SONY SCD-XA5400ES OR OPPO BDP-83SE
default -- Wed, 11/25/2009 - 17:59
Dear Members:
Is there anyone who can help me to decide which one (5400ES vs. BDP83SE) is better performance in AUDIO playback (CD/SACD)?
Many thanks,
Stereophile
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So, has anyone actually compare Oppo to the Sony unit or at least heard both units?
I live in Bangkok and unfortunately Sony decided not to bring in the 5400ES and as far as I know, they are not available in Hong Kong or Singapore either (according to Sony website for both countries). I could ask a friend to get one for me in Japan but I would not have a chance to audition first. Oppo 83SE will be available here in about a month time.
I just want a good but relatively inexpensive SACD player to play some discs that I have. Since I upgraded from Esoteric DAC3 to Berkeley, the one area that I miss very much is the ability to play SACD but otherwise I am very happy with Berkeley.
Is there not some way to hook up the Sony 5400ES SACD multi-channel HDMI output to analog inputs?
Adapters? Converters? Whatever!
The Stereophile A+ rating in 2009 for the Oppo 83 was a mistake which was corrected in the April 2010 issue. The 83 is rated Class B and the 83SE is rated Class A and having owned/heard both of them this is the correct placement.
Rana N. Kabir
CEO, ENDS Technologies
The XA5400ES whilst very good for stereo RB & SACD is better still for mch SACD when connected via HDMI to the Sony DA6400ES with H.A.T.S. enabled for lowest jitter. beats any high end stereo only system that I have auditioned.
I own both the Sony 5400ES and the Oppo 83SE. One is in my stereo system and the other in my Video system in separate rooms. The Sony is a much better CD player. I can't comment on SACD since I only own about 1600 CDs and zero SACDs.
I couldn't agree more with EDF. I've had my Sony 5400ES for about 7 months now and with redbook CDs or SACDs, the sound is excellent. What about it TAS, how about a review? (Of course, no matter what TAS says, it won't change my opinion.
I agree that the 5400ES is really good, and considering the cost, a deal as well. BUT..I've owned two Sony ES players that failed just out of five year warranty. No more Sony for me. I remember the ancient days of the Sony Trinitron TV's & Nikon F cameras. I have Japanese-made gear from the eighties that is still working flawlessly. Japanese electonics aren't IMO, as legendary in reliability as they once were, and I drive and listen to a lot of Japanese goods MADE IN JAPAN (not designed in Japan and made elsewhere) Some of my audio and motoring acquaitances share my views on the Japanese drop-off in reliability. I'd love to see some reliabilty numbers from an independent source.
I'm glad companies such as OPPO exist and really think their customer service is excellent, possibly better than anyone other than Audire. I do not own an OPPO because I am not willing to do continual updates and myriads of online fixes, as noted in the various blogs. They need to get it to work before they send it out. That is the real difference between the Non-SE models and the confiscated $2500 version sold under a different name.
I have an Oppo 83SE, I dont have the Sony but I have a Shanling SCD-T200. The SCD-T200 just broke on me and I am trying to get by with the Oppo but it just doesnt come close to the smoothness of the Shanling.
I just bought the Oppo SE and am very impressed. I used the freeware program BURN to burn DVD-Audio discs from downloaded 24/96 files. They sound terrific. Then again, I've never heard the Sony.
I sold my BD83SE when I received my Marantz BD8002 and in respect to audio quality, it just blows the Oppo away. I also have a Sony XA5400ES on its way so I can post a response on that later.
That's rather strange since in our in-house listening tests OPPO SE held up nicely against the BD8002 and no such “blowing” away occurred. Playing stereo DSD discs on the SE in a study in how much performance can be had for under $1K nowadays. The OPPO was the machine of choice under $2K for me since the Marantz does NOT play SACD discs. NOR does it support BD-Live Web functionality as well as network media streaming using a media servers since it is NOT a Profile 2.0 player and has no Ethernet jack. I also preferred the sound of the Sony XA5400ES over the Marantz and over the Oppo SE but it wasn't a big difference.
Rana N. Kabir
CEO, ENDS Technologies
Rana, It would be interesting to see a blind comparison. I too was surprised that anyone could be "blown away" by the superiority of another player to the sound emanating from the Oppo unit. I just acquired some 24/192 files from the high definition tape site. The sound was truly extraordinary. It made me realize how much of the musical experience is related to the resolution of the audio source. For example, I now believe that I could have doubled the cost of my speaker system and not achieved the same level of fidelity as I did by playing high resolution files on the Oppo player.
Agreed. I used to snub the brand having had some heavy hitters in my system. But the SE has truly opened my eyes (ears) to what is possible with a properly designed component. The SE is truly exceptional in this regard. It is the least expensive component in my system at the moment (saving up for the Playback Systems MPD-5 DAC). The wiring (AC included) connecting the SE to the rest of the system is more expensive than the unit itself and it just sings.
Rana N. Kabir
CEO, ENDS Technologies
In this mostly excellent discussion, one thing I have noticed is the lack of mentioning what sources or choice of recording were used when one CD player "Blows away" another.
I was a very late bloomer with CDs, partly because of my excellent vinyl playback system, but mostly because of the horrible sounding CD players originally on the market. My first CD player was so highly rated by Stereophile, that for years I dismissed what I heard for what I read.
On most of my albums, I try to save the stylus on my great M/C cartridge by using a good Yamaha or Ortophon M/C that sound right on the mark on many commercial recordings. On a direct to disc or other great recording, they (especially the Yamaha) sound very brittle on the high end, especially on cymbals. On most recordings the cymbals sound just fine with the Yamaha.
For the sake of repeatability of the listening tests, how about mentioning what you were playing when the one unit "Blew away" the other.
I would also like to clarify my previous comments on balanced connections: My system is so quiet and my cables so short, that there seems to be no difference. Although I mentioned the length of cables in a comparison, I did not consider that some electronics are not as quiet as others; also, I certainly don't want to disrupt the cash flow of the prophets of the more expensive wiring.
I have a friend who has the Oppo and he is not happy with either the SACD reproduction or CD playback on it (although he says it's a very good Blu-Ray video player). I don;t have a XA5400ES, but I DO have an XA777ES and I have yet to hear a better SACD or CD player - and I've had quite a few of both through my system. SACD through the Sony is still the best I've heard and although I have a very good outboard DAC, CD sounds better through the Sony player than it does through my outboard DAC. I have compared the XA5400ES against my XA777ES and they are very similar. I'd have give the nod to the 777, but it's such a near thing, that I don't think you could go wrong.
I now have a Sony XA5400ES and it is better that the Oppo BD83SE. Its also more refined that the Mrantz DV9500 and BD8002 although when I compare redbook CD's to the BD8002, I hear details that the Sony leaves out, the Sony is still superior but I still like the Marantz too, I like the Marantz sound . The Oppo had detail but I thought it was unrefined. When I first had my Oppo I spoke with Oppo to return it and they told me they received many negative responses from BD83SE's ananlog audio. What I didnt like about it was thethought it sounded unrefined, it would bother my ears, I found it hard to listen to, like maybe the digital filters were not right or something. Like it sorta had a slight shrill to it. The Sony and both my Marantz's are OK, and my Shandling SCT-T200 is way smoother than all of them. I have been considering still buying the Marantz SA11-S2 or the KI-Pearl, but they are twice the price of the Sony, but the Sony isnt bad, especially with SACD's, so I don't know if I should dish out the cash. I also would like to check out the Doge 6, which I hear nothing but good about. I do really like the Tube sound, maybe thats why I like Marantz, they sound warm.
The OPPO SE requires a significant burn in period. The longest of any Player I have ever owned. I found the shrill/harshness to smooth out within a few weeks and completely gone within a couple of months. The details emerged with magnificent focus & stability once the caps settled in. This was also reported by several colleagues including respected journalists/recording engineer who has written about the model. Also an after-market AC cord (I use JPS Labs) adds even more smoothness. Perhaps you did not give it adequate break-in time??
Rana N. Kabir
CEO, ENDS Technologies
Additional comment.
To be more specific about my previous comment that the Marantz BD8002 reveals details that the Sony XA5400ES leaves out, its not that its more detailed than the Sony, it just accents the lower midrange and brings out some details in that area of the spectrum, but overall the Sony is more detailed and more refined.
Interesting is that before I sold my 83SE I inquired about having it modded. They wrote me back and stated that they I should sell the 83SE and buy the 83 standard and have that modded because it would sound better.
Huh?! That's the exact opposite of what my discussion with Jason Liao (vice-president of product development at OPPO Digital) led to. Modding the board with the fantastic 32 bit ESS DACs (4 DACs per channel) with the superior 48 bit DSP would yield superior results than applying the same level of modification to the Cirrus Logic CS4398 board (1 DAC per channel), not to mention the superior Power Supply unit in the SE one would start with. One of the best aspects of the SE are the 32 bit DACs. It makes no sense to mod the Cirrus set unless you wanted to completely overhaul the machine including ripping out the DACS…. but then what would be the point? It would be cheaper to buy a better machine such as the Sony or the SE and start there. My modded SE runs circles around ANYTHING under 10 grand! I know for a fact that the normal 83 would not have yielded that much performance regardless of how much I put in it. The Cirrus set would have been the limiting factor. What specific mod or mods were you inquiring about?? Also could you please post the name of the person who wrote you back with that silly advice so I can follow up with Oppo? Thanks.
Also according to Oppo the return rate/negative reaction to the SE was not any higher than any of the other products which is another way of saying there are always a certain percentage of dissatisfied customers in any brand and any line. I have seen people return $10K+ cost highly rated really good sounding gear because something about it offended them. To each its own I suppose.
Rana N. Kabir
CEO, ENDS Technologies
Hi Kabir,
What on the Oppo SE did you mod to bring it up to level with the Sony XA5400ES? I read that the modded Sony XA5400ES is a lot better than in stock form. What do you need to do in order to bring the Oppo to match a modded Sony XA5400ES ?
Is it possible to attach a NAS disk via the ethernet port to the Oppo, and have it act as a music server? And then remote control it via an ipad ?
Hi, Rana,
Are you sure the ESS is a fully 32-bit DAC? (In the normal sense where we would say a DAC is 8-bit, 10-bit, 16-bit, 24-bit etc.)
You might want to take a look at their whitepaper: http://www.esstech.com/PDF/sabrewp.pdf
I was browsing through the MSB website, looking at their $26K+ Diamond Dac IV, and found this link, on their homepage:
http://www.msbtech.com/support/What_about_32_bit_DACs.php
The reportedly fabulous DCS ring-DAC is only 5-bit 64x, I believe, from what I have read.
The MSB approach, a bit more traditional, uses 4 modules each with 8 24-bit DAC's inside, giving 27bits per channel - 5 bits short of 32, though it handles 32-bit 384 KHz data, they'd need a bunch more of their 24-bit DAC's inside to give the "full monty."
The ESS Sabre seems to "one-up" the DCS, and go for a 6 bit Delta-Sigma approach.
I'm sure you know more about this stuff than me, but I think it will be a bit yet before we see cheap 32-bit multi-bit DAC's in products like the Oppo.
Perhaps someone else can better compare DAC's. I'm pretty sure Sony used other DAC's and ADC's than their own with their SACD releases: I wonder how the SCD-XA5400ES sounds coupled to a Meitner EMM Labs DAC 8 Mk. IV compared to on it's own?
Cheers,
Staxguy
....oh my god!!!!, tz45, you are funny, too funny, jejejejjjj....
I have tried to learn which way to go with regard to CD, SACD playback and BD playback. As one of those people who once had an extremely high quality system and custom designed listening space worth mulit- 100K's, I now have a much more humble system I refer to as the "post divorce system". I am amazed at the quality of sound, and more importantly the pleasure I can obtain for relatively little money with careful purchases and audiogon.
I would like to say that this thread is the best one I have read about the Oppo versus Sony debate, but there is one prominent omission that I would love to hear comments on if possible. Does anyone have experience with the ModWright mods to the Oppo83 versus the Oppo 83 SE and do they feel that balance outs are a worthwhile mod and the tube DAC a worthwile mod?
Russ
The Mobiusman
I'd like to throw in my (somewhat related) .02 worth:
I ran a Sony DV999ES CD/SACD/DVD player as my main unit for several years and its playback on all formats was pretty good. Next, I tried a Cambridge Azur 840 (CD only) and while it did a lot of things right, its highs were just too pronounced for my taste. Due to space limitations I really prefer a universal player and so I recently purchases the Oppo 83SE and couldn't be happier. It's far more than just a great BD player, at least in my system its CD and SACD performance is simply outstanding. No, I haven't compared it directly to the Sony 5400ES but the Oppo's performance and multi-disk flexibility simply puts it in a different realm, especially when you consider it's lower cost.
No player that I have auditioned beats the Sony XA5400ES for mch or stereo SACDespecially via HDMI the best connection method..The Sony is also excellent for RBCD