Putting warmth and Richness in System
default -- Sat, 06/13/2009 - 16:14
I currently have a Belles 350a Reference amp, Belles 28A pre, Copland 822 cd player, and ATC scm35 speakers.Interconnects are Analysis Plus, Shunyata, speaker cable is Chord Odyssey 4. I would like to get a more musical sound in the system but don't know which piece or pieces should be changed . The pre or the speakers? Maybe an integrated amp with the ATCs? Help wanted.
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1999 - 2011 NextScreen. All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
Usher speakers.
To respond to the original post, let me ask some leading questions that will help us get a better handle on what you are seeking in terms of "a more musical sound."
1. In you diagnosis, what does your current system not do that you wish it could do?
2. Same question in reverse: what does your current system do that you wish it did not do?
3. Can you say more about your ATC scm35 speakers? What draws you to them? What do you see as their strengths and weaknesses?
It might also be good to get TAS Associate Editor Neil Gader's take on your question, since he has a wealth of experience with ATC speakers.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
The ATC speakers are very neutral, maybe even slightly lean. I like the top to bottom response of the speaker but wish there was more midrange richness and warmth, while maintaing the clarity. The strength of the ATCs are also their weakness when listening. The Belles electronics are quite good but also very neutral. The amp is powerful and refined. The pre may be slightly lean. If there was a way to achieve a warmer sound with the current equipment that would be fine. I am also open for change that will move the system to another level with an expenditure of up to $5000.
Thanks for the response. The ATCs are a very neutral speaker. This is both a strength and a weakness when listening. You get out what you put in. Top to bottom response is very good and clarity is outstanding. I would like to have add some richness and warmth in the midrange ( but maintain the clarity) which would enhance my listening experience. The Belles electronics are also very good, the amp being powerful and refined. I think the pre is neutral to slightly lean. The speakers fit the room (22 x 12) well. The music I listen to is mostly jazz and classical.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever had the opportunity to try the Belles LA-01 preamplifier? I heard that preamp give impressive results when paired with (if memory serves) the Belles MB-200 monoblock amps in a demo system using Usher Be-718 speakers. I was very impressed with the midrange richness, warmth, and low-level detail.
If that (admittedly too brief) listening experience was any indicator, I suspect the LA-01 might bright those same qualities to your system, too.
The Belles preamp/power amp pair was reviewed in HiFi+ issue 60 (I believe), which you can order through this site.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Have not heard that preamp. I'll look into it. Is there another preamp you might suggest? I also like the thought of the Usher speaker but I'll concentrate one one thing at a time.
Thanks for the comments. Would appreciate any comments on the ATC speakers.
I reviewed the SMC35 a few years ago in TAS. You can find the review at this link; <www.avguide.com/review/atc-scm-35-loudspeaker> Fact is, though it's a fine speaker, the SCM35 is not especially warm to begin with with a top end that can sound a little lean. This is in direct comparison to my own ATC SCM20-2SL passive monitors. They do a lot of things wonderfully well. They are fast and revealing and have wonderful midrange transparency thanks to the three-inch soft dome that ATC is so famous for. The last thing this system needs however is a lean pre. My suggestion would be to audition a couple tube preamps. Many of us consider the combination solid state amp and tubed preamp to be sonic nirvana for many systems. I think it would enrich the sound and help raise the level of the system considerably.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
Try adding a Music Hall Dac 25.2 with a Siemens tube replacing the cheap Russian tube. I added it to my system ( hybrid Vincent pre amp and amp with Magnepan 1.6 speakers) and it gave a nice rich analog sound to digital. I bought the DAC from Jeff Wells who owns Audible Arts in Campbell, Ca. He found The Ixos Exotica interconnect between the transport (Rega Apollo) and the DAC worked best - I agreed after trying a few others.
don murdza
Get yourself some Vandersteen 2CE speakers.
Confused yet? :)
I would suggest perhaps NOT changing any of the electronics or cables in your system, but instead try changing your ROOM.
Are there any first or early reflections off the side walls that could be better attenuated?
What about floor bounce?
Do you have a glass surfaces causing reflections?
Room problems will often cause harmonic variations.
Many audiophiles are far too eager to change gear when a physical change to their rooms will make more improvement than buying and selling gear ever will.
Spend a day with your room...
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Steve is, of course correct. The room plays a huge role in our system's overall sound. IN this instance it seems as if something specific is bothering you about a system that you've owned for awhile. Could it be that your own tastes have changed and what sounded distinctly musical yesterday no longer does today? Perhaps you could explain in greater detail what exactly you think is missing-what would make your system be perceived as more musical? It's tonal balance, dynamics, resolution..? In the argument over analytical versus musical the studio-rooted ATC's will always edge towards the former. They are probably the main reason your system sounds as it does, not the amps or the wires. But before you make any wholesale system changes follow Steve Stones recommendations-a hard, clinical or dry sound is often due to room interactions. a few cheap fixes might just do the trick.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
I agree with Steve Stone. I believe the room, or room treatment as the case may be, will yield results beyond what any change of equipment may offer. After much changing of gear, I found adding room treatment to a difficult room, while not especially attractive in my case, made a huge difference. It's hard to justify when your (my!) ego wants cooler, better gear, but the results are well worthwhile. After noticing the difference in several rooms at the stereo show in NYC a few years ago with acoustic panels from Real Traps, I purchased several panels from them after speaking to Ethan Winer, the proprietor, who also spoke at the show. He offered advice and the opportunity to audition the pieces and I was very satisfied. There are other suppliers out there as well.
Regardless of whether you choose to change speakers or any other equipment, you should first consider your room. I am convinced the room is just as much a factor as the equipment, as hard to swallow as that is.
I of course will say that if the acoustics are not under control, the equipment isn't either.
Norman Varney
A/V RoomService, Ltd.
Most of the above info is good advice . Music is beautiful event that requires careful design .
Yes the Statement series is much more musical than the Reference Series. The LA-01 is one of the most musical of Solid State preamps,if your budget is limited look at the VT-01 tube preamp(no Phono ). All the Statement electronics will make the system much higher resolution .
I am also one who believes in making his system work one manufactures make of cable thru the signal chain,
Room acoustics and Isolation are part of the system preformance also. Look seriously at this eventually .
Finally yes the ATC are more analytical than they are musical. But make sure to home audtion whatever your thinking on changing to. especially if you don't want to work with your room.
maybe try a warmer speaker cable. might take that slight bit of edge off. I own Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable that I love with tube amp but it is a bit hard edged with solid state. Something like Cardas neutral reference or product from analysis plus like oval 9 or Solo crystal oval. Vann damm studio standard sold by Bryston. some thing without silver in it.
James