Olive Music Servers
JB3JCooney -- Fri, 12/03/2010 - 16:38
Slowly contemplating either building and/or buying a music server. Like the cost and ability to customize provided by building one myself from Apple TV or a computer-based system like a Mac Mini. Other the other hand, the truth is that I don't have a lot of time to deal with any "issues" assorted with making such a system work. Thus, it may make sense for me to spend the extra money and buy a dedicated system.
With that in mind, there's a lot of information out there on QSonix and Sooloos. Does anyone have any experience with Olive's music servers? How do they compare to these others, both in terms of high quality audio (with or without a free-standing DAC) and interface/ease of use?
Thanks. J.A.C.
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I will be reviewing the Olive in a month or so (after CES).
Frankly, the "issues" with an Apple TV, Sonos, Squeezebox, or Mac-based computer system are LESS than your average high-end turntable.
I can't vouch for PC-based system as I don't use one.
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Steven,
Will it be their newly release O6HD "audiophile" branded server? BTW, I look forward to seeing you (and Chris) again at CES!
- Syd
Hello Syd,
Yep, it will be the O6.
SS
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
That should be an interesting review. Olive has really cranked up the marketing engine on this product in the audiophile community. On a aide note, are their any plans for you or your colleagues at TAS to review the ARC DAC 8?
Olives were never audiophile players. Let's see how this new one turns out to be.
I have owned the Olive 4HD for about a year now. As with all audio products there are some tradeoffs.
On the positive side
You can save discs bit for bit rather than having to use FLAC.
It is pretty easy to drag hi-res files to the unit.
The unit handles up to 24-192 files, (One reason I won't consider the SooLoos)
The 2TB drive is large enough for me since I remove crappy discs or those I only listen to once a year.
The DAC's are pretty good but you will benefit by running the digital out to a quality DAC. Of course the external unit will cost at least twice as much as the 4HD.
Very good customer support.
Negatives
The User interface still needs work and you are limited with what you can do with the remote.
The web browser interface is a bit slow.
Soft resets are required every so often.
You cannot have both the touchscreen and the HDMI video-out working at the same time.
Stillone, Thankyou. That's very good and usefull information.
I have ordered the Olive 4 D and it should arrive soon. I tired of the way that i-tunes orders Classical Music, which is the bulk of my listening.
I'm hoping that the Olive will be an improvement, but am prepared to send it back within the 30 day trial if it is not. It would have been nice to get a loaner from a good old fashioned bricks and mortar store for a few days, but those days are gone.
I don't have a lot of classical music so I can't say whether you will be happy with the data options provided. I do know I had to do quite a bit of Album Art editing with my 4HD. Not a big deal as I have a master art file for use with several programs.
I do know of one individual who returned his unit without an issue.
jim
I just purchased an O4HD a couple of weeks ago. I can confirm all of Jim's/stillone's comments, but for the customer service via e-mail has been poor. They did return phone calls. I've gotten around the remote issues by using the iPad app. Not bad, except you cannot manage the music files from it (you need to use iMaestro on a PC or laptop to do that), or see timing of tracks (only visible on the touch screen). I've suggested this to Olive for a future software update. It is very nice to see all of your music listed out on the iPad app; I look forward to the day when I no longer have to hunt for CDs. (And to when indie rock is available via HiRes download!)
I am running the digital out via a Black Cat Veloce cable to the DAC of a Resolution Audio Opus 21. Sounding quite clear and detailed; very true to the quality of the recording (good or bad). 24/96 file import is working fine via a PC/WiFi interface; drag and drop as noted. I just did an A/B with the same track via CD on the Opus' transport vs. 24/96 FLAC. You can hear the difference!
A question for the experts tuning into this forum: why not save the space and import CDs using FLAC instead of WAV? This is what Olive recommends and what I've been doing so far. Is it worth the space to use WAV for CD imports instead?
Thanks,
Chris
Chris, good points. I have never e-mailed Olive, I just use their 800 number and someone always pics up as long as I call during business hours Pacific time.
We can debate this all day and will get nowhere. I still believe bit for bit sounds better than flac. I don't here huge difference nor could I probably tell which was playing if I just walked into the room, but when I A/B I always prefer the bit for bit.
One point about using Maestro to manage your music, Olive suggests you Firefox to access the server,
Jim
I have looked at the Olive. My major questions is what do they have as a backup system. I really don't want to load 1TB of music and have the storage media fail and have to reload. Does any one know what there failure recovery method is?
Thanks
Charlie
You can attach a external hard drive via USB to backup the 06HD. I called them to verify this. It's unfortunate that you cannot backup wirelessly.
Charlie: Syd is correct. I purchased a Seagate 2T external HD to back up the files on the Olive. It connects via the USB port on the back of the unit. Can take a while; they recommend doing backups overnight. I concur. I can save all of you setting this up for the first time some hassle--the backup drive needs to be 2T for a 2T Olive. AND, here's the key point, the backup drive must be partitioned in FAT32 format. Problem is, most current large external drives are in a newer format. (Gamers apparently run into this a lot when backing up PS or Xbox.). Long story short: the solution is to download or buy 3rd party software that will re-format the drive to FAT32. Do NOT waste your time using a DOS command to do this; it doesn't work.
Hope your New Year is filled with good music! :-)
Steven - Have you got a hold of the Olive 06HD yet for review?
A change in plans has sent the Olive O6HD to Anthony Cordesman. Since he also reviewed the Soolos, it should be an interesting review...
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
I've owned an Olive O4HD since October, and wanted to post my own experience with it.
In a nutshell, the concept is great, but the execution (and their support of it) is pretty shaky. I've found the customer support to be surprisingly poor -- emails, phone messages, and website support requests left unanswered for days to weeks. My unit had to be shipped back to San Francisco (at my expense, from Boston) after only two months of ownership, due to a touchscreen that performed progressively worse until it ceased to function entirely. Their diagnosis was that the ribbon cable connecting it to the motherboard was "ripped". Even after that repair, the touchscreen will cease to function properly every 2-3 weeks, requiring a guessing game of recalibration, power-cycling the unit, and occasional software resets until it finally works again. Having done a demo of the unit before purchasing it, I knew full well that its style of touchscreen (i.e., resistive) would not be as responsive or allow the sort of swiping and gestures as a capacitive glass touchscreen like an iPod/iPhone. But it's been much worse than expected, and probably the single biggest flaw of the device.
On the plus side, it's great to have that 2TB storage capacity, the ability to play 24-192 files, the convenience of a decent Burr-Brown built-in DAC, and control from an iOS device or web browser -- those were all the reasons I bought it in the first place. But the PHP-based web browser interface is buggy as well, missing all sorts of obvious features and providing a markedly slower (and more frustrating) means of managing a large music library than, say, software like MediaMonkey or foobar2000 on a PC.
I have some idle curiosity whether the O6HD and its glass touchscreen solves the responsiveness/quality issues I've had, but I have so little faith in the manufacturing and software quality of Olive that I would not want to pay twice the price of an O4 to find out. I could pay much less and rig up an iPod- or PC-based system that would have a much better UI but worse sound, or pay substantially more and get the sound quality but not necessarily get a better UI (unless I pay Sooloos-level money) . I'm just not sure what else is in this same price/sound-quality space as the O4HD (~$2500) but I'd love to find out. It's been a very mixed, frustrating experience so far.
- Nick
I can understand some of your frustrations with the Olive 4HD. The Maestro interface is the easiest way to find and select music. Any touchscreen (including the SooLoos ) is useless to some degree when the unit sits with your gear far from your listening position.
I had some issues with the touchscreen and after sending it back for repair everything has been fine. I did learn the best way to keep the unit and screen from locking was to follow this sequence to shutting it down when I was finished. Press an "Hold" the pause/stop button until the unit displays the square stop button on the screen. Then tap the power off button on the unit or remote. This has stopped all lock-ups and the need for soft or hard resets.
As I previously noted, I have have not had an issue getting in touch with Olive's support as long as I called during their business hours Pacific Time. Maybe as they sell more units the issue is becoming aggravated.
Jim
I can understand some of your frustrations with the Olive 4HD. The Maestro interface is the easiest way to find and select music. Any touchscreen (including the SooLoos ) is useless to some degree when the unit sits with your gear far from your listening position.
I had some issues with the touchscreen and after sending it back for repair everything has been fine. I did learn the best way to keep the unit and screen from locking was to follow this sequence to shutting it down when I was finished. Press an "Hold" the pause/stop button until the unit displays the square stop button on the screen. Then tap the power off button on the unit or remote. This has stopped all lock-ups and the need for soft or hard resets.
As I previously noted, I have have not had an issue getting in touch with Olive's support as long as I called during their business hours Pacific Time. Maybe as they sell more units the issue is becoming aggravated.
Jim
Thanks Jim, I'll give that shutdown sequence a try.
- Nick
I am also investigating options for adding an audiophile quality digital music server to my system. Per Steven Stone's post (above) I am awaiting Anthony Cordesman's review of the Olive 06HD. However, after reading some of the other posts on this thread, I have reservations about Olive -- both their hardware and software, and particularly their customer support. Perhaps Mr. Cordesman's review will address some of these issues.
Meanwhile, my question to the community -- what other equipment is out there in the financial territory between, say, the Olive (not terribly expensive), and the Sooloos (big bucks)? Anyone have experience with other gear for audiophile applications?
Greg
Meridian Sooloos needs to address the misconception that they are ALWAYS the high-priced spread.
The Meridian Media Core 200 coupled to an iTouch or iPad gets you all the good stuff for $4000 - Less than an Olive 06.
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Hi Gregory,
I share the frustrations of others regarding the Olive 4HD. I used the Olive for about a year. From day one I used an external DAC, a Bryston BDA-1. I was never pleased with the Olive DAC.
About six months ago I purchased a Bryston BDP-1 digital player and I have never looked back. I submit to you that it is superior to the Sooloos and for less money. One of the biggest issues I had with the Olive was the lack of control over the ripping process. Further, although the Olive provides a USB port for backing up files, the backup can only be read by the Olive. The backup is useless if you wish to transfer the files to another location.
On the other hand, the Bryston is a player of audio files only. It does not have the ability to rip discs. Nor does it have any internal storage capacity or even an internal DAC. It's sole purpose is to play audio files from attached USB drives and send the digital bitstream to an attached DAC. I use a program called dbPoweramp to rip discs to my computer, then transfer those files to a USB hard drive that I attach to the BDP-1. High resolution files downloaded from the Internet to my computer or Reference Recordings HRx files are also transferred to the drive (the BDP-1 can play back files up to 24/192). This accomplishes two things. I maintain control over the ripping process (including meta data) and I have a clean backup of all files on my computer.
To control the player, I use the free iPhone app "mPod" and the almost free (I think it's $2.99) iPad app "mPad". These apps are similar to the apps Apple offers for their Apple TV and are far superior to those offered by Olive.
With the Bryston BDP-1 and BDA-1, I think you will find you are getting the best the market has to offer at this time, including the Sooloos, and definitely superior to any Olive product.
To Steven Stone: Have you or anyone with the Absolute Sound had an opportunity to listen to the Bryston BDP-1?
Any TAS writer who's attended CES and/or RMAF has heard the BDP-1. I've heard it in four rooms that I remember.
I was planning to review it but scheduling issues made that impossible. It IS scheduled for a published review VERY soon.
I have a strong bias toward "open systems" like the Bryston and against "closed systems" such as the Olive.
YMMV, but I feel anyone with an already established digital music library isn't going to go with an Olive...
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Steve,
A few questions for you:
1. Can share more of your thoughts on the Media Core 200 (pro's/con's)? How do you like it compared with your Weiss DAC 202?
2. Could you elaborate on the Olive 06HD being a "closed system" and why it may not appeal to someone with an established music library, with the implication being that it might appeal to someone who has not yet to ripped their CD's to a computer/hard drive yet?
3. Any word on when A.H.C's review on the 06HD will be posted to the G.E.C section of the site?
Thanks!
Syd,
1. No. Such totally different animals for different applications...
2. It is designed to work only with music in its hard drive. It doesn't read external drives (except during it's own back-up process). It is self-contained and only semi Internet or network aware (Can't use external libraries, but has Internet radio.)
3. Not my department. Only Robert Harley knows for sure...:)
Best Wishes
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Thanks Steve...
I'll push a little more on gettting some general observations on the Media Core (forget the Weiss comparison). What's your take so far?
The Media core 200 is a very slick and VERY light control center that serves primarily as an A/D, digital router, and DSP.
The Meridian speakers have all the D/A's and amplifier functions built-in. So, technically, the Media Core has very little sound of its own since it has very little in the way of audio circuits. The Media Core 200 is fairly inexpensive as Meridian products go, but it needs other Meridian components to form an entire system, and it isn't made to work with any other manufacturer's gear.
Without other Meridian gear the Media Core 200 by itself makes the sound of one hand clapping.
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications