon,
I'll be upgrading my Magico V3s to the M5s within the next month. I'm currently using a DartZeel pre and stereo power amp to drive the V3s and looking to change the power amp. I've read your superlative comments about the M5/Soulution pairing and was wondering how the 710 stereo amp compares with the 700 monoblocks when driving the M5 in your system? And given the large price differential between the 700 and 710s, I wanted to hear from you whether the 710 had comparatively sufficient power to drive the M5 to its full potential? I've seen photos showing the M5s driven by four 700 monos but I'm afraid the price tag for even one set of 700 monos is beyong my reach at this point. The 710 however is attainable. I look forward to your reply. Thanks.
Carlos
cmarin,
Interesting question. I guess I'd have to say that the 710 has enough power for the M5s, unless you live in a very large space and tend to play music at super-loud levels. Magico speakers tend to like a lot of power (as you must already know), and the 710 is marginal (240Wpc at the M5's 4 ohms). OTOH, the 700s in bi-amp mode (which I preferred with the M5s) don't give you any more watts than a single 710 (although they do give you the advantages of bi-amping). My favorite amps with the M5s are the Techncial Brain TBP-Zero (American Export version ONLY), which at 700Wpc into 4 ohms has more than enough power, and the ARC 610T, which at 610+Wpc also has more than enough power. Both of these amps are relative bargains by Soulution-pricing standards--$60k for the TB monoblocks, and $39k for the ARC monoblocks.
Jon
Jon,
My room isn't too large (18'x25') and I don't play music at ear-splitting levels so it sounds as if the 710s are likely to be more than adequate. I'd love to play with the 610T but I sure don't need any more heat during the summers in Texas. OTOH, the TBP-Zero does sound intriguing. However, I'd read some not very complimentary comments about the TB's reliability from a "disgruntled" distributor in another blog. Have those issues been discredited and/or remedied? Thanks for the advice.
Carlos
At Audiogon's members virtual system site, I think there's a gentleman using 710 with M5. You might also want to check him out for opinions.
djanggo, thank you very much for the suggestion. I'll look it up.
Obviously, the best thing to do is hear it for yourself but you would be happy with the 710.
Pal,
Couldn't agree more. Plan to listen to the Soulution 710 as well as the VAC Phi 300.1 Phi monos with the M5 soon.
JV, can you tell me which cables out of your reference systems you prefer (the MIT MA-X, the Tara Labs Zero or the Synergistic Research) with the Soulution 710 and 720 combo and why? Also, do you prefer the Soulutions to be played balanced or single ended? Thanks!
My dealer has put a full Soulution setup in my living room just before Christmas and they are currently playing with my Avalon Isis speakers. This must become the best Christmas ever!!!
Thanks!
Bas
Bas,
Well, you certainly must've been a VERY good boy this year!
At the moment I use Synergistic Galileo cable and interconnect with all electronics. This doesn't mean that I don't recommend MIT MA-X or Tara Labs Zero (which was my reference for a long time); it just means that TO MY EAR the Synergistic stuff provides just a little more of everything I like. OTOH, the Synergistic Galileo is unbelievably $$$$$.
As for balanced versus single-ended, that depends on the electronics. The nice thing about Galileo is that you can swap connections at will, so trying both SE and BAL is a snap.
For what it's worth (and it's worth something), Soulution has often showed (or, at least, been shown) with MIT balanced.
Jon
Jonathan, you are one lucky guy. Can you believe you get paid?