Recommended DAC's under $1K
GPA -- Sun, 11/09/2008 - 20:20
Do you have any recommendations for a DAC in the 500 to $1K price range? I am interested in purchasing either a Wadia iTransport or the Apple iTunes and would like to run either system into a good DAC which I then would connect to my preamplifier. I download my music via Apple Lossless. Thank you in advance for your help.
Just bought the Benchmark DAC1 ($995 retail or less on Audiogon) for use with the Logitech Squeezbox Duet and that combination sounds great to me. I bought the DAC1 because it has many favorable reviews, is a fantastic headphone amp, and is smaller than the PS Audio DAC 3 so it can be hidden along with the very small Duet receiver. The Duet works using radio instead of line of sight commands and has the best remote you'll ever use. The Wadia can't be hidden so easily and takes up alot of shelf space with the Ipod sticking out the top but the DAC1 would do a great job. The Duets remote is very cool but won't transfer album art from Itunes at this time.
Listen to music everyday.
I hear that Wadia are working on a DAC to match the 170i Transport, though I don't know how much it would be. I think it's supposed to be announced early next year, and would imaging the price would be in the $500 to $1000 range.
I am using a Cambridge Audio DacMagic to convert streams from the internet and my computer via a Squeezbox Duet and to play CD and DVD-Audio from a universal player. I think it sounds great and although I haven't personally tested any others, I find it difficult to believe you can do better at anywhere near the $399 that I paid for it.
Has anyone tried the LavryDA10?
http://www.lavryengineering.com
I greatly prefer the Lavry DA10 over the Benchmark DAC-1. To me, the Benchmark is too bright.
Because Lavry is sold almost entirely to the Pro market, I don't think there are any audiophile dealers at which you can audition it before buying. The online retailer Bayview Pro Audio has a 30-day return privilege.
It seems from Robert E. Greene's review TAS #183 (Aug 2008) that the Benchmark DAC1 is effectively jitter-free as it basically ignores the timing of the input signal and uses its own clock for timing the output signal. Does anyone know if the Lavry DA10 uses a similar algorithm? I couldn't figure out from the literature available on their website.
Actually, that's not true. I am a Lavry dealer focused on the audiophile products. I would definitely contact Lavry to see if there is a dealer in your area.
Benchmark simply uses ASRC (asynchronous sample rate conversion) to remove jitter.
Lavry uses an alternative that they keep proprietary.
Dan Lavry says the DA-10 does not use ASRC in the Crystal and Narrow modes:
http://www.lavryengineering.com/lavry_forum/viewtopic.php?p=953
However, the DA-10 apparently does use the SRC chip as part of its proprietary algorithm, because they revised the user guide to remove the assertion that it does not perform sample rate conversion. This implies they are using the SRC chip for "synchronous" sample rate conversion of some kind:
<http://www.lavryengineering.com/lavry_forum/viewtopic.php?t=337&postorder=asc&start=90>
The new HiFi+ (Issue 62) favorably covers the Cambridge Audio azur DacMagic-B and the PS Audio Digital Link. I think in your price range, the PS Audio is worth looking at.
I have a MacBook Pro hooked to my Naim separates (pre and amp) via a new Cambridge Audio DacMagic. I also have a CD5 ($2200 when new) and, amazingly, the quality from the DacMagic ($400) is almost identical to that of the CD5 and even a bit less bloomy (cleaner) in the lower midrange. I now have to ask, what is the damned point of an expensive CD player these days?
As for other sub $1k DAC models, Ray Samuels audio makes a versatile and interesting portable USB DAC/headphone amp called the Predator. www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/predator
Update: I now run two systems using the DAC Magic through Sonos ZP 90's, a Naim / Rega speaker combo and a little Almarro amp/ Rega speaker combo. Both sound better than with my Naim and Denon CD players. I also have two systems running directly off Sonos ZP units and they sound very good too. The first is a McCormack Pre and Amp/ Magnepan system and the other is a ZP120 directly running Martin Logan in ceiling speakers in the bathroom. I am very happy with all combos.
RME ADI-2 is a good one, priced at 600€ in Europe. It has a (very clean-Wadia-like-no-overshoot) pulse response, making it useful for measurement purposes too, if combined with the RME Hammerfall digital interface system. Just balanced outputs, with interesting performance when combined with ISO-MAX 1:1 transformers from Jensen Transformers. You can use balanced to single ended conversion with a very acceptable-very small footprint change in the original sonics, guaranteeing a perfect isolation from pulse noise.
Anonymous, you have aroused my curiosity about the Lavry and I have e-mailed them. I have a Musical Fidelity A308 cd player which I have owned for several years and it's a good unit, but I much prefer my Nottingham 294 'table and arm. I want to get a reasonably priced dac for use with the 308. Any reason they wouldn't work well together? What's the difference between the DA 10 and the DA 11? Thanks, JD II
Jack D II
Hi Jack,
I've owned a DA11 for a bit over a month now and as an exclusively headphone (HD650) listener, have been very happy with the DA11. Unlike most components of this type, the DA11 has a discrete headphone circuit and a digitally-controlled analog volume control.
According to posts by Dan Lavry, the DA11 is an improved DAC over the DA10. In addition, it has the PiC crossfeed circuit, USB 24/96 input and IR remote control support. Check it out: http://www.lavryengineering.com/productspage_pro_da11.html
HTH,
USAudio
i have a ps audio DIgital Link iii ($695 online) up to my Apple TV / quad tube amp / quad dsl 2805 speakers. it sounds awesome. i think it sounds better than the NAD CD player than i was using.
Hi Kim. I have a question about Apple TV. I understand you commonly connect the Apple TV via HDMI to your tv's HDMI IN in order to get sound & images to your TV. Can you connect the HDMI to an A/V Receiver's HDMI IN and let the images and sound reach the TV by way of the Receiver's HDMI OUT that goes into the TV ?? A support tech at Apple was not certain about this. I'm looking to buy one, but only if I can go directly into my receiver first.
Thanks
HDMI is a tricky connection.
I wanted to use an Altona 1 in / 2 out SPlitter so I could get an image on both a small monitor and my projector. I never could get it to work...
Going through an AV receiver may work since you're not trying to split the signal, but the Apple TV takes HDMI handshaking VERY seriously and if it doesn't synch properly you will get nothing...
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Thanks Steve. I suppose I better guard that receipt with my life.
Two I would recommend are the Musical Fidelity V-DAC and the PS Audio Digital LInk III.
If, however, your budget can be stretched a bit beyond the $1000 limit, a superb solution is the Peachtree Audio Nova hybrid integrated amp/switching USB DAC ($1199). The Peachtree is based around the ESS Sabre DAC, which uses a proprietary on-chip jitter reduction circuit. Frankly, i think the Nova would be well worth its asking price for its DAC section alone. Watch for a review of the Nova in the next Playback.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Chris, when you preface your reply with "Two" are you talking to me - Jack D II? Anyway I'm looking for a dac to follow my MF 308 so I'll look at Peachtree. Thanks.
Jack D II
Hi Chris,
I like the idea of the Peachtree Audio Nova hybrid integrated amp/switching USB DAC. Would this be an acceptable integrated amp to drive a pair of Esoteric MG-20 speakers though? I'd like to listen to my music either with a Logitech Squeezebox Duet or an Apple TV and the idea of a good DAC in the Peachtree integrated amp is quite interesting. I'm not sure they would be a good match for my speakers however. I appreciate any information that you may have. Thanks.
Jerry
Jerry
Although a bit over you upper target I would certainly take a look at the Peachtree Audio Nova. It's a DAC, it an amp, it's terrfic. I recently spent some time listening to it and I have to say I am very very impressed. It uses the ESS processor which drops jitter to an inconsequential level, I don't know if that's what makes it sound so good, but it can't hurt.
If you are not afraid to spend LESS consider the extremely cheap Beresford DAC at $250 shipped. I have not compared this against any other DAC than the one embedded in my highly modified Sony SCD-222ES but I can state that playing Apple Lossless rips of my CDs off a NAS via a Roku Soundbridge going into the Beresford via Beresford's coax sounds far superior to the CDs played in the Sony. I also tried Beresford's Toslink cable but it was clearly a step down.
I would very much like to compare this to the Benchmark and the PS Audio DACs but for a purchase price that was a no-brainer this was a huge success.
http://www.beresford-dac.com/beresford-tc-7520
I'm a huge fan of the PS Audio Digital Link III, though I can't claim to have A/B'd it with the alternatives. It's not exaggerating to say the DL3 changed my (audio) life. The difference between a mass-market CD player's analog outputs and the same player's S/PDIF outputs via the DL3 is astounding. You don't need to be an audiophile to hear it. (My decidedly NON-audiophile teenagers easily heard the difference.). My entire CD collection is in two copies of iTunes (lossless) which I can drive from S/PDIF from a desktop PC (Intel X38 MB) and also USB from an Intel notebook. I can control both via my iPhone's Remote app, btw. (Sometimes I don't move for hours...) The only (minor) limitation of the USB input to the DL3 is that it won't support formats of higher resolution than Red Book. However, I can play high-res audio through S/PDIF. I cannot hear any difference between the three inputs, btw.
One thing immediately apparent in the contrast with a mass-market CD's analog output is the vinyl-heads are certainly correct that CD sound is flawed, if mass-market CD players is what they're talking about. But I believe high-end DACs like the DL3 take most (all?) the wind out of the sails of the vinyl Luddites, especially with high-res source material.
Another wonderful surprise about the DL3 is that it makes compressed streaming audio sound surprisingly good. I actually use Rhapsody for serious listening.
When you select a DAC, I would recommend one with an Asynchronous Sample Rate Converter. One of the few things the audio community agrees about is that jitter is perhaps the worst thing that can happen to digital audio, and a true ASRC is a "shock absorber" for jitter is a quality downstream clock is used. Have a healthy skepticism about alternative solutions. The cheapest DAC I'm aware of with an ASRC is the Musical Fidelity V-DAC at $299. I haven't heard it, but it got good reviews here and is worth a listen.
The Apogee Mini-dac sounds great and has tons of functionality. It is a nice headphone amp and a pre-amp/volume control.
Apogee dacs use what they call "dual clocking." In this type of circuit, one "loose" clock locks to the incoming digital signal, bits are stored into a buffer, and then a very low jitter clock is used to clock data out of this buffer to the DA converters. This means that the Mini-DAC is impervious to clock jitter coming from the digital input, and jitter at the DA converter is quite low.
Street price is around $750. I've had mine for about a year and like it a lot.
I agree with Roger Knopf. I've had a Beresford TC-7510 (same DAC as the 7520 AFAIK, without USB input) for about a year now. It sits between a SqueezeBox 3 and a Krell KAV 300i. I've compared it, at identical output levels, to a Channel Islands VDA-1 (with VAC-1 power supply) and to a Marantz DV-6400 universal player. In my system, the Beresford gives the best performance.
My mac is hooked up via USB to a Ray Samuels Predator DAC and the sound is quite nice at the workstation and when i travel, i unhook it and use the Predator as a headphone amp with my iphone.
Beresford is rebranding an off the shelf Taiwanese DAC.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/link-beresford-tc-7510-bashing-headfi-b...
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/link-beresford-tc-7510-bashing-headfi-b...
Go for the original and save a bundle.
internals, with markings obscured:
http://paulberry.livejournal.com/75357.html
and the unit itself, from the Taiwanese supplier:
http://www.technolink.com.tw/
When does TAS expect to publish a review of DACs under $1,000?
The August issue (which I recieved by mail yesterday) has reviews of three under $300 USB DACs.
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
I dont have any way to compare, but , after living with the Lavry DA 10 for a week, I'm entirely satisfied. From a Musical Fidelity A308cr player via Canare wire to the Lavry DA 10 to a Conrad Johnson CT 5 via Kimber Hero on to Marsh Sound Design A400 amp to Dunlavy SC IV speakers, the DA 10 has transformed my cd collection. I've spent 40 years slowly putting my system together buying used equipment and have acquired some ability to judge quality. The biggest change the DA 10 has made is to make audible all the musical info on the disc so the music is far richer and clearer. There is more, much more, music there. A great bargin at $1150.00 +/-.
Jack D II
This might be below your price range, but I have used the Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC for about 6 months now with very good results. I believe they currently sell for in the $400 - $500 range.
It apparently has the same dac in the unit that is used in the CA 740C player.
GPA, not sure from your post if you are using your computer in your audio setup, or just use the computer to acquire music and then play it via some other source. If you are connecting computer to DAC and then to preamp, the DACMAGIC works well in this setup. I have a second audio system that I use the dacmagic with. So Windows Vista, soundblaster x-fi Titanium soundcard, which has a digitial (toslink) out which feeds the dacmagic, which connects to a NAD integrated amp. The digital inputs on the dacmagic accept up to 24-96 format. I am also burning music to my hard drive in 24-96 (both LP's recorded in 24-96 and CD ripped to WAV and converted to 24-96), which sounds really good played back via the dacmagic. Note that the dacmagic also has a USB connection, but I believe USB only outputs 48khz so hi-rez music is not an option there. BTW, I did use the USB connection for a very long time, and it did sound very good. I only went the digital inputs on the dacmagic recently after installing the soundblaster card that has digital out. The digital inputs on the dacmagic do allow for a slightly more solid sound than is possible via the USB connection.
Note that I use the dacmagic in my second system. My primary system has the CA 840C being used as a DAC with a couple of other digital sources feeding it. So when considering the dacmagic for your system, bear in mind that it has the DAC that is used in the 740C. If your associated equipment is very high end then the dacmagic may not be up to par with the rest of the system.
Anyway, for what its worth there is another option to consider
Paul
Having had the opportunity to directly compare the Musical Fidelity V-Dac vs The Cambridge DAC Magic I can confidently say that whilst the V-Dac got on with playing music a little better than the the standard output from my Sony CDP-XA5es, the Cambridge Audio Dacmagic blew me away with wider apparent frequency range (especially the very upper and lower registers) and excellent 3d imaging on filter 1 (my favourite) : filter 2 on the DAC Magic provides the midrange lucidity and smoothness of the V-Dac with considerable better micro dynamics than the V-Dac and slightly better soundstage width.
Whilst the V_dac is good, and quite musical, the Cambridge Audio Dac Magic provides your choice of either a super wide and detailed studio monitor experience OR a liquid, tight musical performance with slightly better imaging. The Cambridge Audio Dac Magic is astoundingly good for the money. I really liked the dual differential XLR outputs, they really had amazing dynamics, and a great sense of height in the soundstage, not just width and depth.
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