Shunyata's 2011 Python speaker cables and interconnects
vhiner -- Thu, 05/05/2011 - 19:05
I have the newest Shunyata speaker cables and interconnects, which were unveiled at CES 2011. I am eager to compare notes with someone else who is using them. To my ears, they have a more profound impact on my system than even the legendary CX line of power cords. They blow away my previous reference, the Harmonic Technology Magic Woofer speaker cables and and Magic II interconnects, which are mighty fine, btw.I keep asking myself, "How can cables do this?" I'd love to hear how they compare to other cables and in other systems. I am using them in a Thiel 3.7/Conrad-Johnson/ PerfectWave/ Classe system to amazing effect.
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Coopersark,
Don't be coy. Of course, we want to hear your impressions! I'd like to hear how you experience the break in of these new PC's as well. Odd and I have found the signal cables to require significant break in after the first few glorious hours. I think it would be helpful for others who are considering trying them out to know what to expect and not be rattled by the rather big shifts in sound.
vhiner --
I won't be changing signal cables in my main for the foreseeable future. I use Transparent Opus MM II (Levinson Reference electronics throughput and Magico Q5's) and I am absolutely delighted with them. I have also found an amazing synergy in the context of both of my audio systems using Transparent for signal and Shunyata for power. I like reading what you have to say about the Shunyata signal cables, as I may be eventually tempted to try them in my secondary system (Audio Research Reference gear w/ Magnepan), as I know that Audio Research uses Shunyata product, and they are relatively reasonably priced. I will be delighted to share my results when I have had time to break them in and listen. Based on my extensive experience with Shunyata, I have a feeling that I may be replacing all of the King Cobra's with the Anaconda ZiTrons. Caelin Gabriel has never ever disappointed when he has developed an upgrade!
coopersark
I never fix anything that isn't broken, either. :-)
Exactly. Stick with what works!
coopersark
Cooper:
It shouldn't take anywhere near that long for the cables to break in. Plug one into some kind of extender that has 4 or 5 plugs, and put a fan on it, or, if you have some type of small conditioner (like a PS Audio ultimate outlet), plug your refrigerator (if you can reach the plug easily) into the PS Audio (or whatever you have) and then plug the power cord into the wall.
Weeks??? No waaaay, my friend. More like 100 hours. Although, ask Grant, who told me around 100 hours. I'm sure they do the usual small improvements over time, but I heard significant changes last night and that was only 72 hours.
The "jump" will surpass previous generations, the same as the speaker cables. What was fascinating last night was that I was listening to "The Planets" on the Hyperion label and was listening to "Mars" and I could hear the conductor grunting softly. Nothing unusual about more low-level information, except that it had much of the full harmonic detail (a trait of the Hurricanes) so it was not just a sound, but an exhalation with complete harmonic information.
I can't fathom you posting that they AREN'T "significant." Not even a remote possibility. "Jump" is the wrong word for the Zi-Tron cables: "Pulse" or "spring out" are much better words, although not as "catch-sounding." YOU, however, WILL "jump."
brion,
That would be great if that is the case! I am very sensitive to break in and have found that the large Shunyata power cables take about a month to six weeks to fully burn in, but that they do get about 90% of the way there after about a week. They will continue to "sweeten and mellow" and give a better sense of "spaciousness" and "air" after a good four to six weeks of continual current draw. The fatter the wire gauge the longer it takes. The King Cobra's took longer than my Python to burn in. I have extensive experience with Shunyata's top power products. I have owned and employed what seems to be a countless amount of these products over several generations. (Current count - 3 Triton conditioners, 11 King Cobra CX, 2 Anaconda CX, and one Python CX.)
Not only are Shunyata's power products invaluable, but in the context of my two highly resolving systems, I find them essential!
In the mean time, all I can do is patiently wait, as Shunyata is about two weeks away from beginning the assembly of the Anaconda ZiTron power cables. Since these are going into my Triton conditioners and my main system's front end is either "on" or in "standby" there will be a constant current draw on those cables. They will break in where they will be used. It is always good to have something to look forward to and I will report my findings after I have carefully listed and given thought to my new experience with them.
coopersark
An afterthought:
I found it easier to orient the tube traps so the instruments' dimensionality improved. Tube traps are great, but can fool you if you have them oriented incorrectly (I see it in dealer's room all the time). With the Zi-Tron Cobras, it was much, much easier to figure out the correct orientation of the traps for instruments that spanned bass to midrange, such as harps. I had one trap that was probably 1/32" "off" in the way I had it in the upper corner (near the ceiling: my room goes from 8' to 10" abruptly, due to an addition on the house years ago, so there are 2 more corners for bass to gather in). Prior to the 3rd cord arriving and me putting in on the Quantum, I didn't notice this. But the clarity of sound was so much more obvious, I spent 10 minutes moving the trap 1/50" at a time, just to see if I could hear differences, and if the differences were improvements. They were.
Ya poor guy! Two weeks? As Snoopy would say , "ARGHHHH!!!!!!!" (or was that Lucy?!?!)
Two weeks is for-EV-er when you're waiting for cables.
And good of you to point out that the bigger cables take longer to break in. I knew the gauge was bigger, but forgot about that part. Given how fantastic the Cobras are, I'd probably appear to be on drugs with the Anacondas (I can be excitable at times!). "YES!!! YES!!! YEEESSSSSSS!" while my family thinks silently,"He must have gotten new equipment. Scatter (!) before he drags us all in to listen."
As I've said, nobody makes a product that they build better, yet charge less for in the audio world (aside from Shunyata) and especially cables (interconnect, speaker and power), the most absurd pricing of any of the audio components in High End. It's almost depressing to think that the stereo system I had back in 1988, which was around 40K, would be classified as a "mid-priced" system these days.
brion,
Two weeks is nothing. I am quite happy with what I have and as I said, it is always good to have something to look forward to. If I make the decision to chage all of my currrent Shunyata King Cobra CX's to the new Anaconda ZiTron's, it will take many months to implement. I am paitent and methodical.
I've made this comment before, and I will make it again, as it is so apt a response to the last part of your comment above. This is stated "tounge in cheek!":
There was a time, not long ago, when if someone said ,"You're audio system sounds like a million!", it was taken as a compliment. At the rapid rate of price inflation that the high end is experiencing today, that statement will soon be interpreted as an insult!
coopersark
coopersark,
Ain't it the truth! I think I need to get a job on Wall Street to keep up with this! At present, I do not plan to add the ZiTron AC cables after having just plunked down over $25,000 for the KC and Anaconda CX's. My Zitron signal cables (my system is all Anaconda ZiTron signal cables front to speaker cables) coupled with this can sound magnificent and as Vhiner has told me about his system which is basically the same, he has never heard his sound this good. My ZiTron signal cables are taking a long time to break in and I am not all the way there yet. I have a couple more weeks to go with them to get "there". At times, when they do come into their own for a short while during this process, I am astounded at what I hear. The signal cables are truly quite something to behold. I hear details emerging at times that are striking both in the fact they emerge and in their immediacy and transient speed. Early on I tried the Sheffield Drum/Track record on the FIM DXD version and it was, even at the beginning of the break in process, astounding the dynamic immediacy and slam I received in my system which had never been there before.
I may, in a spot or two, in time, add a Cobra or Anaconda ZiTron PC over time but that will be a while. Like you said above, it will take a long time to implement any changes. Plus the fact I am now about destitute after having re-wired my system over $30K or so including both the PC's and ZiTron signal cables over the past 4 months.
Incidentally, I have a Python ZiTron XLR digital cable arriving tonight to audition against my current HDMI I2S digital connection between my transport and DAC. It will be very interesting once it is basically broken in initially to A-B these two and see if the ZiTron + VTX + CDA101 + Cryo'd cable will beat out the pure I2S data stream. Certainly, I have never been a fan of the tiny HDMI connections and feel the are an impediment to the digital flow, so the XLR will be interesting. I should be able to do the first test sometime late this weekend. If it does for the digital what I know (from early first installations of the ZiTron signal cables - specifically one XLR signal cable between my preamp and amp) the ZiTron signal cables can do, this is going to be a lot of fun.
Odd
Odd,
The road/journey never ends! Put another way, the ladder to sonic nirvana always has another rung above where we are, doesn't it? (Until we individually decide it that its the end of the road, or the top rung of the ladder, but that ain't livin' that's simply existin'!!!) Please share your results with us on that digital cable. I know that I am interested in what you discover and have to say about it!
coopersark
coopersark,
Will do. Give me a couple weeks (sounds familiar doesn't it?) :)
Again, I have to say ain't it the truth! No matter where we are and we think we've gotten "there", there always is a bigger fish.
I am looking forward to this a great deal. Y'all have a great day!
BTW - it is great to see this thread resurrected again with some zeal and zest.
Odd
Odd,
Another analogy is that we are archeologists who are continually striving to "unearth" another level of our musical treasures. There is no greater thrill than hearing more previously undetected information in the recorded content of our favorite albums. Every formally hidden detail or nuance allows that recorded music to become even more accessible to us and to have a stronger meaning of artistic intent. In the end it is the music and for us archeologists it is way more than just a beat and a tune - it is an emotional connection!
coopersark
One thing that archeologists unearth frequently in their discoveries is caprolite. You have unleashed quite a bit of it in this thread. Bull caprolite, specifically. You definitely need to spend more money in order to reach your expectation of audio bliss. That may be your only way to achieve it, scientific knowledge is definitely not your strong point.
mofungoo --
Since you seem to be the "self qualified expert" on all matters from audio to archeology, why do you not tell us how you achieve your expectation of sonic bliss (of course without spending any money - that would be great!), and if that sonic bliss has, in fact, been achieved, please tell us why you bother to make your irrelevant comments to our discussion. We are all dying to know!
coopersark
I am not "self qualified". I have a MS in EE and have been an engineer for 42 years now. What I have done for myself is to install a balanced power system in the listening room, the same as recording studios, computer rooms and hospitals (the orange receptacles you see there are the balanced power). That takes care of any noise issues from the AC line. After that, acoustical treatments for the room, the right speakers for the room properly placed, and decent electronics. Copper wire to hook it all up. BTW, a balanced isolation transformer and a double pole breaker can be bought for less than $300, and about that much for an electrician to install. That's the professional approach.
Mofungo --
Why do you think that many top recording studios are investing in and using Shunyata equipment? Why are may top mastering studios using Shunyata power conditioning equipment and other brands of signal cables? Just curious as to your opinion....
coopersark
I didn't say all Shunyata equipment is bogus, just their (and most other) magic cables. We are dealing with perception with audio, and if you truly believe that pink colored cables make a difference to sound quality then they will, to you. It must be nice to live in a dream world and not have to worry about reality. Really.
Greetings Mofungoo,
Alright, now that you have taken the time to graciously give your thoughts. Would you kindly leave us fellow Shunyata enthusiasts alone, so that we can continue our conversation with each other. Your comments have proven to be a distraction from the topic of this thread - Shunyata products.Thank you for your consideration.
coopersark
coopersark,
AMEN to that! Your description is exactly why those naysayers who believe all cables, components and speakers sound alike and there is no need to buy more than 20 cent zip cord have no idea what the true intent is all about. There is musical noise and there is "music" which connects to your soul in a deep, meaningful way which can move you beyond words to describe that is far more than just the macro sound delivered to your years. That emotional connection is the holy grail which few who strive to find it, actually really ever get close to acheiving either due to missteps or lack of funds necessary to obtain those components/speakers and/or cabling which in the right combination elevate your system to that level. I know my basic system could improve in meaningful ways, no doubt. The replacement of all my cabling with Shunyata has, for me, in all the years I have been in this crazy hobby, brought that ideal closer than I thought ever possible. I know with only a few changes, that will increase markedly from here. But what a wonderful base to work with!
I do admire your speakers a great deal. You are a very lucky man, indeed. Magico's were very aptly named.
Here's to Indiana Jones and the musical crusade!
odd
Financially those naysayers are better off, but for true emotional enjoyment of recorded music they are poverty stricken!
coopersark
Coopersark, you will have a lot to look forward to when you get the cables.
And I am patient and methodical in my setups, but knowing a new component that, as you put it, "unearths" another level of musical treasure, is arriving, puts me more in the mind of a child waking up early on Christmas Day before the parents. I CAN wait, but as Einstein put it, approaching life with the awe and curosity of a child also means with the enthusiasm of a child.
I've noticed that I don't get too unhinged over other components arriving, but when Shunyata releases something new and I know it's coming soon, the child in me arises -- and I let him! It's fun to be excited and holding one's breath with anticipation. Besides, it's the child that spurs the discovery, not the adult.
I've now started wondering what the Python cable would do. I still have a few more components that I could upgrade, but I want to get my Magnepan 1.7s first. I decided I wanted to see what could be done for less than 2K is current speaker technology and I haven't had a brand new speaker in a while. I've the feeling that the Shunyata, the Magnepan, the Hurricanes, and the First Sound (upgrading to MK III) will be quite stunning, although I've also got my eye on one of CJ's preamps, and, of course, I have the Odyssey Khartago - the super, souped-up one that Klaus put god-only-knows-what inside it to make it the equivalent of a Khartago Deluxe (which cost another $1,000), so I'm set for the resolution (left brain) part of me, the musical (right brain ) part and the kill-me-right-now-RIGHT NOW-I-AM-IN-HEAVEN part of me. (That last part? I don't take its advice at all.)
Furthering Brion's comments above, I received my Python XLR ZiTron digital cable last evening and even before I installed it I was very impressed with its looks, fit and finish. Very well done, Shunyata!!
Installing it, I found the XLR connectors are first rate. In all my years, I have never had an XLR connector both male or female end that fit as snugly and perfectly as this does. I let it initially settle in for a few hours last night running silently while I watched TV.
I was warned by Shunyata to give it at least 3 days minimum burn in and ideally 4-5 before I began to A-B it in a critical session. Like Brion states above, the child in me just could not wait for Christmas and had to peek, so I took a quick 10 minute listen last night just before retiring. I hesitate to give an initial impression as it is not even begun to break in, but...
I can say right now, without hesitation, as an initial impression, that if this cable stayed exactly the way it is right now, basically cold, new, and sounded this way for the rest of my life before I go deaf, blind and dumb (well, worse than I am now) from old age I would be in audio heaven in a state of utter nirvana. (Man, I gotta get my tubes back up and in my system!).
My digital transport to DAC allows for a direct I2S digital feed albeit having to use an HDMI cable connection to do so. Until now, I have relied on this as my sin-quo-non connection for digital data transfer. Unfortunately, as we all know, the HDMI connection is not the best, plus the choices of cables to utilize are severely limited, thus limiting your ultimate data transfer in the process. The Shunyata XLR Python digital cable profoundly trounced my HDMI I2S digital transfer in such a way as to bring me to my aural knees. I could hardly sleep last night thinking, my god, if this is just the beginning, what will I behold upon full break in?
At least one other reviewer of my digital equipment found a similar conclusion when they tried the I2S connection and ultimately ended up using the XLR balanced cable between the transport and DAC. The used the Nordost Oden digital cable and found not only did they not lose anything by not using the I2S connection, but further found the Oden based XLR connection gave them a wider bandwidth (top and bottom end reproduction) with more wealth in harmonics, instrumental tonal color, detailing and vivid reproduction than the I2S digital connection did.
I would say I had that same result but in spades, diamonds, clubs and hearts!
The disc I listened to is one I use for break in quite a bit and a test disc as it was an early digitally produced CD quite a long time ago but has a wonderful wind ensemble performance of two of Mozart's works I love to hear late in the evening to relax. It has always had a digital glare to it and a closed, harsh digital sound even with the Anaconda ZiTron signal cables I now have and the King Cobra/Anaconda CX power cords throughout. That is, until last evening's short, but incredibly sweet performance.
As soon as I cued it up, I found not only did the digital glare completely, and I mean COMPLETELY disappear, but what was replaced with was an open, huge, deep and immediately transparent sound stage that I have never heard in this disc in over 20 years of owning it. I was immediately transported in all essence to the recording venue sitting perhaps 10th row from the musicians. Instrumental dynamics bouncing off the rear of the recording venue, cues floating around and bouncing off of side walls that were immense and life size, you name it. Instrumental trueness and color that blew my proverbial socks off. Musican instrumental separation with complete immediate outlines of each player, easily discerning their individual position on the stage and a roundedness to those instruments suggesting real, live instruments, not a digital cut out sonic reproduction. I could easily see/hear the musicians subtely move as they played, rustling of the pages of their music sheets on the stands, you name it. Dynamic flow of the music was wonderully analog like with a grain that was reduced from what I know I have heard for so many years to a level to suggest pure analog. Wow. It is clear there is a lot more here than just a confirmation of perfect 1's and 0's being transferred and the timing thereof. A lot more. I can not believe my ears what extreme low level event "air" and spaciousness was being conveyed that supposedly Red Book CD digital just could not possess below its normal standard "noise floor" which should, theoretically, not be able to convey due to the least significant bit not being large enough to possess that kind of data. Wrong. Somehow, it is conveying just that in a way I thought never existed.
Caelin Gabriel made it clear to Richard @ Shunyata to tell me the Python and Cobra digital cables have by far the most profound noticeable effect from the ZiTron inclusion and he is dead center on target. They possess the most profound square wave improvement of all the signal and power cords using the ZiTron technology. No kidding.
So, I am beginning the long road to break in now and in a few weeks will report my ultimate findings. For now, it is very safe to say this cable, which I bought with the intention of doing an A-B comparison as a technical loaner and return in 10 days If I was not certain it improved my I2S connected digital feed, will NOT be returned and I am keeping it, period. If it improves over what I hear now you may just find me weeks later, dehydrated and starving on my couch for lack of moving away from sonic nirvana. You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers if this cable improves over what my initial, ableit short, audition revealed last evening. :)
More to follow later this month when it is all settled in. My ultimate review/comments forthcoming. Consider this an initial thought, for now, but consider me at the moment completely in aural love. We'll see if that love affair will be an ongoing lifelong marriage or a one night fling.
Odd
Odd,
But did you really like it? ;-)
What's the list on the Python digital?
Vhiner,
Ummm, methinks it is a keeper. A lot more to go as I say in the final line, but wow. It lists if I recall for $750. I would check on Galen Carol, Cable Co or Music Direct websites.
Odd
Odd,
Duh. I should've checked. $750 it is.
It's cool you'll be able to A/B quickly on the PWDAC. I'll be interested in hearing whether the XLR handles hirez as well as the I2S.
Yup. My second phase of burn in this weekend will be the hi rez stuff.
Odd
The meaning of the word "Shunyata" is "emptiness." In audio parlance, that means empty space in the silence between the notes.
In another, deeper layer of the word, it means "frugality" as in "one need not empty ones pockets in order to acquire the fullness of life." I am really proud of Shunyata for not aspiring in their pricing, to appeal to the 1%, whose unspoken byword is "I can spend $300k without breathing hard" for the best. It's almost like having Goldman Sachs trumpet their bonuses after having asked the US government - and by extension, the taxpayer -- to allow them to give bigger bonuses.
Now we have the "little guy," Shunyata, saying, for $3k, we can bring you 98% -- if not 99% of what the 15k speaker cables (such as Nordost, Synergistic and oh, the grandmother of all, Opus cables) can do. Entirely admirable for the 98% or 90% or even those in the 50% earning levels.
The cables speak for themselves -- as long as you KNOW what live music sounds like -- and how it moves thru the air.
This is what's meant by "revolution": taking the cake away from the Marie Antoinettes and giving it to the people. Magnepan is also doing this, as is, say, First Sound Audio, which puts out an upgrade once every 8-10 years.
Glad to see pricing is once more at the forefront of our consciousness, but only if it co-habitates with the word "value." The Shunatas and Magnepans combine both the aforementioned Far East meaning of "Shunyata" with Benjamin Franklin's statement about spending so much money that it puts us in the debt of another. (China, anyone???)
That certainly won't happen with superior products at this level pf pricing. And we can ALL enjoy our music!!!
Amen, Brion! I lived so much of my life in debt for that reason. It has only been the past 5 years that I became debt free and intend to remain that way unless an unforeseen catastrophic event occurs. I was lucky in that an inheritance provided me the means to obtain my Shunyata's and enjoy what you desccribe above as all of us are enjoying. I second your motion for applaud to Caelin and company. They also, along with you and I am certain so many others would agree, should reap the benefits of their pricing stance. As well, they should, and I would be out in front holding a banner along the parade.
Ben Franklin was a genius. Only one who has been in the stranglehold of debt would know what he means. The freedom of not being so is a blessing.
My Python digital had 48 hrs on it as of last evening. Upon another 20 minute session with it last night before retiring I found its attributes to remain, albeit somewhat woolly as it is going through its eventual break in process. I expect it should begin to clean up in the next day or two again and will confirm additional improvements. The main benefits remained last evening, just a bunching of instrumental placement along the lines of each speaker plane a bit instead of spreading out. Don't get me wrong. The decoupling of images from the speakers was still complete and they disappeared without a trace with my eyes closed. I could just tell with my eyes open where the sounds were placed in relation to the speaker placement in my room. Images and staging were still wonderfully big, open, wide and deep. So much so my listening window had still remained far larger without image wander which is still extraordinary.
More to follow soon.
Odd
It has now been about 3 weeks since I installed the Python digital AES/EBU XLR ZiTron digital cable and I am not only sticking with my story above, but adding to it. This cable allows for the most cleanly produced analog sound I have ever experienced in digital audio to date. Even standard red book CD sounds like it has been upsampled to 24/192 in terms of instrumental color, density, weight and tone. I can not hear a hint of grain any longer, either, even on the best discs and systems which no matter what provide a hint of digital hardness. It is gone, at least in my current PS Audio transport and MK II DAC. Compared to the I2S HDMI connection it is far more smooth, sweeter and with a natural flow and ease to the musical presentation allowing it to just blossom. I am very impressed, indeed.
This is one digital cable that is not going back.
Odd
What a crock. Cable break in? They are passing AC unless something is wrong with your equipment. You guys just think you are hearing something. And so do I.
Sure, mofungoo... anything you say. You must be the guru of all cable knowledge here. Let's just say we agree to completely disagree and leave it at that.
mofungoo,
I think you've confused this thread with the "let's heckle happy hobbyists because we have nothing better to do" thread over at the Flat Earth Society website. I think you'll be much more comfortable there...unless you want us to visit your favorite thread and post disparaging comments about what *you* post. . Or you could go try out the cables in question..then you'd have an opinion. Until then, please start your own thread or stick to the OP's question. You have read that, haven't you?
The Flat Earth Society doesn't believe in scientific evidence to the contrary, much like yourself. I have "listened" to several of the products mentioned and could hear no difference. If one chooses to spend money on ineffective products and then cluster together with like minded individuals in order to convince each other of the wisdom of their purchases, that's fine. My opinion is fact-based. There is no "cable break-in" at all with AC wiring.
And so you say... yet you do not provide details why, only that you give your word and the world is supposed to take it at that. I suppose if you have no hearing left you might find that to be true, or enjoy your R/S special system. The more detailed your system is, the easier it is to hear the differences. Of couse, Mr. mofungo provides no details how long he listened to said products, either.
I believe the point has been said earlier. Personally, you believe what you wish and I will what I know to be true to my ears after 40+ years in this hobby. We are each entitled to our own beliefs and opinions. Only those with closed minds or the "flat earth society" is more one you profess to enjoy, not those who have an open mind and have taken the time, effort and wisdom to listen to the differences. Such as those without that open mindedness believe all cables sound the same, all equipment sounds the same, etc. To them, I feel rather sorry as they miss the beauty of the musical enjoyment of the best equipment, cabling and software. I can only profess what I know. THAT is the proof I need, not scientific substantiation. There is far more going on in every aspect of the musical reproductive event in a system that is not known. Science is not the be-all-end-all those who believe it to be. It is a beginning, a part. The universe is a lot more complex with much more going on in the process of converting AC into an audio signal than we all know. Otherwise, every capacitor, resistor type, circuit layout, etc. with the same componentry should, by scientific explanation, sound the same, yet they do not. It is the unknown, yet understood aspects of the process we mere humans do not yet possess the understanding to explore and understand. Why do different firmware's sound different in the same digital component? The 1's and 0's are the same yet something changed causing a sonic difference, an issue going on in a separate thread on a separate site at present. Even the designer has taken the time to listen to both and easily hears they do not sound the same, yet the basic programming in both firmware versions are essentially the same except for one change to update how the graphic interface - a non-audio portion of the program - was changed and scientifically in the digital world just should not affect it, yet it has. Why? Because there is more going on than you realize. If you took the time, effort and patience to truly listen to not just the macro changes but the micro changes you would know. As a long time musician I was trained to listen into the music, through the threads, the point, counterpoint, and inner voices of the band and orchestra to blend appropriately. My ear, as with any trained musician, is trained to listen for such changes and thus they are easily discerned.
Perhaps, you should consider that not all is the same or we'd all look, sound, think and act alike. Such as it is in audio, video. Each has its own personality that is thrust upon the remainder of a system as are our complex personalities.
Enjoy your own realm. I, for one, revel in the sonic joy I receive, with a system that communicates a wealth of joy, sorrow, and true excitement far beyond the playing of notes.
Enjoy your day.
Odd -
You are right on. It is not that some guys can't hear, but the limited resolution and mis matching of their audio systems that do not permit them to hear the improvements that others so easily perceive. It is ironic that the more resolving the equipment and the more tuned the listening room the easier it is to hear improvements. In the case of Mr. Gabriel, he has made this his life's work. For guys like you and me, it is our life's passion.
We did not reach a place where we could afford fine audio equipment by being either stupid or gullible. We know what we hear and accept it for that. It is the reason that we are having a good discussion about Shunyata products on this thread.
I expect to receive a couple of Anaconda ZiTron AC's in a few more week's time. I am also expecting delivery on a couple of the new Cyclops power conditioners. I want to try them on my Levinson Reference mono block amps (each on a dedicated 20 amp line.) If they work, I will keep them in place, and if not I will be moving one of the Cyclops to my secondary system. I recently plugged the amp (Audio Research D-300) on that secondary system into the Triton that I am using on that system and could not believe the improvement in dynamics, clarity, frequency extension, detail, and focus, with no down side! (I am just more comfortable running the power amp on a separate line, so we will see. I will report my findings as soon as I can, but again, it will be a few weeks time away.)
coopersark
You are confused. You seem to think that all knowledge is merely a matter of opinion and/or preference. No. Knowledge in this case is a matter of fact. Making an uninformed opinion equivalent to a scientifically determined fact is arrogance at its worst. The "realm" in which I operate is called reality and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's folks like you that give true audiophiles a bad name. Go squander your inheritance, and I hope you have a good time doing it. A fool and his money are soon parted.
Mofungo,
Now you're getting nasty. Coopersark has never attacked your character. One more of these posts from you and I will report your posts to av admins. Two people have already been banned for similar bouts of mean spirited heckling. Stick to the OP's original request, which is for comments from people who have actually used the latest cables. If you can't, you are violating av forum guidelines. If you haven't read them, you should.
mofungo,
The interesting thing I find about this type of thinking is that what is fact today is fact, period. It is knowledge known today that tomorrow''s discoveries, caused directly by opinion and thought, that brings about the next revelation. Case in point - what we know today about black holes vs. what was known and thought 20 years ago to be "fact" at that time. This is true of every scientific discipline including electrical engineering. My cousin who also is an engineer, spent the better part of his life working with circuits and design. He also is a life long audiophile. He was one of the principle founders of Rocket Labs in S.F., built the first ADC converter for MoFi's first gold Ultradisc CD series and the first professional studio digital mixing console for Ampex back in the 1970's. The man is an engineering genius. He is also a life long audiophile. We learn from the observations we see around us and take those observations and attempt to understand them. Fact, as you state it is a direct result of opinions, or hypothesis, and the attempt to discover why an observation creates what we see hear or feel. Facts, however, are only as good as the current technology allows it to be. I guaranteed you much of what you hold to as engineering fact today witll be refuted or altered with tomorrow's technological advances. This is human nature and to be stuck in 40 year old ideas and thought processes without exploring to understand or break out of the narrow "I have to only understand as far as I can explain it by engineering principles I know today" thought process is, to m, archaic, and sad. Engineers by nature can not understand or contemplate anything unless they can explain it by today's known mathematical principles. Faith in God is one where they can not grasp, yet to many it exists.
Frankly, I for one, never lay my head on the "facts" as we know it today to be the be all end all of everything in nature. There is very little we do understand in today's technological know-how. Nature reminds us of that "fact" daily.
I feel sorry that you can not see beyond your own "intellectual" limitations. Learn to feel, think outside the box, to grow. Or, stay stagnant inside. Seems to me you are too set in your ways. I am in my fifties, and frankly, still wonder at the world and marvel at what I learn each day. One's ego can get in the way of personal and emotional growth. Too bad. I see this so often and I am feel very sorry for those who do. Life is an adventure. Learn to live it as such.
Odd
Mofungoo,I imagine that all of the facts are already known and exist and our days of learning and discovery are over. DTCD measurements by Shunyata are bogus, the thoughts behind the DTCD measurements are unfounded, and that we are all a gullible pack of idiots. As far as an inheritance, that is not me! I buy audio gear from a budgeted current cash flow, with an emphasis on budget! Again, you have expressedyour thoughts. Kindly leave us alone.
coopersark
ROFLMAO
Guys,
This forum is NOT going to be hijacked by yet another fruitless debate over "beliefs" which can never be resolved. I suggest we ignore irrelevant posts and when posters violate forum guidelines for civil discourse that we ask admins to remove them. This is tired old ground. Agreed?
Absolutely, 100%
Odd
I'm so sorry I did not realize that this is the Shunyata Forum, where opposing views are not tolerated. So pat each other on the back while assuring each other of the wisdom of your purchases. Dont forget to purchase the cable elevators Shunyata sells, as they are reputed to reduce burn-in time by 50% or so.
Mofungoo,
This is a forum for the exchanging of people's actual real life experiences with Shunyata's new line of cables. This particular thread was not established to debate "ideas." You should muster up the courage to start a debate thread if that's what you want. No one here is interested in debating you about anything at all.
Over and out.
You have no facts to back your BS. Niether does Shunyata. Sorry, but the Emperor has no clothes. Just marketing hogwash.
Mofungoo,
That's it. You have repeatedly violated forum guidelines. Your posts are being reported to forum administrators as harassing and uncivil.
You guys are harassing me. When that happens, I harass back. You insult my intelligence, and demean my 42 years as an electrical engineer by stating that electrical conventions are mere theory and marketing hype is all that is important. Mention of discoveries about black holes is stated as proof that we don't know all there is to know about wire. Wires are necessary in order to transmit electrical energy and are well researched. There have not been any huge breakthroughs in wire technology lately.
So you buy a cable based on hype then when you use it you find that it makes no difference. So "break-in" of the cable is the answer. Weeks and weeks of "break-in". You guys are in denial. I suspect you would make good hypnosis subjects. Have a nice day.
To be honest, this is just not worth the time and effort. However, I will just state that Mr. mofungoo has twisted my comments to suit his fashion which is unfortunate.
I never did say anything about wire; I did say science and electrical engineering, not wire. Again, I do put forth to believe all there is to know about the science of any field is rather shortsighted to say the least. We know what we know today only to the extent what we can understand through our meager brains and attempts to understand the world as we know it today. There is much still to understand about everyting we have yet to uncover. Such is the advancement in any field. To think otherwise is is, I believe, foolish.
Mr. Mofungoo, one needs to learn to look beyond the textbook and learn to understand the feeling of emotional response to get a grip on what we are discussing. A common trait among engineers and scientists in general is they can not do so. Everything MUST be explained by the equations they learned during their education in the classroom and textbooks. Everything else is just not explainable based on what we know today, and therefore is not possible. Hence, as a general rule, the inability to take anything on faith alone.
Musical reprduction is about emotional response not E/I X R equations. There are notes, sounds and songs. Yes, they sound nice and you can hear them. Then there is the joy of hearing the live musician play with the emotion they impart to those notes and tunes which is what creates musical expression. Without that, its just notes. The ability to communicate that emotion expression to a point where the mind and soul connect with that expression is what we are talking about, here. One would suppose by the discussion here that all wire technologies soud the same and all equipment sounds the same because they contain the same distortion specifications as another component, etc.
So, again, if you wish to be constructive, outstanding. To attack those of us who understand what these products communicate, personally, by telling us we are all fools because we do enjoy that communication is a direct personal attack and has no place. There is a right and wrong way to go about a discussion. Respect for the other persons viewpoints is essential. Unfortunately, that perspective was not taken here at the outset with an attack and tone that was anything but constructive and that is unfortunate. The fact now is, the remainder of us in this forum now see Mr. mofungoo with little respect since none was shown for us. That makes further discussions extremely difficult.
Perhaps, one needs to take a step back and decide for themselves if this is really worth the time and emotional effort for the sake of personal attack or for true intellectual discussion about an emotional response? Personally, the answer is no. It is not constructive. Constructive behavior patterns do not create the sort of situation we have here. I submit a different approach and discussion take place going forward. Otherwise, I would expect this discussion has taken its logical course and has now come to full fruition. Unfortunately, I believe I already have the answer to that.
Odd
Odd
Absolutely, 100%, as well!
Rob
coopersark