Revel Salon 2 / Ayre Question
-- Sat, 03/28/2009 - 01:15
For the last two days I've been auditioning the Revel Salon 2's with the top of the line Ayre gear: KX-R, MX-R monoblocks, C-5xe player.
Although this is a very impressive setup, sounding stunning at times, it was failing to engage me into the music. It was as if the system was trying too hard, for lack of a better description.
The midrange liquidity that I have heard from much less expensive systems (like ARC) was just not there. It sounded a bit forward and forced, too eager..?
These auditions have left me wondering if perhaps Mark Levinson gear would be a better match for the Salons.
Has anyone else ran into this with the Salons/Studios?
What gear are Salon 2/Sudio 2 owners partnering their speakers with? Am I better off using a hybrid preamp to aliviate some of the issues I'm mentioning above?
I'm extremely curious on the feedback from Revel owners
Thanks!!!
Wow, I was one day away from ordering the Ayres to go with my Salon 2s. I would really like to see what others are saying about this topic. Thanks for the heads up.
I drove the Salon2 primarily with a Mark Levinson No.432, a 200Wpc three-channel amplifier that sells for $8000. I thought this was a good match musically, although the Salon2 could use more power if you listen at high levels in a large room. The Salon2 is current-hungry, suggesting that you drive it with an amplifier that can substantially increase its power into low-impedance loads.
I didn't hear any of the problems you describe, particularly in the midrange. In fact, the Salon2's midrange is absolutely glorious, with extremely low coloration, a tremendous sense of presence without being forward, and an almost spooky reproduction of timbre. The Salon2 is quite revealing of the characteristics of upstream components.
I have not hear the Ayre electronics and can't comment on them.
The rest of my system at the time was a Mark Levinson No.326s preamp and the Esoteric D-03/P-03/Rb-01 digital front end.
Thanks Robert.
I currently have a ML 335 amp, and it sounds quite good, but I was looking to up-grade. I thought the Ayres might be a good match, but perhaps not.
I could up-grade to a more powerful ML amp, although there are some who think the quality of ML amps have deteriorated recently. Any thoughts on this? How about the ML no53? Do you still have the Salons?
BTW, I was also thinking about up-grading to the Esoteric D-03/P-03. How do you like it?
Greg
Thanks Robert. I curently have an old ML 335 amp, which I was looking to up-grade. I could stay with ML equipment, but I have heard that their reliability and service have decreased recently. Any thoughts on ML in general? Perhaps the ML no 53 would be a good choice, although I haven't seen any detailed reviews of their performance.
Interestingly, I was also thinking about buying the Esoteric D-03/P-03. Best,
Greg
I haven't used my Revel Salon 2s with any of the Ayre gear.
If the results are as good as you say, I may have to invest.
Tom - Author and Salon Software guru
The Mark Levinson brand had a setback when it moved the factory and consolidated its operations. Quality and reliability were problems. Since then, however, I've had experience with two products and can report that the build quality, reliability, and sound are fully up to the levels established by the brand before the consolidation.
The No.326s and No.432 were both outstanding products. The new ML amplifier (the linear amplifier, not the new switching unit) was designed by the same guy who created the No.432, but with the goal of improving on the sound and making it two channels rather than three. I'm interested in hearing that amplifier myself.
You can read my review of the Esoteric here: http://www.avguide.com/review/esoteric-p-03-and-d-03-universal-disc-transport-and-dac
I've had the ML 53 amps and ML 326s to run my Salons 2s for several months. I cannot believe how much better they sound than the 300 series amps. Robert, you really need to listen to the 53s. They are truly amazing.
I agree that old ML products have beetre build quality, reliability and even sound quality.
I compared old and new version of CD NO390S. There is a noticable diffrence.
I am afraid new Levinson stuff I have heard sucks...
Sorry I meant that I agree that new production Harman ML products are better.
But the new models are not very good sounding.
I have had the Salon2's for over a year now and I use a pair of ML 436 monoblocks to drive them. Yes, the Salon2's are very power hungry, but if you feed them well, they play very nice! I not sure if Robert is talking about the 433, which is the 3 channel amplifier, or the 432, which is the two channel version. It seems in the Harmon empire, that all their equipment works well together, as the engineering participation is sure to work with the other division's products. I use my system for both 2 channel and home theater, so I use the ML 433 to drive the Voice2, and a pair of Gem2's.
As far as the service and support of ML is in question, I had one of my 436's shipped to me and it was dead out of the box. I contacted ML for a return authorization, and gave them the serial number of the dead amp, and he asked if I had another 436 for stereo use. I said yes, and gave him the serial number for that one. He said some minor mods were made, and he made arrangements for both amps to be picked up and replaced with two new ones. They do stand behind their product as within 2 weeks I have them at my doorstep.
One thing in listening to the Salon2's, they do need long hours for a good break-in, as their character certainly changes for the better with time.
I've heard good things about the ML53. The amplifier certainly looked interesting when I saw it at CES.
I am using an Audio Research Ref 210 with my Salon 2. It sounds great. I agree that the Ayre front end was somewhat lackluster. I was wondereing what Mr. Harley thinks of use Spectral components with the Salon 2.
I didn't have the Spectral system and the Salon2 at the same time (they missed each other by about a month). But judging from my experience with the Spectral driving the Magico V3, I suspect that the Spectral would be a good match for the Salon2. The DMA-360 has the ability to deliver lots of current, which is just what the Salon2 needs. Moreover, the sonic qualities of the Spectral and Salon2 are highly aligned; quick, transparent, uncolored, neutral, and extremely clean (meaning freedom from grain).
What about Parasound JC1's driving the SAlon 2's?
I have not heard the JC-1, but it appears to have enough power and current delivery to adequately drive the Salon2. Whether it's a good musical match is another question that can only be answered by putting them together and listening.
Thanks,
Thats what I plan to do.
BTW ,
Remember the Infinity Composition Prelude PFR's(not MTS) that came out in the mid to late 90's? I bought them after your recommendation and a listen, sold them off 3 years ago. Fooled around with Martin Logan Summmits...but needed more dynamics for home theater and now building a dual purpose stereo/ home theater system based on the new Revel 2 speakers.
I enjoy your opinions and writing, keep up the great work!
Werner
I bought the Infinity Prelude review samples and used them for many years.
The Revel Salon2 is, as you know, in another league. It's a great speaker and a tremendous bargain. The JC-1 is also a huge amount of performance for the price. It should make a good combination.
Thanks for your comments about my writing.
Do not know about the Salon, but Ayre gear always left me cold and uninvolved.
I use the Revel Studio 2's with a Yamaha MX-D1 power amp (fed by a Yamaha YPC-1 passive preamp). It may sound like a completely wrong match but it actually works very well. The MX-D1 is a switching amp giving 500W per channel and easily drives the Revels. It was very highly regarded in Germany and Stereophile (class B), but equally disliked in the UK. It sold for about usd5k, but can be bought for about usd1k now. I have had ML, Proceed gear but gave up when they stopped supporting Proceed (although I have just bought a No28 preamp to use as second phono stage). I sold a Linn Klimax combo when i got the Yamaha as the latter worked much better with the Revels. I guess good matching and actually trying it for yourself is the key to success. My two bits!
I drive Salon2 with ML 436, Feeling they dont have enough power to push Revels. Despite 350wpc/8ohm
Heard Salon2 with No532 400wpc, still the same. very smooth, but I felt it underpowered.
I heard Salon2 work best with 500Wpc/8ohm power amp, like Moon W7M, ML53, Musical Fidelity KW.
Thinking about new power amp to replace weak 436 , or should I just keep 436 and find easier to drive speakers.
I had the odd sensation when I had the Revel Salon2s that they soaked up amplifier power. You might consider something like the Bryston 28B monoblock that HP recently wrote about (Issue 190). It produces 1000Wpc at $16k for the pair. HP was mightily impressed by the sound quality. I've heard from others whose ears I also trust that the 28B is a spectacular-sounding amplifier.
I have no doubt that the 28B would be enough power for the Salon2.
Hi,
I am interested in 28B too, I just dont like its pre amp much. and I am not sure that my ML326s will work
well with 28B very low input impedance too. If they just make a better pre amp to match. I 've got Moon P8+W7M
right now. It provide the punch and dynamic that I was dream to have. But the overall sound is thinner than what I
use to hear from ML326s+436. I still have 326s as spare, may be in the far future, I might find No53 to pair with it.
Or should I just find easier to drive speakers, like MAXX3 may be.
I don't see any reason why the No.326s won't drive the Bryston 28B.
I wouid try a better CD player such as the Levinson 390S
I can not beleive your pre-power are not good enough.
Have been driving a pair of Reference 3A Grand Veena's with the Parasound JC2 and JC1's with great pleasure. Just got the Revel Salon2's in this week and will be replacing the GV's with them next weekend. I'm very excited to see how they combine with the Parasound after a week of burning in. Will issue a follow up
nick996r...any follow up?
I've been using the Salon 2 and JC1 combo for months now in a dual purpose home theater/music system. Seems to work well for me. Home theater could not be better...Awesome Dynamics.. Music? Took a while for the Martin Logan Summits I was using to loose there grip on me. May go back to Martin Logan and try the new CLX with some Mcintosh MC2301 Tube Monos for music when I can get the cash together. But for now the Salon 2 and JC1's will serve dual purpose. Dreaming about MBL.
Anyone with experience or thoughts on the Salon2 with McIntosh MC501's ?
As a follow up, I've had the Salon 2's with the Parasound JC1's and JC2 burning in for over a week and they are sounding more and more liquid every day. Since I have not owned electrostatics, but have heard them at shows, etc., for many years, I still did not know if I would get the reviewers comments of how much the Salons sound like electrostatics. Well, in my room they just seem to disappear and the low end is better than with my 3A and a pair of JL Fathom 113's, incredible. Now have to improve my analog and digital front end. Have also thought about the new Mc2301 and MA2300 tube monoblocks, but that will have to wait, for now sweet sweet music.
The Salon2 does sound very electrostatic-like in many ways, particularly the lack of "cone" colorations as well as a seamlessness to the sound that is the result of the superb driver integration.
As for upgrading your front ends, the Salon2 is so resolving that improvements upstream won't go to waste. Keep in mind that the Salon2 thrives on power.
In my view, the Salon2 is one of the great bargains in high-end audio.
Just wanted to ask Mr. Harley a question. I currently own a pair of modwright kwa 150, running in mono, driving my b&w 803's and I was going to upgrade to the Revel Salon 2 . First if you are familiar with the kwa, will they be enough to drive the Revels, 2nd if not, is there an amp (2 in mono) that would work well with the Revels in the $6000-8000 price range. Thanks for your help.
Post new comment