Soulution 710
Jonathan Valin -- Wed, 12/17/2008 - 04:01
I first heard about the solid-state Soulution 710 about a year ago. This hefty (176 lbs., uncrated), 240Wpc (into 4 ohms) Swiss-made stereo amp had already won a number of prestigious awards in Europe and Japan from magazines that are persnickety. What was more surprising were the superlatives that accompanied the awards. Several of these magazines outright declared it the "best amp EVER," which was definitely out of editorial character.
Anyway, I did a little research, took a look at Soulution's Web site (www.soulution-audio.com/english/e_710.html), and was surprised to see Soulution talking about combining the virtues of tubes and transistors. (A hardcore, ultra-high-tech, Mega-Hertz-bandwidth transistor outfit conceding that tubes had virtues that solid-state didn't was, to say the least, unusual.) Intrigued, I decided to give the stereo amp, the 710, a listen, which is what I've been doing over the past two or three months. (I now also have Soulution's 740 CD player and am expecting its 720 preamp this week or next.)
Since I'll be spilling the beans about this amp in my review of the MartinLogan CLX (in Issue 190), I might as well just say it here: This is the most transparent transistor amplifier I've yet heard. It is to amplifiers precisely what the CLX itself is to transducers--a paragon of fidelity to sources. Unlike the CLX, however, it is not limited in the low end or in ultimate dynamic range. It does what MartinLogan's great loudspeaker does everywhere. It doesn't sound darkish and liquid like an MBL or a LAMM amp and it doesn't sound whitish and brightish like a Spectral or a Boulder. It just doesn't sound. I've never heard a solid-state amp like it, and I've heard a few. In fact, I've never heard an amp like it. It is so delicately detailed that it can rightly be compared with the very best tubes, and yet it has no tube colorations. It is so fast and clear and unlimited in extension that it can rightly be compared with the very best solid-state, and yet it has not a trace of astingency or grain or bottom-heaviness or top-tippiness. It is the first solid-state amp I've ever heard that has made me rethink my bias toward glass audio. It's so damn realistic (provided, of course, that the recording is realistic).
While I'm not ready to give up tubes quite yet, I'm not willing to give up the Soulution 710 either, which is just a new kind of animal I've never heard before. The only other time I've had an experience like this one was when I first heard the belt-drive Burmester CD player about ten or twelve years ago, which didn't sound like any other CD player I'd ever listened to and opened up a whole new realm of possiblities. That's what this amp does.
I wish I could tell you I knew why the Soulution 710 sounds the way it does (or rather doesn't sound the way other amps sound). But I don't know why. Look at its site and you'll find a good deal about DC to 1MHz bandwidth, short signal paths, error amplifiers, fixed-gain buffers, and current amps with a potential of 200 amp outputs. Some of it is familiar and some of it is mind-boggling. All of its bespeaks a fanatical attentiveness to every element of design. Soulution's motto is: "Do not add anything, do not omit anything." I'd say it has come close to making that something more than an advertising slogan.
I've been quite irritated by certain other reviewers proclaiming that the sound of Product X or Y can't be described because it has no signature that the reviewer recognizes (i.e., it doesn't sound like anything else that came before it). Every product has a signature, but I'll be damned if I've got a handle on the 710's yet. I'll work it out over the next few months of listening, but for the time being the best I can do is tell you that it simply sounds like what it is amplifying--like what comes ahead of it, good, bad, or in between. Through things that are themsleves as transparent as the CLX and the AAS Gabriel/Da Vinci 'table with Da Vinci Grandeeza tonearm and Da Vinci Grandeeza cartridge and Audio Tekne phonostage, it is like peering over the shoulder of the mastering engineer.
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I think that playback AND the format were and are the problem.
Look, I'm too heavily invested in vinyl--emotionally, intellectually, and historically--to ever be a gung-ho CD guy. I listen to LPs for pleasure 85-90% of the time. I look forward to listening to LPs. In the past I rarely looked forward to listening to CDs.
I think the 740 may change this some. (Indeed, it already has begun to.) I now look forward to listening to CDs and actually am considering buying one or two new ones, just to hear them played back on 740. Part of this is the excitement of a new toy. But part of it is the Soulution's sensational transparency, neutrality, and low-level resolution, which, as I already noted, comes awfully darn close to the realism of vinyl in the all-important midband.
That said, I can't pretend that CD doesn't have an unrectifiable problem in the treble, or that this doesn't bother me. It does, and it does. To a certain extent, the old saw about never listening to vinyl if you go to an all-digital-source system will always be true. But the 740 has made switching between analog and digital A LOT easier to bear (and a lot less of a degradation).
Great to see that you'll (probably) be listening to a lot more digital. Just think of how much more music you could listen to - all the Hyperion's, Chesky's, Harmonia Mundi's, DG's, EMI's, Sony Classical's, ECM's, Cedille's, Naxo's, Dorian's and Delos's. One stellar chamber-style classical disc is "Twilight of the Romantics" on Cedille - great !!
Digital is a good 15 years into its de-jittered (ADC), 20-bit-plus recording era. Welcome aboard......
As for playback, I hope you are slow-burning copies of your discs onto gold CDR's, then "finalizing" them with the solution that RH raved earlier this year. Finally, I recommend that you de-magnetize your discs between plays - it helps. Actually, we should *all* do these things as long as we're playing optical discs, not driving signals from hardrive or computer memory.
One more thing - I would try a super-tweeter to help alleviate the problem of digital's highs. This will not solve the problem completely but it might help. I would think that the treble range through the Soulution is more sin of omission than commission....
Kiddo, no supertweeter is going to replace what isn't there to begin with.
CD's troubles in the treble have nothing to do with the 740, which is as good or better than any other CD-only player I've heard in the top octaves, or any of the tweeters I've been listening to. It's the CD format itself that's the problem.
For the record, super-tweeters *do* generate information. Probably not what was on the recording but most reviews of these have been thumbs-up - some writers even saying they're essential. At least try one !!
On a separate note, TAS reviewed the cutting-edge Metronome CD system last year. Here, the reviewer said that this system seemed to "add another octave" on top (vs. other CD players). My point is that *playback* was doing a lot more damage than the encoding / sampling rate. But this is only a guess, at this time....
Another audiophile in Asia
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Soulution 721, 710, magico v3
What table is that, stargaze?
Hi, Jonathon
It is a DPS table with shroeder arm.
Jon, I just said it is plain and they didn't waste any money on looks!
BTW Stargaze who died and left you in charge of the audio industy? No one is entitled to an opinion without scorn and redicule?
I said it looked plain...period! That is my opinion, I never said anything about its sound since I have not yet had the opportunity to hear it. I am going to in Vegas and in fact I am interested in representing them here in Florida, so please stop the ethnic statements and the assumptions of being cynical, it is after all a very expensive product.
Thanks and have a happy new year!
Elliot,
I don't understand why you flew off the handle at Stargaze. Am I missing something here?
Jon
Go back and read his comments about Asians have better systems and appreciate brand names not like cynical americans.
I never cursed anyone geez I just expressed my opinion that the 45000 amp looks kind of plain and they spent little money making it look cool. I NEVER mention ARC or any other product in my posts but all one would have to do is compare some other expensive amps like Krell, Mark Levinson, MBL, Boulder and see they spent a lot more thought on cosmetics.
For my asian friend that got offended I think you need to chill out a bit. I have the right to express my opinion on the looks of the product and I said I have not seen nor heard it as of today and I do look foward to that in Las Vegas, perhaps my opinion will differ when I see it in person. I thought for example that the pics I saw of the CLX were aweful and it did look appreciably better in person.
Too all have a happy , healthy and hopefully prosperous new year!
Hey Mr. Goldman. No need to be rude and curse Stargaze. His statements are rather innocuous as I see them. Also, I don't see any ethnic statements but rather one that is geographical.
On the other hand, your statement "I hope it sounds a lot better than it looks!" and "They certainly did not waste money on cosmetics!" are nuanced with innuendoes and perhaps even bordering on sarcasm. As a dealer and one who doesn't represent this brand (yet), I would have thought you should have been more careful with your comments!
But sincerely, I hope you'll get to represent them and come around to appreciate its "plain" looks. Like JV, I really think they are quite special.
Cheers
Regretfully, your remarks pertaining to the Soulutions had been condescending and contradictory right from the begining.
"Lokis kind of plain, or is it just the pictures?"
"I hope it sounds a lot better than it looks! They certainly did not waste money on the cosmetics!"
Maybe I got it wrong, but I have no intention to scorn nor to "ridicule" you.
Happy new year to you too!
Stargaze,
I must say I'm rather shocked, surprised, and pleased by the sheer number of you guys who are using Soulution systems and Magico speakers! Up until about six or seven months ago (now), the Soulution gear was unknown to me. (I don't think it was being imported into the States until Art Manzano of Axiss--who has discerning taste--decided to take the plunge, which is right about when I first heard it.) We ARE lagging behind you guys in the Far East on this one, Stargaze.
BTW, what is a DPS 'table? Is it a German or Swiss design? Also what cartridge and phonostage do you use with this system (or do you use the phonostage built into the Soulution 720)? Have you, by any chance, heard the Audio Tekne turntable? I've heard very good things about it.
Jon
Hi Jonathan
The soulution 721 does not have a built in phonostage (linestage version of the 720)
The DPS is built in Germany. It comes with separate power supply.
The phonostage is the Einstein's Turntable Choice. The cartridge used is the Lyra Skala (current).
There was a write up on the DPS in hifi+ last year. Please see below link
http://www.avguide.com/review/the-willi-bauer-dps3-turntable
Sorry, I have not heard of the Audio Tekne turntable.
Shucks, Stargaze, I feel like a chump having you point me to a thread on our own Web site (even if that thread was imported from our sister mag)! Had you mentioned Bauer Audio I might've been a little less in the dark. I think I may have heard the Bauer 'table at a show(s) (perhaps in Munich or RMAF or both); I'll certainly look for it this year at CES. A friend of mine is high on the Einstein phonostage, BTW.
I have the Soulution 721, too, so I know it is a linestage-only preamp. I thought perhaps you had the 720 (which does have an integral phonostage). You may already know this, but Soulution is going to come out with a stand-alone phonostage, the 750 (pictured below). I'll be eager to hear it, although I'm highly pleased with the Audio Tekne. I believe that ARC is planning to come out with a new phonostage in the not-too-distant future that ought to be a contender, and Da Vinci has a phonostage that should be shown at CES.
Are you planning to come to CES by any chance? It should be fun to hear the Magico V5s with the Soulution electronics, although I can't seem to talk Alon into using a vinyl source in addition to high-res digital.
Hi Jonathan
Yes I have heard that Soulution may launch the 750 phonostage soon, but hitherto no news on the release date yet. Do you happen to know the retail price?
I do not believe we have a local dealer for the Audio Tekne gears and thus not able to audition any of their stuff. Am glad that you like their TT very much, but are they expensive? It looks massive. Can you kindly let me in on more information? I have problems logging into their English version webpage.
No chance to visit the CES this year. Awaiting to read about the show (especially on Soulution and Magicos) on your blog.
Stargaze,
No, I don't know the price of the phonostage, but I'll try to find out for you. I can't imagine that it'll be cheap. Nothing that Soulution makes is inexpensive (as you know far better than I do).
BTW, I haven't actually heard the Audio Tekne 'table; I've just heard good things about it. It is an air-bearing 'table with integral arm (see picture below). Here is a link with more info that is in quasi-English: www.tangramaudio.com/content.htm.
Of the 'tables I've actually auditioned at shows and/or reviewed, the two I like best at this time are the linear-tracking Walker Black Diamond (my longtime reference) and the AAS/Gabriel with Da Vinci Grandeeza 12" tonearm. Alas, both are VERY expensive.
Too bad you won't be coming to CES, although I have the feeling that a lot of people aren't going to be coming this year because of the economy.
Hi Jonathon,
Right, the Soulution 750 would be too expensive. But the built in Phonostage on the 720 is already top notch. One of my pal is using the integral phonostage for his TT set up driving the My Soniclab - Ultra Eminent cartridge with excellent results.
Have you heard 1) the Da Vinci Unison TT 2) Spiral Groove SG2 before.
Comptemplating to upgrade on the TT and have narrowed choices to the above 2. I cannot accomodate TT that is physically too massive (plus overly expensive) due to space. Do you have any advice for me please? Thank you
I heard the Da Vinci Unison (essentially a constrained-layer aluminum chassis'd version of the wooden-bodied Gabriel, using the same platter and motor as the extraordinary Gabriel and the same magnetic bearing) with the Grandeeza tonearm (not the new Nobile arm) at RMAF. For what it's worth, the combination sounded exceptionally good. The turntable is priced at $26,800U.S.; the Nobile arm is $7795U.S., but since the Da Vinci Grandeeza 12-inch arm is, I believe, about $1k-$1.5k more than the carbon-fiber Nobile (if you order the Grandeeza in a standard finish), I would give the Unison/Grandeeza a long listen before deciding.
Unfortunately, I didn't get to hear the $15k Spiral Groove SG2 with new $6.5k SG arm at RMAF, but I have always been impressed with Allen Perkins' designs. He has a long, highly distinguished track record in analog. Indeed, the 'SG1 and SG2 have already won awards for best analog product from several magazines. I will try to give the SG2 a listen at CES and comment on it in my show report.
If I were in the market at this price point, I would also listen to the incredibly musical $20k TW Acustic Raven AC-3 with either a Da Vinci or Dynavector or Graham Phantom II arm. It was our pick for Analog Product of the Year just a couple of years ago.
If your budget permits, the $40k Walker Black Diamond is about $5k-$10k more than these combinations, and it is one of the true gold standard of analog playback. This multiple award-winner has been my reference for the better part of a decade. With its compressor box, the Walker is larger and more complex than some of these other items (although you do get Lloyd and Fred, for the purchase price + plane fare, to set it up for you).
For a lot more money, there is the $60k Da Vinci/Gabriel with Da Vinci Grandeeza, which is the most transparent non-linear-tracking 'table/arm combo I've heard in my home--another reference-level product.
I seem to be getting a lot of boxes with a lock sign and the caption "Content Protected by Owner" in them. Problem with my browser?
Are the photos visible now?
Yes, thanks Jon. Now I have to figure how to fix misaligned posts - I get some of them out of sync and on the right *sigh*
Hi Jonathon
Thanks for the advice and information on the various TT options.
Looking forward to receiving your observations on the Spiral Groove SG2, as well as the Magico V2, M5 with the Soulutions when you visit the CES.
Photos are visible now thanks Jon.
deleted
Hi cybwiz,
You seem to be far ahead of all of us in the west when it comes to new equipment?
Your equipment includes names and nomenclatures I am not familiar with at all? Would you be able to post some photos of your set-up and the indivual components with perhaps some comments on their merits compared to those with which we are more familiar?
Sorry, I've no system photos.
Sovereign - it's an German brand, they make super amps and speakers, and soon a cd player.
Here's a photo of their Analysis Premium speakers with 2 sub's, they are made of Aluminium - the drivers are from scan speak and each sub has 1-12". - €15000
The big amplifiers in the middle is their top mono amps - The Sovereign - which can run on either 400V or 230V. Price €99000.
The amps are 150cm tall and can deliver 10Kw of power in 1ohm when run on 400V 3-phase power.
The preamp; Director includes a dual mono phonostage - €10000
Glory 240W in 8 ohm and they goes down to 1 ohm, - the mono version of Glory = Etermity - 350W in 8 ohm.
A smaller version is called Power which delivers 160Watts.
Sovereign are known for their superior musicality - and yes I just loves them.
They are beating my former references - Krell Evolution 1 and 2, Goldmund 24 and Telos 2500.
sovereign.hifi.net/
For specifications
www.jehifi.dk/Produkter/Sovereign/Glory/Sovereign-Glory-Spec.pdf
www.jehifi.dk/Produkter/Sovereign/Power/Sovereign-Power-Spec.pdf
Power test
www.jehifi.dk/Produkter/Sovereign/Power/SOVEREIGN%20POWER%20anmeldelse.pdf
They also makes an cheaper series of products; Aaron
I believe Nawrocka are the importer in the US.
Do let us know how the Soulution fare against your current reference Sovereign. Cheers.
cybwiz,
Did I read this right? The Sovereign amps you're using cost 99,000 Euros? That's $133, 822US! (I take it that's per pair?)
Also, are you saying that the two five-foot-tall pillar-like objects in the center of your first photo are the amps!?! Good Lord, what do they weigh?
Jon
Jonathan,
The Sovereign amplifiers MSRP is $145,000 US for a pair. The amplifiers are 59" tall and they are the towers in the center of the picture. They weigh over 400lb each. Less just say they can run ANY speaker on the planet without any problems. I hope no one minds me answering JV's question.
Best Regards,
Cole Hatfield
President
Nawrocka Distribution
Tel: 224-678-5287
www.nawrocka.us
Shoot for me for saying this....
i have been a close follower of the forum here but I am little concerned with the recent postings here at the soulution discussions...
It seems to me (and i might be totally wrong but) that some posters here are directly related to the company (soulution) or even owners of the company...
Its one thing to be an enthusiast of a companies (soulution) products but its a completely something else to have the photos of almost all soulution based systems in the world.!!!!!!
this picture fest makes me think that these pictures are fed to this forum by the company itself or someone within the company.!!!
othwerwise its insane to think that one enthusiast is travelling all over to take photos of the soulution based systems in a region or the world?!?!?!?!?!?
I think that this vast collection of pictures by one poster in this forum should be questioned and the poster should come out clean with the true identity and prove to the followers that he/she is not soulution related!
I think Jon and other reviewers of this forum should pay attention to these kind of threats (if my suspicions are correct) of producers and dealers alike using this platform for their marketing efforts...otherwise It certainly will put considerable doubt over the objectivity of the web site ...
Oz,
Didn't you read what I wrote above: "Are you a Soulution dealer, cybwiz? If so, please don't post any more photos. First of all, I think we've go the picture already. And, second, much as I love the Soulution sound, this isn't a free advertising site."
I too became suspicious when there were no pictures available of cybwiz's system as I requested?
This guy who has his camera (and computer) full of installations and showrooms packed full of Soulution gear, can't take a single shot of his own system?
Give me a break.
Yes I own these systems, and yes at the moment I've no photos of the systems.
And no I don't work for any hifi company, Soulution or Sovereign, I just loves the sound of them.
This post was about Soulution, so why not post some photos?, actually you don't want any photos I see, if I post photos I work for the companies?
All of the photos - my friends sends almost all of them to me, I've taken some, but I don't travel over the world all the time to hear systems.
JV I don't own the big tall Sovereign amps, only Glory - a cheaper Sovereign stereo amp.
You americans are so rude, i don't like the tone in this forum.
In European forums we don't treat each other like this.
So I say bye bye to this forum.
Has someone just been caught?
<<Has someone just been caught?>>
I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I tend to think Cybwiz was doing exactly what he said he was doing--posting photos that others shared with him. Although some of these photos were probably taken in dealer showrooms (and not necessarily by cybwiz, as he admitted), some of them obviously weren't. Speaking for myself, I enjoyed seeing the pix of all the Soulution gear and also that massive Sovereign amp. I don't see any obvious self-serving commercial links here (no links to stores or manufacturers), as I have with some of our other posters' posts.
I think we should take the guy at his word, and Cybwiz, don't be so sensitive. If I "hung up" on every poster who was critical of something I said or wrote, you wouldn't see me on any thread on this site. You should come back on line.
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilt? A quick google of "Cybwiz" and "Soulution" provides links to other fora and threads where Cybwiz has participated and offers plenty of pictures of other brands as well. Here's an example: http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54678&whichpage=13
Nice work, BlueAdept. As I said in my last post, I think some of you were way too quick on the trigger finger. Cybwiz is obviously an enthusiast with a cultivated taste for ultra-high-end gear of all kinds. This isn't something that should have been held against him.
Once again, cybwiz, if you're still looking, come on back to the party. All's forgiven.
i think too many forums are littered with dealers/owners posing freely as happy customers. here in this forum we have robert and jon and others who we know have no formal affiliations with the manufacturing and retailing part of the industry. this is nice to have. and easy to lose. i do not care about soulution or the next big thing as much as i do about exchanging frank ideas with decent people.
having said that i was sorry to see cybwiz delete all his posts and go.
You said it well. Forums such as Agon are rife with shills and sockpuppets, with posting rules weakly and unevenly enforced. Legitimate posts frequently don't make it, due to either heavy handed moderation or glitches with their software. As a long time audiophile and music lover, and as a dealer for the past few years, I try to see things from all sides before posting. In my brief time here it would seem things are kept on a fairly even keel, and TAS folks come across as genuine and open. cybwiz may have felt singled out, a shame.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
I'm sorry he deleted his pix and his posts.
I am sorry he left too, but the concerns raised were genuine and understandable, even if not correct. IMHO, he overreacted a bit; there was no need to get so upset. I hope he calms down and comes back.
So do I. But this forum thread is not about cybwiz but about Soulution electronics, which I trust you will hear at CES, Zeb. (Soulution will be shown in several rooms.)
(Speaking of CES, I think we'd better schedule our drink with Elliot for 5:30 pm, as my dinner is slated for earlier than I anticipated. Is this OK? Elliot? Zeb?)
no problem good by me since I have dinner plans somewhere else at 830 so I am cool with it.
Great! Zeb?
Jonathan,
Did Alon use the Soulution 710 amp to drive the Mini2s at CES?
I own the Mini 2s and am wondering whether the 721 has enough output to drive the Mini2s in a 13x 21 x 12h room.
Alon used the Soulution to drive the M5 in the Magico room. Great sound.
Soulution had their CD player, preamp and monoblocks driving the Mini 2 in their room. To be perfectly honest (and might get rotten tomatoes here), I prefer the Ref 3 / 610T / Emm Labs combo with the Mini 2 to the Soulution lot. Yes, there's tighter, faster bass with the Soulution, but smaller soundstage, less delineation and air around the instruments, and the highs aren't as "singing". You gain in the bass, but imo lose a bit elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, it sounded very good, even in show conditions. However, even if one prefers the presentation of the Soulution bunch to the ARC combo, I can't see how the 3x price tag can be justified!
Thanks Zeb & Tim
< Mikeson,
I found the 710s to be a better match for V3s. With MiniIIs, unless you listen at soft to moderate volumes only, you will be left wanting. When pushed harder, I heard break-up noises sounding like amplifier clipping accompanied by mild flapping of woofers. With the V3 they sounded fine, heard them driving the M6 too, beautiful, no problem at all. But MiniII, being a two-way designed to the max to mimic a full-range, is IMO a much harder drive. So for Soulution you might have to go 700s.
Btw. I'm currently driving the MiniIIs with an amp having 425w on tap into 4ohm, in a room only slightly bigger than yours (app.15x 27x 9h), even then (power wise), at times I felt they could do with a little bit more muscle. What are you using now?