PSB Synchrony One or Two
default -- Wed, 12/10/2008 - 18:20
For Neil and Chris...
I read your reviews in Absolute Sound and Playback on the Synchrony Two...I landed up buying those speakers after an initial audition, although was unable to compare them to anything else, and the One's are not available for easy demo in my area. Your reviews are quite on the mark.
I am using a Simaudio I-3RS amp (reviewed in Hifi+ a few months ago) and believe it or not a $100-4 year old Sony DVD player. Along with DH Labs Silver Sonics T14's, and Tara Masters interconnects. I sit about 3 yards away from each speaker, in an apartment situation (although not a small room).
The speakers have gradually broken in, with the bass becomming quite tight and punchy, and incredibly musical and enjoyable. Tweeter is crystal clear and quite realistic, its not as luxurious as a Dali ribbon, however you do get a lot more of the sounds than from a soft-dome tweeter (well from my experience). I have found the midrange to be very uncolored - no chestiness or thinness that I noticed on many other similar priced speakers.
Anyway my question is...did you have much experience comparing the One's and Two's? and is the midrange noticably more open and clear in the One's given the separate 4 inch midrange driver? I do not require the additional dynamics and deeper bass of the One's - the Two's are fine for my needs in that area.
Also, is there anything else you can recommend for a noticable upgrade? I have compared my DVD player to a few $2000 players and have only noticed subtle differences, which is surprising given that the Simaudio and PSB are quite detailed units? Or is the way to go buying a power conditioner or high end power cables
Your help would be much appreciated.
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Sorry forgot to add my name to the above posting...
You should definitely try an AC power conditioner. They can sometimes make a dramatic difference. I recommend trying it in your system before buying, if that's possible.
I'm surprised that you didn't hear much difference with the high-end CD player. Just on paper, your Sony seems to be the weak link in the system. But Sony sometimes made very good sounding machines at low prices.
The short answer is yes. I haven’t formally reviewed the One but in my short time listening to it I thought it was a substantially (over the Two) better balanced, more dynamic speaker with greatly improved detail and a richer and more open midrange. This is generally the case when the mids have their own dedicated driver. Interdriver coherance is excellent, the transitions are smooth. And like all things PSB-it’s a terrific value.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
Thanks Neil
I will see what I can do as unfortunately the One's were not available for demo at the time but I can order them. Hopefully I can get a decent trade in deal, else I will have to hold onto the Two's for a few years given financial constraints. For what I paid for them the Two's are still a fantastic value as I compared them to a lot of other speakers on the market, some of which were double the price.
Also, would you say that using a shared driver for bass and midrange can sort of make the vocals sound cloudy?
Robert, I am still quite shocked at how well the Sony DVD player performed...I also took it to a high end store and compared it to some other players in the 840C price bracket and the salesman agreed that differences were subtle - he was expecting a huge jump in performance. Perhaps with a power cabling and conditioner system more differences would show up.
Thanks
Andrew
Andrew,
Bass and midrange is often shared in even the finest loudspeakers. How about the Magico Mini II? Just a two-way. But WHAT A TWO-WAY!!! So really it's all in the implementation. Mostly, what a well designed three-way potentially offers is greater dynamic range, bottom octave extension and at it's best improved transparency and resolution all the way around. But like everything in audio, nothing is guaranteed and for the ultimate in coherance and that inimitable "vanishing factor" great two-ways are a thing of beauty.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
I took Neil's advice and investigated the port plugs more fully.
I previously had it in the top port and a pair of socks in the bottom (temporary solution that I thought worked).
Anyway I moved the plugs to the bottom and it cleaned out the humming I was getting through vocals (associated with bass guitar). I think the top port works well in cleaning up a bit of bloom from kick drums. Obviously my socks did not do that good a job!
The bass of my speakers is located very close to the equipment racks and some furniture so it seems to make sense.that gain from the bottom woofer is the problem.
I will order another pair of plugs for the top.
Thanks
Andrew
Andrew,
I've not formally reviewed the Synchrony One either, but have logged at least a bit of quality listening time with the speaker. On the basis of that experience, I'd say the One's midrange is indeed more open and lucid-sounding than the Two's.
But here's an interesting side-note: when I reviewed the Synchrony Two-based surround system I tested the system both without and without an Audyssey room EQ system in play. Without the Audyssey system in play, my findings on the Twos closely paralleled Neil's. However, with the Audyssey system in play I found the overall "tightness," clarity and--believe it or not--audiophile-grade transparency of the Two's dramatically improved.
I realize that some purists regard DSP as a veritable tool of the devil, but I found the synergy between the Synchrony Twos and the Audyssey system truly eye-opening--the sort of change where an already very good speaker steps up to whole new level of performance. With the Audyssey system in play, the perceived performance gap between the Synchrony Twos and Ones narrows considerably.
Regarding two-way speakers: I'd say that when done well they can sound remarkably clear and coherent. A great example, and one that's not too terrifyingly expensive, would be Usher's Be-718 as reviewed by Robert Harley in TAS.
Chris Martens, Editor, Playback
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Chris
I had a read a lot about the Be-718, however I live in Sydney Australia and the only place they have them on demo is in Melbourne...plus if there is any problem there are no repairers in Sydney...so all more hassle than its worth.
We have an interesting industry in Sydney - most of the hi-end stores actually are the importers of the speakers they sell, and so when you go audition speakers you are quite limited in selection and in A/B comparisons.
That said for the price I paid for the Synchrony Two's they blow out absolutely everything in the price range up to 50% more than it (in my opinion). I had tested about 50 speakers before these, but these were the only pair that had no glaring weaknesses.
I am going today to try out power conditioners - will let you know my findings.
Cheers
Andrew
And just to let you guys know, they do sell Absolute Sound at the Borders stores here, although I am yet to find Playback...There does seem to be a lot more stock of the UK magazines here however.
Cheers
Andrew
Playback is only available online!
Andrew,
The importer/dealer model sounds pretty interesting. There are, or at least used to be, a few stores in the U.S. that follow that paradigm, too.
Re: Playback. Playback is an all-digital monthly magazine that is offered free of charge to its readers (but please, no quips about "only getting what you pay for..."). To subscribe, or simply to read the magazine online, point your browser to:
http://playback.avguide.com
Playback is about music, movies, and the equipment to play them on, with significant portions of the magazine devoted to coverage of home theater equipment. When we assess home theater gear, we always think both as movie and music lovers, since we know many readers use their home theater systems to enjoy both art forms. Take a look at the magazine and let me know what you think.
Re: Power conditioners. Two wonderful units I can wholeheartedly recommend are the PS Audio Quintet and--for maximum performance--Power Plant Premier. (A number of my TAS colleagues like these units, too, judging by recent reviews and Golden Ear Award nominations). The Quintet is probably the biggest bargain I've yet seen in the power conditioner world (and I've tried quite a few), while the Power Plant Premier takes performance to an even higher level, though at a higher price. Here's a link to my Playback review of the PS Audio units:
http://www.avguide.com/comparative-review/ps-audio-power-deliveryconditi...
If you're not familiar with the Premier, the gist of things is that it does not so much filter or "condition" AC power, but rather regenerates AC power at the exact voltage and line frequency called for in the users home country. So, you not only get AC power that's "cleaned up," but that offers true dynamic voltage regulation and very low-distortion AC waveforms (there's even a display that let's you monitor inbound vs. outbound waveform distortion, which can be pretty eye opening). At any rate, the benefits of the Premier are quite audible (and visible)--and sometimes unexpected. For example, I've recently observed that the Premier seems to improve the perceived pitch/speed stability of turntables with synchronous AC motors. Interesting, no?
Chris Martens, Editor, Playback
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Thanks Chris
Although the power plant premier would cost more than I paid for the speakers and more than I paid for the amplificiation! I will investigate the cost of the quintet. An Australian dealer has mentioned amazing benefits from the Nordost Quantum Q2, all that gear adds up in price.
We have another local brand here called Thor which also regulates the current -you can see the incoming voltage and the outgoing voltage. I may be able to get a home demo.
I agree with Robert's comments that you need to test them at home, I have a strong suspicion some houses have better quality internal powe rcabling etc.
Tell me, are you a believer in expensive power cables, have you tested them?
I am amazed at the impact of moving the port plugs to the bottom woofer. The midrange detail coming through is now incredible as I can play it at lower volumes - before the bass hum was clouding the midrange and I had to turn it up loud to get the detail. And also at lower volumes it is much more open sounding...so probably consistent with your equaliser findings. Obviously for some reason with the shared bass/mid driver these speakers have a sweet spot that needs to be reached with set-up, else you will sacrifice a lot of benefits. I am now taking the view that I won't even bother demoing the One's (the shop is prepared to get them on demo), as I wonder how much better the midrange can actually get, and plus if I see how much better they are I'd get depressed about the tradeup cost!
Cheers
Andrew
Sorry Chris I was wrong, the local unit is a voltage regulator, not a voltage regenerator. I will try get a demo of the Power Plant Premier, obviously if the benefits are huge then it is worth pursuing.
Tell me, would you add high end power cables to these units?
Thanks
Andrew
Chris
I am unable to source PS Audio in Australia. Can you recommend any other power conditioners - they have Furman here if you have encountererd them?
Cheers
Andrew
For Neil and Chris...given your knowledge of the Synchrony Two's, are there any CD players you can recommend me towards that will get the max out of the speakers, I mean at the point where serious diminishing returns for higher cost kick in. My Sim I-3RS amp from what I gather is typical solid states, 100W/8ohm, 180/4ohm. I compared it directly to the I-1 which Wayne Garcia reviewed and its similar sounding but noticably more transparent on 5 speakers compared the amps on (as one would expected).
Anyway as I stated my friend and I compared the $100 Sony DVD player to the Cambridge 840C and there were no obvious immediately apparent differences, although I suspect its smoother sounding if you know what you looking for. I find the Sony DVD player to be clean but quite "digital" sounding.
Anyway I tried the Moon CD-1 on the weekend for a home demo, it is definitely more refined than the Sony DVD, the main difference being better texture and realism to vocals, and is less digital sounding, so it is definitely an option. I think Wayne Garcia reviewed it with the Moon I-1 amp. Although I think I can aim higher to get even cleaner sound from the speakers.
Do you have any other options in mind? The Moon Equinox is also an option, its cleaner sounding than the CD-1 with a similar way about it, although Simaudio is bringing out a CD3.3 very soon. But the new one I guess will be about 40% more due to exchange rate movements and general price increases from the factory.
Regards
Andrew
Update on PSB's...
Firstly I am using a 2-channel purist approach so cannot toy with equalisation just yet.
Well firstly I found that plugging in all 3 ports of the Two's cleaned up a lot of the bass heaviness, perhaps my room is lively (although I don't think its too lively given I have high ceilings, carpets, and sofa's taking up a fair amount of space). Cleaning up the bass heaviness allowed me to set the volume one or two notches higher as previously the overall bass sound would be too overwhelming - however doing this would also lead to a more closed sound from the midrange, and the excess bass would make the mids a bit more cloudy than desired. Anyway doing all this took to the mids to another level - from my experience the mids are clearly superior to all other floorstanders I have tested in the market in that price-range (bear in mind its probably only the bigger name brands that come out here given the small market) - even though there is no separate midrange driver, the overall distortion level is very very low, and there is no chestiness or thinness that I experienced before on low-mids, or harshness I heard before on female vocals in the high-mids range.
Anyway today my dealer had the One's in for me for a A/B comparison. Bass was very similar sounding maybe a touch thicker, probably better suited to a bigger space than mine. Without quesiton the vocals were better - mainly in terms of richness, texture and resolution. The overall sound of the midrange was quite similar, but the separate driver just gave more clarity. The overall midrange of the One's was exceptional to say the least, as good as anything out there that I have heard, and I have heard speakers that cost double to it. However I'd still say the midrange of the Two's is exceptionally good at the price-point for a floorstander...Overall I'd say the 50% extra charge for the One's is fair in terms of retaining value for money,.... for now I think I'll be holding onto the Two's as they are still very very enjoyable, and I am concerned about the bass levels of the One's in my small listening space...
I would like to give an update on this, which gives an important message to all audiophiles.
The Synchrony Two's have been very enjoyable no doubt since I bought them, providing me hours each night of enjoyable music.
Anyway I went to my favourite hifi store in Sydney to compare my speaker cables against theirs, and the manager there saw I had my speaker cables connected to very ordinary gold plated brass banana plugs (well I got them for free, but they were from a big name cable company which I won't name). He suggested I remove these and plug the speaker cables into the amp and speakers direct with no spade or banana....
Anyway all I can say the improvement in sound quality is astronomical:
(1) I can clearly differentiate bass drums vs bass guitar, and even differentiate different lines on the bass guitar. Drums are now fast, and much more articulate sounding.
(2) midrange super clear and full, and now completely separate from the bass issues I noted in my earlier post (and which were largely corrected by the port plug). Vocals very very impressive given there is no separate midrange driver.
(3) Tweeter is now super accurate, textured and sweet on the ears. where required. This titanium tweeter is a great compromise for all types of music no doubt.
Anyway this episode has shown me how one single weakness in a system (i.e. the brass banana plugs) can literally destroy the sound quality.
Would you please further explain this hook-up?
I previously connected my speakers to my amp using DH Labs T14 silver cable, connected through banana plugs at both ends. However these were 10 year old banana plugs, made of gold plated brass - very low end.
I simply removed the plugs and fed the wire directly into the connectors of the amp and speakers.
Did you "tin" the ends?
Hi
I have auditioned both the PSB T6 and Synchrony One speakers. They both sounded very good with the Synchrony One a bit better, especially the base. Each of these speakers were hooked up to a NAD T775 receiver. The speakers and receiver looked well built. I know there parent company is Lenbrook Industries. The only thing that bothers me is the price $5,000/pair for the speakers and $3,000 for the receiver. Both the speakers and receivers are made in CHINA. The quality control there is fair to poor. The labor costs there are nothing and I assume the parts are also made in China. I tried E-mailing Lenbrook industries, but they never replied. How do you feel about paying top money for articles made in China? If they were made in USA or Canada, no problem.