I heard that power/line conditioners really make a difference in audio quality. I wanted to find out about products. Questions:
1. Which brand and model is the overall best and why?
2. Which is the most popular and why?
3. If you could change something about the most popular one, what would it be?
4. If you could have whatever you want in a Power Conditioner what would it be?
5. Is there anything about a power conditioner's look that you feel is important for it to have?
6. What's the ideal retail price for a High-End Power conditioner?
:shock:
Boy what a loaded series of questions. Unfortunately, like all things audio, it comes down to the listener's preferences and requirements. Let me ask you. What are your reqirements for a power conditioner? Are they:
Voltage regulation
EMI/RFI suppression
Transient voltage protection
Balanced power
Power regeneration
Great sound
Power conditioners for audio offer hopefully at least one or more of the above. Preferably without negative colorations or limitations. The best approach is to do some of your own research (TAS is a great resource), make a short list of power conditioners based on your budget and requirements, audition them in your own system then decide from there which one best mates with your sytem and tastes. Good hunting!
Tweek Geek - Funny name. Serious audio.
In a forthcoming issue Jacob Heilbrunn will be reviewing the Synergistic Tesla Power Cell. Without giving away the farm, I've had a chance to use one in my system and I came away highly impressed with what it did and didn't do. What It did was open up the soundstage, add an element of warmth to a solid state system and lower the noise floor. What it didn't do was crimp dynamics, slow transients and truncate the high freqeuncies. the acid test is that when I removed it from my system I immediately regretted its absence. An impressive piece of engineering by Ted Denney.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
DEAR MR. Gader,
I am reading your comments with great sense of pleasure. No matter how subjective personal taste is, especially when it comes to music reproduction . . . do you think I should try to replace my existing speakers Meridian DSP 7000 with their new bigger brother DSP 7200 (which has some raving reviews). Forget expenses for a second and think purely in musical terms.
Some do work. On the cheaper side a Panamax HT-10 is nice.
Like many audio items, I've not seen any objective data showing improvements in frequency response when using power conditioners compared to not using them. I'm not familiar with tube amps, but any solid state device will contain its own built-in power conditioner (the power supply). The output of the power supply will be strongly de-coupled from the input, so fluctuations in the line will have a miniscule impact on the output of the power supply. As a mechanical engineer, power supply electronics are a bit out of my area of expertise, but I am somewhat skeptical of the need for the conditioning aspect of a separate device.
However, many people believe strongly they can hear a difference, and many power conditioners also perform surge protection as well as voltage regulation or UPS duties, both of which have definite advantages depending on the state of your power grid. It therefore makes sense to be to buy a quality device that will do the functions you require, and maybe you can find a place that will let you audition a unit so you can determine whether you are able to hear a difference.
As far as brands go, I'm more value oriented, so the list below may be on the cheap side for some:
Panamax makes several in practically every price range. I like the M8-HTpro, which is a floor type surge protector, with some conditioning. It is relatively inexpensive @ $150 or so. They also have boxed units that would mount with amps, transports, etc, with prices ranging from $200-$1000 or more. Panamax owns Furman which makes some very high end units as well. Panamax has a $5,000,000 warranty on connected equipment, which seems to be nice peace of mind.
APC has the HT-15 (or something like that), which was on sale in the silver color for ~$150. It has a large transformer and in addition to line conditioning, it has surge protection and Voltage Regulation (basically this means that if you have a voltage fluctuation on the incoming line, the internal transformer will attempt to keep the output voltage constant - this requires additional current, and will only work within a small band of fluctuation, but for transients it might work quite well). APC traditionally served the IT industry with uniterruptible power supplies, and had a good reputation there, but I don't know how that carried over to their audio line. Still, it has many features at a great price, if you can still find it on sale. I think they have a $500,000 insurance.
PS Audio had a nice floor unit, but it was $500. All the features of some of the Panamax rack type designs, but in the floor type layout. One of the AVG related mags had a review of them a while ago. They also have connected equipment insurance, maybe $3,000,000. Can't remember exactly.
Anyhow, lots of info...I'm currently leaning towards Panamax because they have a good insurance policy, a decent reputation, a relatively low price on the floor version, and are a located relatively near my area. Still haven't decided for sure though. I'll be interested in the upcoming review referenced above.
If you want the best you need to decide what you expect from a power filter and cable..
there is no real winner and favorite in the field but shunyata is a well respected name in this field...
I use to own the shunyata Vray conditioner with their Anaconda power cables..one draw back of the conditioner is that fact that it has got a current limitation of 2400w if i am not mistaken....therefore if you were to plug in 8 heavy duty components you might actually lose instead of gain from your power conditioners..on shunyatas strengths and weaknesses...strengths..black black background..nice space between the instruements..(i use a dedicated line coming on the my wall socket seperate from the house box).. weaknesses tends to put a forward soundstage, if its not a good mate with component (like i experienced with ARC Ref 8 CD player) too fast sometimes, and lower octaves heavy for some systems..
then there is the clear winner in my view....which is the most overlooked product in the market...Transparent Cable power link MM and PIMM...
PIMM is their top of the line power isolator. has got 2 shielded sockets and NO current limitations...means you can plug your power amps if you want..
its not cheap..USD 3800 for the isolator with the 2m Power link power cord....included in the price..I guess shunyata was USD 4000 for the vray and another 2000 for 1m anaconda cable...compared to what they do Transparent is a STEAL!...why simple..but off course its a choice...black black background...massive (both width and depth wise) soundstage..its spooky how much depth was there in system once i plugged in the power links...also pls see ARC Ref8 Cd Player with Transparent power cables blog for the change it made on the digital end of the system..
as for recom...I can not recommend transparent power link mm and PIMM...no i am not a dealer..I have a system that i rarely change components off...
you will not be dissappointed with either transparent or shunyata....but with transparent you will jump several levels with your system..i have also tried Nordost cables and using the Thor on my av system...let me tell you...stay away from nordost...i cant wait to send my thor away to replace it...Nordost makes really sub standart cables for the hype that surrounds its products..
i hope this helps
OR: you might choose an Audience aR2p-T or 6-T unit, which are the Teflon versions of the same non-Teflon units. the latest offering is a legitimtate use of the word "iincredible." There's a vivaciousness that's altogether closer to the live experience than to the electromechanical experince.
It's bound to BE the most popular as it gets more coverage.
What I would change is the ability to place the smaller aR2p-T unit on the floor instead of plugging it directly into the wall. The outlets are NOT at a good angle for inserting power cords, unless you like cords that are hanging DOWN from the unit and therefore don't have the best connection to the unit simply by virtue of Gravity.
I am quite, quite, quite, quite, quite and utterly besmirched by the Audience. This is beyond being just a line conditioner, and could be said to inahbit the Realm of It's-Not-Memorex-It's Live performers. To pay for the smallest unit (around $1600) is to get the sound of the bigger one at a fraction of the $8000. cost. Just be prepared to get a separate one for digital and then one with a high quality power bar and then plug everything in to THAT. You'll have just upgraded your system equivalent to a $30K more expensive system -- without spending 30K. In fact, you could just plug the Audience in and take the next 6 months coming out of the catatonic shock you'll be in once you hear the sound of your system. We can hardly wait for it to break in completely.
The ideal High End Line Conditioner price is $1700.00. Not that close to 2K to seem ultra expensive (2k is, you know [some don't]), and a reasonable cost for what it is supposed to do. I bougfht my Tice Power Block (both units tied together) by 1990, and have not plugged into the wall since then. The Tice Units were right around 2k. I didn't mind at the time I bought them: they were affordable within my budget. However, that was then. These day, the Audience aR2p-T is the line conditoner to beat. Hell, it's the component to beat. And it will be a spectacular upgrade for any system. ANY. Even HP's, remember???
What I can't figure out from your post is whether you think that power conditioners have an audible effect :)
Your enthusiasm is making my keyboard quiver...
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
PS Audio's Duet ($199) and Quintet ($349) are great power conditioners (without the usual side effects!) and are IMHO THE best buy in power conditioners.
I do think power conditioners, when working correctly, can allow the "electricity" to get through in a purer form. The purer the electricity, the less one hears contaminants from outside, and the more one hears the true sound of a component, in my opinion.
Incidentally, it's interesting that unplugging the microwave improves the sound. I've found this to be true regardless of having dedicated circuits, and in every residence I've lived in.
Over time, I've reviewed a lot of power conditioners and the experience left me with several conclusions:
1) Some--actually far too many--power conditioning products are guilty of the "two steps forward, three steps backward" syndrome. In other words, they fix some problems while causing others. Not good.
2) Some conditioners appear to be based on theories or claims that live somewhere on the borderline between fairy tale literature and outright science fiction. They often change the system's sound in peculiar ways without actually making a net improvement. Not good.
3) Some conditioners appear soundly designed and work quite well with components that do not draw much power, but are not suitable for use with large power amps or integrated amps. These, in my mind, are legitimately beneficial offerings provided you respect their output limitations.
4) A few conditioners appear soundly designed and work well with almost anything--even big power amps.
What one wants, I think, is a conditioner that first and foremost has taken the electronic equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath: first, do no harm... (actually, I did a bit of research and discovered that that phrase isn't really part of either the modern or classical Hippocratic Oath, but you get the general idea).
__________
With these observations in mind, let me say that three of the best conditioners I've tried thus far all come from PS Audio: the Power Plant Premier, the Quintet, and the Duet.
The Power Plant Premier (which is not just a power conditioner but actually a power regenerator) comes as close as anything I've heard to being a complete do-all, works-everywhere solution. It's only significant caveat, as near as I can tell, is a 1500-watt output limit, which won't be enough for some really large power and/or integrated amps. Otherwise, the Power Plant Premier does it all: voltage regulation, AC waveform distortion reduction, noise filtering, surge suppression, highly effective isolation between grouped pairs of outlets, start-up sequencing options, and some other technical benefits I can't recall off the top of my mind.
Sonic benefits: quieter and less "hashy" backgrounds, generally lowers the system noise floor, and achieves these results with no quashing of dynamics or suppression of low-level textural or transient details. Subjectively, the Premier enables components to more effectively render low-level sonic information for improved imaging and soundstaging, while also helping dynamic contrasts to stand out in sharper, clearer relief. And, oh-by-the-way, did I mention the Premier also seems to have a beneficial effect on turntables that use synchronous motors? (I speculate that this is partly attributable to the fact that the Premier precisely regulates the amplitude and shape of AC waveforms.).
For applications where you need "ceiling unlimited" power output, the Quintet (5 x isolated banks of 2 outlets) or Duet (2 x isolated banks of 2 outlets) make very good solutions. They aren't quite as effective as the Power Plant Premier in an absolute sense, but they cost less and perform beautifully with whopper amps.
Note: In the Playback listening room, I use a pair of Duets fed from separate wall circuits, plus a Power Plant Premier. We have our big reference Anthem Statement P5 multichannel amp (which is designed to be fed from two separate AC lines) served by one AC cord from each of the two Duets. Then, all other system components are plugged into the Power Plant Premier. Together, these conditioners make for a stable reviewing platform that lets us hear what components under test can really do.
In my home system, used for most of the TAS reviews I write, I use PS Audio Soloist in-wall power conditioners, one of which feeds a Power Plant Premier. Everything in my home system (except my ultra-beefy 500 Wpc Musical Fidelity kW500 hybrid integrated amp) is plugged into the Premier.
So far, results have been very, very good, though I'm of course open to other solutions that might offer even better performance in the future (after all, the search for continuous performance improvements is part of the fun of this game, no?).
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Dear Mr. Martens
I am reading your comments with great sense of pleasure. No matter how subjective personal taste is, especially when it comes to music reproduction . . . do you think I should try to replace my existing speakers Meridian DSP 7000 with their new bigger brother DSP 7200 (which has some raving reviews). Forget expenses for a second and think purely in musical terms.
I think you'll find this usefull. mapleshaderecords.com under power conditioners. Check it out. This man has reinvented the wheel when it comes to audiophile products.
Thank you. You are in a position to have a great deal of experience.
Gordon
AC power conditioners vary from simple power strips to the most sophisticated active and passive units. Prices vary accordingly, topping out at $5-6,000 and up. How many models are out there--100? 200? The ratio of a unit's "doing good" to "doing harm" by all reports is quite variable. Until recently, compression of dynamics was a big issue. But major advances have been made in the past couple of years, to the point where the best units do lots of good and very little harm, and even the cheaper ones can be quite good. Correspondingly, most of the major players have new units out. HP described the effect of the Audience aR12-T (and aR6-T) in TAS 186, saying they "raised the performance standard...so dramatically as to redefine the art." RH reviewed the Running Springs Audio Dimitri in TAS 193, concluding that it is "world-class [but ] takes this performance to another level" and is simply an "essential component." There's no longer any doubt as to the benefit of a "good" power conditioner--it is an essential step toward the "absolute sound," and it makes the music substantially more lifelike and enjoyable to listen to. Strips away haze, increases clarity, richness, and presence, inflates images and soundstage. In short, realism. Nobody knew the extent of grunge carried in AC lines...until somebody figured out how to get rid of it. So for every one of us, it comes down to: (1) money; (2) desire; and (3) finding the right product. If you care, and have the means, you have to go for it or suffer accordingly, knowingly or not. This raises an interesting situation. There's a long-running discussion as to how to allocate an audio budget among components--source, amp, speakers, accessories. But the game has changed, if you're serious about it. It's been apparent for some time that cabling must be fully considered a component of the budget--including AC cords. Now we find that power conditioning likewise must be fully considered a component of the budget. I believe cabling should approach the average component cost among source, amp, speakers. For some, that will run well into five figures; for others, merely hundreds or thousands. The power conditioner, too, should approach average component cost, up to that upper end of $5-6,000 or so. If you're into five-figure components, you get a break, because $5-6,000 will do the job, unless you need two of them. Of course, most of us build our systems over time...endlessly. Please recognize that I'm generalizing. And I'm not posing as an "expert." But I've been through Richard Grey, PS Audio, Shunyata, and Walker, and have ended up, happily, with the aR6-T. When you hear it, you know it. So go hear it! But know that break-in is real, and takes a long time. Good listening!
I use two PS Audio Duets and a Juice Bar. One Duet for digital, the other for analog. Both have individual heavy gauge lines to a duplex (one is a PS Audio Premier, the other a Hummel I got from Sound Applications). I run my four Herron power amps out of the juice bar from the analog duplex. I have surge protection at the power board.
I agree with JLeeMD (above) that they are good value and more than satisfactory. However, I wold get something better if I had the funds. I have been told that PS Audio are 'just awful' because of the nickle plating they use. In fact, "700% less conductive than the copper in the Hummel duplex"!!!
Any comments?
I don't know.
I recently auditioned a couple of power conditioners, on the advice of my dealer. I originally wasn't planning to follow my dealer's recommendation, the Transparent PIR, because the only reviews I could find sounded too much like promotions, and I couldn't find any reviews on more trusted sites, particularly TAS, Stereophile or techradar. These three all had good things to say about the PS Audio Power Plant Premier, though, which also happened to be on sale at promotional prices, and was significantly cheaper than the Transparent. So I borrowed the PS Audio from another dealer, and spent a night listening with it and without it, and it seemed to be okay. It didn't seem to be all that well made, though.
I ran this by my dealer, and she said she didn't recommend it, that they had tried the PS Audio in the store with my amp, a Boulder 865, and found that it affected the soundstage; it made the sound stage much smaller. She suggested I might want to hear this by putting the gear back into the wall and see the sound stage get larger.
I talked again with the PS Audio dealer, and asked about upgrade or trade in possibilities for the PS Audio in the future, and he replied that there weren't any. He also said that PS Audio was not an easy company to deal with, that they had a couple of hits on their hand, particularly with the Wavelength, they were selling all they could produce, and they didn't seem that concerned with customer service. I also rechecked the price including the recommended PS Audio Soloist in-wall power conditioner and the inevitable recommended upgrade cable, and this came close to the cost of the Transparent.
My regular dealer, in contrast, offered 100 percent trade-in on new releases by Transparent (anticipated in the summer), and also towards other equipment, if I so chose. The upshot is that I took her Transparent Power Isolator 8, with the option of returning or trading in later. It also seems okay. It does look more solidly made than the PS Audio.
I had lunch with an electrical engineer the other day, who was quite amused that I had bought a power conditioner, and explained in detail why it wouldn't have any affect on the sound, that the first thing that the amp does is fix up the signal coming in.
As I said, I don't know. Keep it? Return it? At the moment I'm inclined to keep it. But the advice I've gotten in another forum is, every dollar I'm prepared to spend on power conditioners, I should spend it first on room accoustics, that the return is higher.
-- Daniel
Hi Daniel,
I was told by a designer of an upper end conditioner that PS was 'just awful' because of the nickel plating they use as a conductor. Also, a well designed power amp really should not require conditioning.He said it was a signal to noise thing. Whatever that means! He also said the most important things to condition were, in order, my phono stage, preamp,cd player plus all video.
I have two heavy gauge dedicated lines to two duplex outlets in my room. This is very important. One is for digital.I run it to a PS duet and then to my TV,DVD,HD STB and digital outdoor TV ariel amplifier. The other line is for analog.I run it to another duet that I run my phono stage, t/table, preamp and radio out of. My cd player I run from the digital duplex out of a step down tranny.I like the sound that way. My four Herron power amps are run from the other analog outlet to a PS juice bar. I have surge protection at the power board which should protect the power amps as the juice bar has no surge protection.
Its about as good as I can get it without spending big bucks on a better conditioner.
As for reviews in TAS and Stereophile. I subscribe to both and find them invaluable for assessing components but just because they dont review something really does not matter. Years ago S/phile reviewed the early Herron power amps and since then I have not seen anything about any Herron gear in either rag. Maybe Herron is not expensive or exclusive enough for them. I dont know. What I do know is my Herron pre, phono and power amps are just great!
I love the preamp especially. I leave it on all the time and I can report that it has remained totally stable for the past (about) three years. As far as I know this is unheard of in this sort of hybrid amp.
I would love to see TAS or S/phile review Herron but whether they do or not wont change my opinion of Keith Herron's designs.
Cheers,
Ross
Dear Mr Martens,
Have you had any experience with the Bermester 948 Power Conditioner?
Art Ross
ADR