Shunyata's 2011 Python speaker cables and interconnects
vhiner -- Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:05
I have the newest Shunyata speaker cables and interconnects, which were unveiled at CES 2011. I am eager to compare notes with someone else who is using them. To my ears, they have a more profound impact on my system than even the legendary CX line of power cords. They blow away my previous reference, the Harmonic Technology Magic Woofer speaker cables and and Magic II interconnects, which are mighty fine, btw.I keep asking myself, "How can cables do this?" I'd love to hear how they compare to other cables and in other systems. I am using them in a Thiel 3.7/Conrad-Johnson/ PerfectWave/ Classe system to amazing effect.
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coopersark,
I wil be very interested to hear your results. In the meantime, have fun with it all. You are lightyears ahead of my meager (comparatively) system. the ZiTron Anaconda's should be an interesting comparison with the KC CX you have in your system.
Best,
Odd
Odd - I look forward to posting those comments! I am very curious. The Cyclops conditioners may be be overkill on the Levinson's, since those amps already regenerate their own power. I am somewhat skeptical of the efficacy of the Cyclops in this application, but it will be fun to try. Worst case, I return one and keep one for my secondary system. Something to look forward to!
Best,
Rob
coopersark
Odd and Coopersark,
Thanks for posting all of your experiences! That's what makes this hobby fun...learning from the EXPERIENCES of others. Theories don't interest me much.
Anyway, I look forward to hearing about the cyclops. Odd already has me saving up for the Python Digital wire!
I had talked with Richard at Shunyata this afternoon. He confirmed that shipping is still a couple of weeks away. I can't wait! I wil report back as soon as I can. You must report your findings on the digital connector once you save up and take the plunge!
coopersark
Coopersark,
I just received my Zitron Anaconda power cord for audition and have only used it for a couple of days. It's impressive right out of the box but I figure the burn in will be interesting. I'd be interested in hearing what your experience has been with this cord. So far, I'm impressed with the increased bass weight, lighting fast transients and micro detail.
FYI, I can completely corroborate what Odd's already written so eloquently about the Python digital interconnect. It's a killer. The way it renders digital into 3-D soundscapes is amazing. I think it's Shunyata's very best signal cable...which is saying a lot considering how much I love my Python IC's and SC's. The break in, as you know, is even more daunting with the digital cable.
I'm also eager to hear what you think of the Cyclops. I'm riding bare back to the wall right now but plan on installing surge protector at my mains panel, per Shunyata's recommendation.
I have had read some of these posts with great amusement but out of all the posts in this thread this is the funniest. Just what kind of fantasy world are you living in? Sorry, speaker cables will not change at all from new. If they did we would have to re-write the book on electronics. I’ve heard some strange claims in the Idiophile universe in my time but this one is the most ludicrous and amusing of all. Ever heard of the psychology of listening? The fact is that you buy an expensive cable and sometimes wonder why it sounds no better than light-flex in ABX trials after the initial hype, but then it’s to do with ‘break-in’ - some other-worldly phenomena that not also reverses everything we know about science but would instantly make just about any electronic component impossible to design. As an electronic equipment designer with a Masters myself I really do cringe at such gross misconceptions, as would my 9 year old son.
Ever wondered why you buy this expensive cable, plug it in and it sounds fantastic – it’s called pre-suggestion. In forums such as this you have been persuaded that there are some magical properties, unknown to science (except for the cable designers who work in some magical realm) that are special about certain expensive cables so you are expecting some amazing revelation and convince yourself you hear it. You have spend your hard-earned cash on some amazing sounding cable so listen even more intently to the music - it's that simple. The cable manufacturers and magazines are laughing at you!
Here is just a bit of science for the deluded that explains why a speaker cable cannot sound any better than a £2 lamp cord:
The only properties that effect transmission in a speaker cable at audio frequencies are resistance, inductance and capacitance. These values are all around 3 orders of magnitude less than those typically used in the loudspeaker coil and electronics (that is a factor of 1000 for the uninformed) – speakers contain many 10's of metres of hair-thin plain copper wire and copper wire inductors, capacitors and resistors in the crossover network, all joined by thin circuit boards and solder. The crossover network is designed to give correct tonal balance to the drivers. This is what these properties do – they affect tonal balance by applying a very large degree of filtering. The degree of filtering done by a standard lamp cord is negligible over a few metres and so the tonal balance would not noticeably change. Even if it did change the effect would be reversible with some very basic cheap electronics and signal quality is not otherwise affected. Putting things in perspective if you still don’t get it - noticing the effect of the cable when faced with what’s inside a loudspeaker would be like noticing a change in fuel consumption of your car when a fly has splattered on the windscreen. What would change the signal (from neutral balance) would be any fraudulently applied passive filtering, such as including a capacitor, inductor or resistor in the line.
Oh but you say – ‘I have some special Golden Ears that allows me to appreciate these special cables, regardless of the science.’ I say prove it in an independently organised ABX trial and somebody would have to re-write the book on electronics! You have fallen victim to what's commonly known in the audio world as 'the cable scam.' Get real!
Kevin
Keladrin,
This forum has a topic, which is a request for those who have actualky heard this particular brand of cable to report on their *experiences.* It is *not* appropriate to post ad hominem attacks on forum members or to debate the merits of cabling or the lack thereof. Start your own thread if that's what you want to do. Consider this your first and only warning. Two of your fellow hecklers have been barred from this thread. Ridiculing other people violates the forums' policies and spirit. Please move on or your posts will be blocked.
I urge other forum participants to avoid engaging in a senseless debate over "belief" about cables. If you've heard these cables, comment. Otherwise, you have nothing to contribute that is worth considering on this particular thread.
Apologies. Enjoy the rest of the thread.
I'm currently auditioning the Python ICs. With only 5-8 hours on them, the tonal balance is noticeably "light" with less lower-mid and mid-bass energy compared with what I'm used to...I'm guessing this will change with break-in???
JleeMD,
The next several weeks will be a roller coaster and primarily unpleasant. Fear not, they are SOTA at 500 hours...but not a moment before. Others here on the forum will confirm I'm not exaggerating...the new Zitron technology basically works as a circuit and, therefore, break in equals that of a major component with Blackgate or Teflon caps. Patience will be rewarded. Hang in there.
vhiner is absolutely correct. Just wait until you hear them after the "wild mouse" ride you have to endure. As vhiner stated, they are SOTA as Rober Harley has also reviewed. I have never heard my system sound like this before. I have Anaconda/King Cobra CX PC's throughout and the ZiTron Anaconda IC's, speaker cables, and the insanely good Python ZiTron XLR digital cable. Combined, they are superb, in any context.
As vhiner stated, hang in there. You will be rewarded.
Obviously, I can't audition the IC for 500 hours so at some point I may have to make a purchase decision based on a leap of faith...so thank you for the input!
500 hours, huh? Oboyoboyoboy! I got Cobra interconnects, and they have all of 20 hours on them.
"...and miles to go before I sleep..." Guess that 'bout sums up the wait time. But I'm glad to read JLee's post: I had the same impression,although I think it's more that the sound is still sufficiently "closed down" that it is not displaying its abilities. We'll see. What's interesting to me is that, when I auditioned the Python Zi Tron speaker cable, I got more weight and body out of the box than I have with the interconnects.
My view is the biggest bang comes from SC's, then the PC's and finally the IC's. The whole "loom"is amazing but I loved doing it in stages.
it depends on who you bought them from as to what length they will go to let you break in for 500 hrs to determine for yourself. Mine did and so did vhiner1's dealer as we both use the same one. The closed in sound is a typical character of the cable prior to full break in as is a somewhat grainy sound. Once it settles grain is totally absent completely and they open up beyond expectation. It is too bad some folks won't give them the full shot to break in and give up way too early. They lose out on a whole new world.
You have to remember that with the PC and then speaker cables, the system is putting a whole lot more juice through them than with the IC which explains the initial sonic impressions vs. the IC's. Of all of them the PC takes the least time to break in. About a week or so on 24/7.
Good to know, Oddeo.
I had mine drop shipped to me. And, as you know from prior posts, it doesn't cause me any grief that it will take that long for them to break in: I take the analytical approach to anything new: what happened when, and what followed and all that.
I just left the CD player on repeat. I take notes about what's different every few days, that is, if I'm able to tell what IS different. If it's minimal, well, then....it's minimal.
I have the ability to place, on the Arcam FMJ23, two sets of interconnects (the Arcam has two sets of outputs). On one se of outputst, I have the Nordost Frey (the Valhalla's sitting on the shelf); on the other, the Cobra. I did - instantly - notice that the Cobra seemed to lower the noise floor a little, but that was about all I could tell. I'm sure I'll love the interconnect, and I cant see why anyone would return it before it's had time to break in. Most dealers allow 30 days (or so I thought) to decide whether ore not to keep the item. That's why I use Music Direct. Never had anything resembling an unkind word for products I returned, including an audience line conditioner. Of course, after I returned the first one, I asked for the Teflon one. That one did NOT go back, so they know that if I really like it, I'll keep it.
It's unfortunate that dealers are unwillilng to give sufficient time for someone to audition an item. How do you keep customer loyalty without that?
JLeeMD,
I'd give Grant a call at Shunyata. I'm sure he can arrange for you to have an adequate audition experience.No one should have to buy audio equipment of this caliber "on faith." Shunyata stands by its products and the sense I get is that they don't want anyone "stuck" with their wire. Let us know what you think once the wire settles.
Brion,
Agreed on all points. I did the same thing with my Anaconda's. You should notice some very obvious changes at about 200, 300 and 500 hrs. At one point I listened and it sounded extraordinary then while I was listening I could hear it dropping back into a hashy closed in sound and then about 50 hrs later it started to settle in. At 500+ hrs give or take all of a sudden it hit its stride and voila'. Total joy. I have about 1200 hrs on them now and at least to my wild and crazy ears it seemed like they settled a tad even more after about 1,000 hrs, but like everything else it could just be my emotional connection to the music I get now I never did before with them all the way through the system. It is hard to explain that in words. I just feel closer, and intimate feeling I never had before. Call it what you will. I am sure I am leaving myself open to all sorts of craziness, but so be it. Eventually, your noise floor should drop further as the grain field in the sound prior to full break in finally disappears and leaves a purity that I had not experienced before.
I know MD allows for a long period as does Galen Carol where I purchased mine drop shipped from Shunyata. Both good shops. Vhiner1 and I both feel for you guys going through this process as it is arduous and irritating but ultimately rewarding. At a few points I thought I was going to go nuts with them, but hung in there. Boy am I glad I did. At the worst, they don't float your boat.
Let us know of course if you need a pep talk to hang in there now and again. I know both of us would be very happy to hear your impressions along the timeline toward circa 500 hrs. Enjoy!
Oddeo:
Think of me as a male Edith Lumley. Everything is fascinating to me, such as my recent discovery that not having an absorbtive wall plank (ASC) at a certain place on my wall had cancelled out some of my upper-mid bass energy. And I've been in that room for 8 years! It was dispiriting, but also exciting to discover ways of allow ALL of the music to be heard, not just the louder instruments.
I do understand your feeling closer to the music, and I hardly think it's "craziness." That's why good concert halls are so beloved: they allow you to hear the music in all its beauty. There is nothing "crazy" about being able to lose yourself in a kaleidoscope of music and emotion. They go together. It's supposed to affect you.
I feel sorry for Harry sometimes. When he writes reviews - and because he has tuned his system to a "T" - he hears the equipment in ways most of us with not quite SOTA systems don't quite "get" him, or think, he must be exaggerating. I don't believe that for a minute, but I understand why one time, a dealer said to me, "I wondered, am I listening to the same component he is?"" And I thought, NO, you're listening thru a different system, different room, and you STILL need to have the hearing acuity of Harry. So, when people dismiss things they have not heard, it brings to mind how hard it is to write what something "sounds like," although it would be more accurate to say, I belive, what elements of the music a component allows to come thru it and sound music in real life. I doubt that any audiophile couldn't tell the difference between recorded and real, just as any audiophile who's been listening to cables long enough and has decent (not "golden") ears, cannot, with careful observations, tell what a component is doing that others aren't. It facinates me that people demand "proof" when all they have to do is obtain the object and listen for themselves. It reminds me of the past, when people believed the Earth was flat. None of the audio "birthers" ever seem to consider that, if they listened first, and drew conclusions later, they would be, as Einstein put it, able to discover the wonders of life. He also said, those with closed minds are already dead.
And....back to the Shunyata. I have 3 generations of Shunyata power cords: first, second and current (Zi Tron). I know how long it can take for stuff to break in, although, even at 26 hours, I could tell, when walking back to my listening seat, the difference between the Frey and the Cobra, with the Frey having a slight glaze (or grain) over massed strings, while the Cobra, even at this stage, is actually airier in the middle of the midrange. It will be great fun to listen to the music emerge as the cable breaks in. I'm glad it's Memorial Day weekend: I have a full extra day to enjoy them.
Brion,
Very well put!
Guys, which end does the "bead" with the Zi-Tron end up at? The CD player end or the preamp end? I just found a diagram, one I hadn't seen before, and the bead is closer to the pre-amp end. Normally you go by the direction of the writing, so the "n" on Zi Tron would be pointing towards the input (pre-amp), but that runs counter to the diagram on the yellow piece of paper.
Which end do you guys who have the Cobra, Python or Anaconda have at the preamp: bead with logo, or no bead (meaning the beaded end is up closer to the output (source for me) component. Very confusing!
Brion,
Your confusion is completely justified. Drop Grant or Richard at Shunyata a line about the lack of clarity. I've suggested that they need to put arrows on the signal cables as they have with the SC's.
Here's the answer: the "beads" you're referring to need to be placed closest to the source from which the signal is flowing. Beads should be closest to the preamp if it is feeding an amp, closest to the DAC if it is feeding the preamp and, in the case of the digital IC, closest to the transport if it is feeding a DAC. I know this is true because my Shunyata Python XLR can only be hooked up one way and the bead is closest to the transport . The IC's are definitely directional. A buddy of mine had his cables hooked up incorrectly and it was not pleasant.
Please give us an update as the cables progress.
That's how I had oriented them, but that little yellow sheet of paper they enclose shows the bead end nearer to the preamp, so I changed it. What's your obersvation on how the sound changes if you have them oriented one way and then change them. I'm wondering how it affects the sound when you suddenly change the directional flow.
I remember that the original Andromedas had lettering showing an "amp" end and "speaker end" but the second pair of Andromedas I bought years later had no such lettering. That's unfortunate: no one should have to guess.
Brion.
All I heard from my friend was that when they were improperly oriented, the soundstage was restricted and the base was very weak. I've never changed the orientation. Grant assures me that no damage can be done....though it would require one to start over with burn in. argh!
I think I'll have to put on a choral group, because, honestly? I can't tell yet. I left it (the cd player) playing overnight with the interconnects changed over to the position it shows on the yellow sheet of paper, but was, frankly, disheartened about the whole deal. If the yellow sheet of paper is right, then it runs counter to the way things used to be: the lettering pointing towards the "inputs" of the preamp or amp. With the bead at the preamp position, as I've said before, the writing is pointing towards the CD player.
I'll just play some classic jazz singers such as Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan to see if it becomes apparent. Of course, then there's the "settling time" of the Shunyata, which isn't that long, but just to navigate behind the equipment rack to change the interconnects, I have to be a Cirque du Soleil acrobat!
Oh, the things we do for Love....of music.
Dude,
My advice is to Ignore the yellow sheet. My XLR IC's can't lie. The beads are placed closest to the source of the signal.
Hi Guys,
Given the reported confusion, I spoke to Caelin to get an explanation about directionality. The cables and the passive circuit are not at all directional, however the shielding on the cables is done in such a way that the label-end of the cable should always be facing a grounded component or the shield will not be functional. This will likely ONLY affect RCA cables in noisy environments.
Caelin had the diagram drawn so that the label end would always be closest to the pre-amp only because that is the most commonly grounded component in most systems. When people "float" grounds it is usually to an amp or a source, not the pre-amp. The only negative that can result from putting the cables in with the label-end near an ungrounded amp, for example, is that the shielding wont protect against noise. If there is noise in the area and you are using RCA's, the cables may pick it up. The chances for noise to ever be an issue with XLR's is very low for self evident reasons.
My advice is to simply put the labels closest to the source (output of each component) if you are using RCA's. If anyone notices noise being picked up, reverse the direction, especially if you have ungrounded components.
So, regarding RCA cables in systems with some ungrounded electronics, in general it is best to follow the diagram if your pre-amp is grounded. That way the shielding will be doing ist job. Other than that, direction should be a non-critical issue. I have been telling people to simply use the label end nearest the source, or out-put of each component and that seems to have worked fine so far with no reports of problems or noise (that I know of).
If anyone has other questions, please feel free to contact me or our factory directly.
Thanks,
Grant
Shunyata Research
Grant,
Thanks for the clarification!
Ok, I've been auditioning the Python IC in my system (Mark Levinson No.512 SACD/CD player, Bryston 4B SST2 amplifier, Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers) for 2 weeks now. My IC is Audioquest WBY ($4500). Yes, I know the Python is much cheaper but the buzz is that the Pythons and Anacondas are SOTA (or better!) at "real world prices." My plan was to order the Anaconda IC and SC if the Python IC was as good or better.
Compared with the Audioquest, the Python has slightly better dynamics (both micro and macro) and perform better at the frequency extremes. I have noted in the past that my other copper "references" (Kimber 1016 and Audioquest Colorado) also perform better at the frequency extremes compared with my all silver Audioquest as well as my previous Kimber 1030. The improved microdynamics make the music sound less mechanical and more fluid. On the other hand, the Audioquest WBY has significantly higher resolution, especially in the midrange, resulting in sound that is tonally denser or more harmonically saturated and in images that are more focused, weightier and palpable.
My dealer is pressing me for an answer. The Pythons currently have only ~50 hours on them but I don't think my dealer will let me keep them for 500 hours. I'm ready to (reluctantly) throw in the towel as at the end of the day I'm a resolution freak. Thoughts?
JLeeMD,
At 50 hrs on them you have not even scratched the surface of break in they require to fully come alive like none other. You have, oh, at least 450 hrs to go! Compared to my previouis silver cabling I had the Anaconda IC, SC and Anaconda/King Cobra CX series PC's blew them away. Sold 'em all.
You gotta spend a lot of time to break them in to get the bennies they provide. If your dealer is pressuring you already then you have a tough choice to make. Seriously, I have far better fullness, imaging, detailing, image placement and roundedness, height, depth, width, etc. at all frequencies than I have ever experienced before and I have owned Audioquest, Siltech, etc.
Odd
Just spoke with my dealer. He will call Grant at Shunyata to see if they can send a demo Anaconda IC for audition...
JLeeMD,
I have found that a complete run of the Pythons works best. I started with the SC's and then added the IC's. Any reason you can't run your system 24/7 for a week? My views regarding break in are in line with Odd's.
I love my Mark Levinson No.512 SACD/CD player. As a disc player, it is leagues better than my previous Esoteric X-05 in every audiophile parameter one can think of...and it can drive an amplifier directly. Transparency is breathtaking. Most significantly, it sounds much more organic, dynamic, fluid...like real music. So, I want it to last awhile and thus I am reluctant to put 500 hours non-stop on it.
Just got word from my dealer that a demo Anaconda IC is on the way!
Good show! Glad to hear it!!! Vhiner is right though. if you run these through your system all the way through including SC's, you'll be amazed. There is a reason why Robert Harley proclaimed them as SOTA as such. they are astoundingly musical, open and in every way the best I have ever heard. I have the Anaconda IC and SC's all through my system. I adore them. First time in my life as an audio nut (going on 41 years now), I can say that.
Odd
coopersank, I have enjoyed this tread and thought i would mention a few things of interest. I, like yourself, have a Triton with all Shunyata power cables mostly TOL from CX and the Ztron series along with Transparent Opus MM2 speaker cables and reference xl signal cables. I was interested enough in the new Shunyata signal cables and the new Cardas Clear Beyond cables that I had my dealers ship me both so I could try them against the Transparent cables. My mindset was hopeful that there would be an improvement and then I would sell the Transparent with maybe a few buck too in pocket to boot. I spent a whole month burning in and testing. Both Cardas and Shunyata were nice with different pluses and minuses. Neither came close to the midrange magic and air above and to the sides of speakers that the Transparent cables produced. To fill in the blanks I have Wilson Sophia III speakers, Audio Research preamp and amp and Clearaudio and Esotreic front-end. A real game changer for me has been the latest Stillpoints rack with Ultras under all units with Ultra5s under speakers and Esoteric SACD player. Those in my system have made some of biggest improvements by far. Also right behind that the qol signal completion stage unit has been amazing in it's ability to make music sound more live and alive.
Skyyone,
Glad you've found the right combination. While you provide a great deal of helpful detail, I'd be curious to know which model of signal cables you tried and the specific cord and configuration you use. I gotta save up for those Stillpoints for my Thiels CS 3.7's.
vhiner, I feel like I got a lesson in synergy. Two years ago when I set out to replace my previous system I was drawn to Audio Reseach and Wilson speakers. I had read they were bed fellows. I called both AR and Wilson and both at that time were using mostly Transparent. Knowing I could not try all the different combos of cable I decided to go with the synergy crowd. At that time a fellow who had made a ton in stock market had crashed and burned and I saw were he had 5 sets of Opus MM speaker cables for sale from his AV set-up for 25% of original cost. I sent these to Transparent to upgrade to MM2 and made specific to my speakers and amp. Still, I was hoping one of the two between Cardas and Shunyata would equal or better the Transparent cables. After 4 to 6 weeks of testing the new cables I came to a conclusion. The fact that Wilson uses Tranparent in their speakers I feel this gives a big advantage to the Tranparent based on what I hear in my system. With other brands of speakers I bet things could and would be different. As to what I tried the Anaconda Ztron signal and speaker cables. In Cardas Clear Beyond ICs and and Clear speaker cables. PS I know you will be floored by improvement Stillpoints will bring to the party.
Time for an inquiry: Has it been anyone's experience that the "cheap" ("Yeah, right, $1k is cheap, I can hear some people saying") (Cobras) take less time to break in than Pythons, or has anyone started with whatever was the least expensive (of any generation of power cords or interconnects or speaker cables) of the line and found them to take as much burn-in time as when say, you "graduated" to a Python, or Anaconda or whatever was higher up the line? Given the larger guages, I'm wondering how significant the difference is between price levels of Shunyata products concerning break-in time. (E.g., does a Cobra take 1/2 the break-in time of a Python? Does there seem to be a formula, such as: a jump from entry-level to mid-level results in twice the break-in time?)
Brion,
I have not owned the Cobras, but I do own both the Zitron Python and Anaconda pc's, as well as the speaker cables and interconnects. I found the break in of both cords and cables to be about the same, which is to say: long. The good news on the PC's is that you can use a burn in adapter and a fan to accelerate the process. I've also learned from Shunyata and my own experience that starting and stopping break-in and alternating from music to fan to burn in disc speeds things up even more. Grant at Shunyata tipped me off to this technique and I think it cuts the burn in process by half. The digital and signal cables can't be helped by a fan, so extra patience is required. Hope this helps.
Interesting, V.
I've had my Cobras since last year, so they're broken in fully. This was more a matter of curiosity about the differences in break-in time. So, you're thinking that the Cobras would follow the same path as the the Python and Anaconda and would have - if I'm reading in between the lines correctly - that the burn-in time is around 400 hours or so. Interesting, as I've been told Shunyata suggests the burn-in time is around 5-7 days. So, that's the reason for my musings.
Brion,
Shunyata's 5-7 figure is surely based upon the fan/music/rest/ burn-in disc scenario I described because I've yet to meet anyone who owns the Zitron line who thinks 166 hours of continuous normal music playback quite does the trick. I consider the Zitron cords to be full fledged components in my system, so I don't several hundred hours of break in to be surprising or daunting. That said, I'm sure you agree that the cords' merits can be heard immediately upon hooking them up...it just takes time for them to fully reveal their complete magic.
I've used the XLO burn in disc, a fan and music for the power cables.
I noticed that Marc Mickelson's review said that he only had the Zi-Tron Cobra interconnects and speaker cables in for a couple of weeks, so they were perhaps "not even halfway burned in, but they were still up to the task." Forgive my conclusions, but I WAS a detective at one point in my life, and it is clear that he didn't use a fan for the interconnects and speaker cables, so that would seem not to agree with Shunyata suggesting the "5-7 day" approach, although I suppose one could speculate he used a burn-in disc and music. In any case, I'm sure they (the speaker cables/nterconnects) would sound great (the cords do: that much I know), as soon as you hook them up.
So, JUST for the sake of enlightening others, do you think the power cords also take 500 hours to fully break in, regardless of whether it's Cobras, Pythons, or Anaconda Zi-Trons (remember that this can be googled, and many people will be googling "how long do Shunyata Zi-Tron power cables/interconnects/speaker cables take to break in?"), so this thread will actually be spreading the experience of those of us who own them out to others (if that's not too grand a way to look at it). I've never "measured" them, as my equipment had some...malfuncttions it took a while to discover and dispose of - and that only after a VERY long time owning it. A VERY unpleasant discovery: thousands and thousands - and several thousand more - dollars later, I realized why my system didn't sound right. And the Cobras were a part of that system for the last year, so even though they broke in, until I "rehabilitated" my system, I couldn't figure out why it sounded so two-dimensional and lacking in air, depth, spatial perspectives, textures et al.
At one point, I (re) bought a Convergent SL-1 preamp, thinking it must have been the preamp I then had in the system at the time that was causing it. But the Convergent ALSO sounded flat - and I had owned 3 versions of that preamp from 1988-93 and I was extremely familiar with its sound and knew instantly that there was ALSO something wrong with the Convergent, which I had purchased (used) from a dealer in California. That's another story, but finally tracking down the problem took what seemed like a lifetime [as though one was a teenager waiting for the school day to end) (and yes, I removed the Convergent preamp and sent it to Ken Stevens to examine: it turned out that someone had changed the power supply and not "seated" it correctly, causing it to be noisy) and further delaying my "investigation." It took a piece by piece re-building of my system (hence, the multi-thousand dollar outlay). The Cobras came into that system, and it was only months after that, that I found out what was wrong. So, even though they [the Cobra power cords] have a few thousand hours on them, I couldn't tell you about the break-in process, because the offending component, instead of revealing changes in the system, HID THEM. So, the system sounded better, but under those circumstances, the break-in process was hidden by the much greater colorations of the offending component overwhelming - and minimizing - the improvements. That's part of the reason forums are helpful for those who are considering any given component: they point out the traps that the owners may not have considered (impedance mismatches, component mismatches, or just plain old colorations so great, they overwhelm the improvements that a new component is bringing to the system). I'm reminded of the Audio Research SP-9 debacle that happened at Stereophile, which was cleared up by Aaron Shatzmann, who wrote the SP-9 review for TAS and discovered the issue of impedance mismatches. It's good that he had a methodology, or there would've been another poor review of the '9. The same kind of misunderstanding can easily happen with the Shunyatas (or any other highly advanced componentry) if others don't understand mismatches, or other issues (I include break-in time under that heading).
Forums help in more ways than they appear to, to the uninitiated.
Brion,
My sympathies for your equipment trials and tribulations.
With regard to the burn in question, I can only share my experience and it certainly isn't the last word on the subject. I've burnt in two Zitron Anacondas, one Zitron Python and and an entire loom of Zitron Python digital, IC's and SC's. The digital required nearly 600 hours, the other signal cables were burnt in with music and the Isotek disc and weren't fully settled until around 450-500 hours. The first Anaconda took 500 hours of normal music playback, whereas the subsequent Anaconda and Python PC's were treated to the varied method and were pretty decent by about 250 hours. That's my unscientific, subjective opinion. My Thiel CS3 .7's are among the most accurate and revealing speakers available plus I'm a pretty vigilant listener, so I may notice things others don't. I'm not implying other speakers or others' ears aren't as good, it's just that the Thiels are brutally revealing when it comes to equipment changes. FWIW.
V:
I trust your observations: you have enough Shunyata - and equally revealing equipment - that I have no doubt your observations are correct.
I don't think there is such a thing as the "last word" on a subject, given that we have different systems burning in with lower/higher voltages and God knows what else. And Thiels are known to be tremendously revealing, so I'm satisfied with your answer. A friend of mine has the Cobras and is letting me keep them while he's out of the country. They're relatively new: less than 2 weeks old, so this is about the same length of time that Marc Mickelson had them before he wrote his Cobra review. I'll have them today. I'll be told exactly how many hours are on them, as this person is meticulous about the time he's put on anything new. Besides which, I've heard them at his house and it seemed that the sound was "narrow," as though out of an episode of the orginal "Outer Limits" when a 2-D creature made its way into our dimension/universe. The instruments had width, but the depth of, say, a marching drum, was not quite as full on the drumhead as it should have been, almost like taking a photo with a telescope lens: the people behind the main person seem like the "back half" of the bodies had been cut off and you were only seeing the front. I think JV mentioned this about the Magnepan 1.7s, when he said the depth of an individual image lacked fullness. I like to compare it to an accordion: when an accordion is compressed, it is only around 18 inches compressed, but fully opened, it can be several feet wide. Of course, many instruments have width, but not much depth (a flute, for example), but a drum has a diameter and circumference, so from the front to the back of the drum, it might be 24" front to back. I just noticed when I listened to Ella, she didn't seem as "deep" as she had on prior systems. 'Course, that could be any component in the system, but I tend to think that instruments strong in mid-bass energy have a solid, tangible, or what most call "palpable" depth to the image. (HP taught me this). I think of it as "solidity."
In any case, the Shunyata components of old (specifically, the original Andromeda [the 3rd update to it, as I've had both the original Andromeda, which is actually closer to 10-12 gauge than 8 gauge, as later versions were, as well as either the 3rd or 4th version [ I know not which: I never even knew they had different iterations of it until recently]) and the version I had had strongly palpable images. I'll be interested to see if the Cobra reaches that level of solidity around 450-500 hours or so. I find it easier to use a vocalist, such as Ella Fitzgerald and Joe Pass on her "Speak Low" cd, which is nothing but Joe's guitar and Ella's voice. Even though it's not a good recording, you can still hears aspirants from Ella, her breathing, phrasing and everything that makes Ella, "ELLA." And Joe's guitar was extremely focused in my old system, so this will be an interesting test.
I want to thank you for sharing your information about what you've experienced with an entire "collection" of Shunyata products, as that makes it easier to trust that it isn't just, say, the power cords, or the speaker cables, or the digitals. You've got 'em all!!!! So, it would be fair to consider you an authority (and if you don't like that word, how about a "knowledgeable, experienced verteran" of their products). I'll trust your observations.
Thanks, Brion. "Knowledgable" works for me! Look forward to hearing your impressions when they've properly settled. The Zitrons are especially susceptible to jostling, so it'll take a day or two before they calm down from being moved (I know it sounds crazy, but several veteran users concur on this)
V.
As far as burn in of power cables I took Shunyatas advice to pre burn in cables by powering an air-conditioner and/ big air filter system for 2 weeks. That way I did not suffer through break-in period and wonder when it ended. I tried both ways and that was much better.
Marc,
That's certainly the best course, but I couldn't find a burn in adapter for a 20 amp cord. Essentially, you have to hook a 20 amp cord up to a conditioner and then run a fan or lamps through the conditioner to draw a resistive load.
Of course, the BEST alternative is find a used Cable Cooker or buy one new. That makes a decided huge difference and far better burn in than any other avenue. A friend has one that I keep saying he's going to find one day it is suddenly "missing" from his spare room. Ha!
It is an investment, however. But then again, what's $800-$1,000 (or much less for a used one) for one you'll use many times over the years compared to one power cable? One should use the C/C every 3-4 months to freshen up one's cables. I have been looking for one, as well. My buddy that has it swears by it even on cables he's had for several years and uses daily. Once he put them all on for 72 hrs for a freshen up he was stunned at the improvements in all areas.
Shunyata were specific not to use cable cookers so I got adaptor like vhiner suggested.
In fact Shunyata sells the burn-in adaptors recommended by Grant and Paul. They fear cable cookers are too much and can cause problems. So be forewarned.