Recommendations on a First System

-- Wed, 01/28/2009 - 21:48

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I'd like to start by saying that I've been reading the Absolute Sound off and on for a couple years now and I really couldn’t ask for more from this publication. It has truly gotten me interested in this great (and expensive) hobby. Recently, my uncle was gracious enough to give me some of his older equipment that was just sitting around. Now I am in possession of a Bryston .5B pre-amp and a 3B Amplifier. These are the older units and are not the ST or SST versions.
I am trying to figure out if it is worth building a system around these components or if I should save up some more money and build one from scratch. I am thinking that I would like to spend roughly 3 to 5 grand the remaining components. I need a CD player, speakers, and all the necessary cables. As far as my music tastes, I listen to a wide variety including classic rock, hip hop, electronic, alternative, and some rock. Reasonable bass response is a pretty high priority so I was leaning towards a floorstanding model. I went to a local store briefly where the salesman showed me a Monitor Audio Silver RS 8. I thought it was a reasonable speaker, but couldn’t hear the soundstage that I am looking for. He also said that the PSB line would not be a good match for my components/room. Does anyone know why he would have said that?
Speaking of the room, it is roughly 12' x 20' but it is not really enclosed as it runs through the rest of the house. I would like to know if you all think I should try to build a system around these Bryston components or if I should think about waiting to purchase something better. Recommendations on speakers, a cd player, and the appropriate cables would also be appreciated. Thanks.

RichMaltz13 (not verified) -- Wed, 01/28/2009 - 21:50

I'd like to start by saying that I've been reading the Absolute Sound off and on for a couple years now and I really couldn’t ask for more from this publication. It has truly gotten me interested in this great (and expensive) hobby. Recently, my uncle was gracious enough to give me some of his older equipment that was just sitting around. Now I am in possession of a Bryston .5B pre-amp and a 3B Amplifier. These are the older units and are not the ST or SST versions.
I am trying to figure out if it is worth building a system around these components or if I should save up some more money and build one from scratch. I am thinking that I would like to spend roughly 3 to 5 grand the remaining components. I need a CD player, speakers, and all the necessary cables. As far as my music tastes, I listen to a wide variety including classic rock, hip hop, electronic, alternative, and some rock. Reasonable bass response is a pretty high priority so I was leaning towards a floorstanding model. I went to a local store briefly where the salesman showed me a Monitor Audio Silver RS 8. I thought it was a reasonable speaker, but couldn’t hear the soundstage that I am looking for. He also said that the PSB line would not be a good match for my components/room. Does anyone know why he would have said that?

Speaking of the room, it is roughly 12' x 20' but it is not really enclosed as it runs through the rest of the house. I would like to know if you all think I should try to build a system around these Bryston components or if I should think about waiting to purchase something better. Recommendations on speakers, a cd player, and the appropriate cables would also be appreciated. Thanks.

neil.gader -- Wed, 02/04/2009 - 16:57

I have no idea why the dealer wouldn't recommend PSB unless of course he wasn't selling them. The floorstanding $3K Synchrony 2 would be an excellent choice in your application as would the Dali Mentor 2 at around $2500. and don't forget the tried and true Vandersteen 2CE, a speaker that has captured the hearts and minds of many audiophiles since it's first release. BTW, I think your priority at this point should be the speakers. The Bryston gear remains really good, reliable power. I'd hold on to them for now.

Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound

Chris Martens -- Wed, 02/04/2009 - 19:42

 Rich,
 
Keep the Brystons? I certainly would, and would thank your Uncle profusely for his generosity. As I see it those are awfully good "starter" components, so that I would take an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach."
 
Brystons not a good match for PSBs? I would have to disagree with your dealer on that point. I think the typically clean, taut sound of the Brystons would be a fine match for PSB Synchrony or PSB Imagine speakers. BTW, if you can stretch your budget to accommodate them, I'd recommend the PSB Synchrony One ($4500/pair), which I feel offers a big jump up in performance vis-a-vis the Synchrony Two.
 
Speaker suggestions: Neil's suggestions are good ones, but let me put several others forward for your consideration.
 
First, let me suggest either the Definitive Technology Mythos ST ($3998/pair) and the slightly smaller Mythos STS ($2998/pair). Here's what drives my suggestion: both Mythos models are easy to drive, offer built-in powered subwoofers that integrate beautifully with the midrange/tweeter modules of the speakers, and both deliver a remarkably "fast," open and transparent sound that yields very fine imagining and 3D soundstaging. If you are a finicky bass connoisseur (and I'd have to confess that I am), let me say that the Mythos models succeed in areas where many "pedigreed" passive speakers simply fall short (or, um, fall apart, as the case may be).
 
Second, I'd suggest that you check out Usher's new Mini-Dancer--if you can wait for this model to come to market, The Mini-Dancer (just shown at CES 2009) is essentially what happens if you take the core components of Usher's award-winning Be-718 stand mount monitors and use them to create floorstanders with deeper bass response. Suggestion: Read Robert Harley's TAS review of the Be-718 and then imagine that same speaker with more low-end reach and you've got the general idea. Price: About $3k/pair.

CD player suggestions: In ascending order of price, the Oppo DV-983H universal player (ignore the  roughly $400 price and just listen to it), the Rega Apollo, the Cambridge Audio 840C, and the Bryston BCD-1.  
 
Chris Martens,
Editor, Playback
 

Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision 

RichMaltz13 (not verified) -- Tue, 02/10/2009 - 11:55

Thank you both for the recommendations. Would any of these speakers have a problem being placed near a wall? Due to room limitations they will likely be 2 to 3 feet away from the wall at most. Also, the room I am planning on placing these speakers in opens up on one side. This means that the left channel will be in the corner and the right channel will not. Do you think this will cause any major issues with the system? Is there any way to take care of this relatively cheaply? I am not sure how long I will be living in this house (another year and a half max) and I dont want to spend a ton of money to upgrade a room that I won't be using in the near future. The other option would be placing them in my home theater set up but this would involve integrating the preamp. As there is no HT bypass on this model, I dont think that I will be able to do this without a great expense. Please let me know what you all think. Thanks again and I look forward to auditioning these speakers.

Robert Harley -- Tue, 02/10/2009 - 15:40

I once had a listening room that was assymetrical, with one speaker in the corner and the other speaker having no sidewall (open to the rest of the house). You'll get more "room gain" (a room-induced bass boost) from the speaker in the corner. I countered this effect by careful speaker placement and by putting an ASC Tube Trap in the corner behind the speaker. The Tube Trap absorbed bass and made the two speakers' outputs closer in tonal balance. Finding just the right spot for the corner speaker will reduce peaks and dips in the frequency-response and ameliorate the effects of the assymetrical room.
 
See "Robert Harley's System Set-Up Secrets" at www.avguide.com/hifibooks for more on this subject. This is a free booklet you can download as a PDF.

RichMaltz13 (not verified) -- Fri, 02/20/2009 - 14:09

I got a chance to audition some of the speakers you had all mentioned last weekend and was pretty impressed with the PSB Synchrony Ones. Unfortunately, the dealer said that the price has increased to $5000/pr so I think these may be a little bit out of my price range. I am really hoping that I can listen to the Synchrony Twos before making a decision but if they sound anything like the Ones I will likely be happy. I also got a chance to listen to the Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1s. I enjoyed those as well but didnt have that much time to listen and they weren't completely set up correctly. With all this, does anyone have any recommendations for other speakers that are in the ~$3000 price range that would be a match for my older Bryston gear? Should I try to stretch my budget and go with the Ones?

sangram (not verified) -- Sun, 02/22/2009 - 04:52

Though I'm in a different country with slightly different prices, I did listen to the Synchrony Two and was very impressed by their sound, driven, no less, by a Bryston 3B. Only the dealer was asking $5500 the pair, which is basically profit-mongering. I also listened to some Cadence hybrid speakers (made right here in India), the Dynaudio Focus 220, some nondecript Infinitys, the Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 (quirky!). In the end I decided on the Usher Mini-Dancer. Since it was not yet released, I was sent a pair of BE-718s to hold me over. I finally got my Mini Dancers two days ago, and my impressions are here: http://www.avguide.com/forums/usher-be-10-be-20
 
Though the speakers are settling down much more nicely now than when I got them, they've got some way to go before I figure how they will integrate with my equipment and room. The BE-718 fitted right in straight away, but these floorstanders are slightly more difficult to work with. If anything they are colder than and more neutral than the smaller bookshelves, which creates a few problems in a non-carpeted room like mine. Anyway I recommend at least 4 feet on each side be left empty. The BE-718 like to be toed-in, these work better when facing straight ahead or crossed over at 45 degrees (which is how I got them now) in a reflective setting. I'm assuming you got carpet, in which case a slight toe-in will work well for you. Also, be prepared for break-in, lots of it, on most any speaker in this price range. The sound in the showroom will be quite different, use it only as a guide. However, IMO these sound nothing like the BE-718, and I got both in my house right now, so pretty confident of my opinion (whihc is also matched by my country distributor and my non-audiophile friends). They're pretty good, but need a lot more care to setup and match to equipment.
 
I have the right speaker close to the corner of the room myself, but about 4 feet clear of the sidewall and behind the speaker (yay for being single!) and have no problems with the tonal balance. Of course the right is very slightly emphasised in the bass region, but it;s not noticeable unless you're listening for it. Since the toe-in is very steep, no problems with reflections off the sidewall either (which IMO is a bigger issue).

Robert Harley -- Mon, 02/23/2009 - 15:07

You made a good choice in the Usher. Between break-in and proper placement, they should sound excellent with your electronics. If you haven't downloaded it already, you can get a free copy of "Robert Harley's System Set-Up Secrets" here:
 
www.avguide.com/hifibooks
 
It contains some useful information on speaker placement.

sangram (not verified) -- Sat, 02/28/2009 - 10:57

Thanks for that Robert. I will spend some time reading all of it :)
 
I have about 100 hours on the speakers now and have been able to restore a more normal toe-in. Over this time the upper midrange has mellowed considerably, they are not like the BE-718 but have shed the fat bass and slightly harsh upper midrange, so the overall sound is much more musical. It plumbs the bottom slightly better than the smaller Ushers, and maybe has slightly less coloration in the lowest octaves, but the extra reach is not that significant. Overall however, they are more detailed and airy, plus they are lookers.
 
I have decided to pass on the BE-718 back to the source, and will stay with the mini-dancers, even though they're not really very mini :) and have a few build quality issues here and there (but that's probably because they're evaluation pairs and not retail).

Robert Harley -- Sat, 02/28/2009 - 13:30

I'm glad it worked out. The mechanical parts of drivers are stiff when new, and loosen up with use.

sangram (not verified) -- Sun, 03/15/2009 - 03:00

Quick further observations: The Mini-Dancers forego some of the luxuries (?) on the smaller BE-718. I note the switch back to the non-Dancer binding posts (these ones don't grip spades well at all and generally inspire no confidence), and the wiring used is generic Taiwanese OFC speaker wire, not the JPS wiring used on the smaller speakers. Caveat Emptor.

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