Nola Baby Grand Speakers
Elliot Goldman -- Wed, 11/03/2010 - 13:47
I know these forums get a lot of opinions about a lot of different items and it seems every week there is a new "best" of something however for me there is only the ear test and whether the item in question passes that test. I have been in the Audio Industry fir a long time. I am a music lover and don't really care about the technology that makes it happen. I have learned that a technical advance does not always mean that we get a sonic advance. I have trouble understanding how so many speakers can be considered the best by the magazine and the fact that there is little or no interplay between the reviewing principles.
Electrostats, Planars, Di-Poles, Box, Horn etc all sound different and most people have a preference for what they prefer.
THis brings me to the Nola's. This is the speaker that for me seems to have evolved from all the speakers of my past It has "balls." It plays soft, it plays loud, it has great bass, it is fast, it is clear, it has great staging, dimensionality and space. It can layer out in 3D an orchestra in spades and at the end of it all make you want to keep on listening for hours. I have been listening to so much music lately because it is the one thing in my life that takes me away from the stress of eveyday.
Bruce's The Ghost Of Tom Joad, Lyle Lovett - Family Reserve, Bradford Marsailles Trio Jeepy, HRx recording of Britton, Avishai Cohen Live at the Blue Note...it doesn't really matter the Nola is a TRUE TIME Machine. One that really does take you back to the future. If you like the guitars and strings and micro dynamics its there. If you like drum shots, they are there and if you like to sing along you will just do it.
Try it on you might really like as much as I do.
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As I stated, I need to work and burn in the system, but they do what few others do. You are right regarding those qualities of the MBL.
Even without my system set up "perfectly" and without all components yet installed, what is so damn enjoyable about them in addition to their tonal accuracy is the ability to sit, lay down, stand, move around or even stand on your head if that is your thing and the music is as good with as spectacular a sound stage where ever you find yourself. I am not exaggerating in this regard.
My system still needs significant work but I love where it is going.
Looking foward to putting in the last few pieces of gear and really dialing the system in.
Maybe you can invite Syd over when its finished and show him what they do!
Eliot, Priaptor and others who are proud owners of the NOLA Baby Grands (or those who have experimented pairing the NOLA Baby Grands with the right electronics), would you mind sharing your thoughts on whether the ARC REF 5 + ARC 250s vs. the McIntosh c500 + 2301s would be a better pairing for the NOLA Baby Grands? How did you end up making your decision? Have you also experimented mixing brands (say ARC REF 5 + McIntosh 2301s)? Finally, what speaker cable and interconnects did you decide upon?
Many thanks
BRbattles,
My Baby Grands are currently driven by a VAC Phi300.1a in stereo mode with great results. Preamp is typically a Concert Fidelity CF-080LX but I am borrowing an ARC Anniversary Reference Pre at the moment and it sounds pretty awesome! My cables are Cardas Clear, for both interconnect and Speaker. The speaker cables are also using a Synergistic Research Universal Speaker cell.
I don't have specific experience with the McIntosh equipment, but based on what I've heard elsewhere, the comments that I've heard from others, as well as my experience that the Baby Grands are very easy to drive, I believe that the choice of electronics is much more a factor of your system synergy and sonic preferences, than any compatibility issue with the Baby's. Yes, you can mix brands as you can see from my choice. I believe that Priaptor had a Ref 5 and used the Mac amps, but his recent comments elsewhere indicate that he is now using a Ref 5 / Ref 250 combo, so maybe he'll chime in with his direct experience.
Nola had the Baby Grand Series 2 at RMAF, paired with the ARC Ref 5 & Ref 250s as well, cabled with Nordost, which Carl seems to like. The sound was exceptional. Bottom line is that the Nola speakers are not amplifier picky like many of the other "best" speakers out there. I believe that you would be happy with any good electronics, based on your individual taste. Hope this helps.
Tom
Tom,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts - very much appreicated. I have a few follow up questions if you dont' mind. At this point, I am considering purchasing a pair of in-store baby grand series 1 demos from a dealer vs. purchasing a new pair of baby grand series 2. Since you have heard the series 2, do you feel that the sound quality was materially better than that of the series 1 (I recognize this may be a difficult question to answer for the obvious reasons...different electonics, venue, etc.)? Also, since you are a dealer, are you considering swapping out your series 1 for series 2 in the not so distant future? Since one of my very best friends is a hi-fi dealer (regrettably not a ARC or NOLA dealer), I am leaning toward the McIntosh because I can likely procure the McIntosh equipment at a very attractive price. That said, I have been told conflicting things about the sound quality of the McIntosh pre-amps (when compared to ARC pre-amps (specifically the REF 5)). From one very good source, I have heard that the ARC pre-amps are markedly superior to the McIntosh pre-amps but from another very credible source I have heard that if I go with McIntosh amps, I should also go with a McIntosh pre-amp (specifically the c-500). That said, I'm not sure whose opinion to trust...perhaps others who have tried both ARC and McIntosh pre-amps could share their opinions how they compare (as well as on my prior question regarding the ARC 250s vs. the McIntosh 2301s)?
Many thanks!
brbattles,
I am getting my Series II in a couple of weeks and can give you an in house update.
I owned MC2301s and can tell you, no comparison. REF250s all the way. I bought the REF 250s and have never looked back. If you are going to make the kind of investment you seem to heading towards, I can unequivocally state that the REF250s are significantly, not by a small margin, better. I owned the MC2301s for a year so I know the sound. The REF250s are in a different league and really work well with the Babys. I am also using a Ref5 which I love. Also no comparison to the Mac stuff.
Do yourself a very big favor and despite price go with ARC, you won't be sorry, trust me. A REF5 mated with REF250s and Babys will keep you very very happy for a very very long time. The most listenable system I have ever owned.
What source or sources are you thinking of using?
Priaptor, forgot to ask, what cables/interconnects are you using? My dealer friend carries both transparent and audioquest so from a cost standpoint it would be more economical to stick with their products; however, I know that Carl highly recommends Nordost for the Baby Grands.
Thanks again
brbattles,
I do feel that the Series 2 Babies are a "significant" improvement over the Series 1, BUT, everything must be evaluated within the context of price. If you can get a great price for the 1s and save a lot of money (if that matters) you will in NO way be unhappy with the 1s! Unless you really know the speaker well, and absent a way to directly compare them, it would be tough to immediately tell the difference. Yes, I am looking to sell my current demos at an attractive price so that I can replace them with a Series 2.
Regarding the electronics, my PERSONAL preference is strongly towards ARC. However, I have been impressed with what McIntosh has been delivering in amplifiers of late. I don't think that it would be any kind of issue to use an ARC preamp with the Mac amps. As I mentioned above, Priaptor has direct experience with ARC vs Macintosh so hopefully he sees this and can answer you directly. Any other comment of mine would be purely supposition.
Happy to help you in any way. These are absolutely exceptional speakers. I became a Nola dealer BECAUSE of these speakers and the sound of their entire line, not the other way around.
Tom
Thanks Tom and Priaptor. Your feedback is very helpful. Priaptor, I very much look forward to hearing your impression of the series 1 vs. the series 2 once you take possession. As a source, I am all digital at this point. I was considering building one of Chris Connaker's CASH music servers (computeraudiophile.com) or investing in a Sooloos or the like. As a DAC, I was considering ARC's DAC 8, Berkley' DAC, or a Meitner Audio MA-1. Tom, I will drop you an email regarding your series 1 demos.
Thanks again.
brbattles,
If you go the Chris's route, which is what I have recently done, I would recommend getting it prebuilt from
http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/CAPS-20-CAPS.htm
It is just a few bucks more than doing it yourself and it is, from my perspective with the DAC8 which I own, performing better than any Mac/Player, including Amarra, Pure Music and Audirvana that I had previously. It is also outperforming my reference transport which now I will sell.
I really like the sound I am now getting. I am not sure if the improvement of the DAC8 with CAPS is driver related or the CAPS or some combination, but it is definitely a stronger performer with the DAC8. According to Chris, the Berkeley would be more on the side of the DAC8 whereas the Meitner would be more on the side of a Debussy. I tend to really enjoy the ARC stuff and am very happy. Remember that with the Berkeley if you want a USB solution you would need their Alpha USB device.
I also can't stress enough how much I would recommend ARC over the McIntosh. The ARC really brings out much more of what the speaker was built to do, particularly an amazing and deep soundstage. The ARC is much more effortless, no muddiness with the bass as the MC2301s can be and provide tremendous air and detail. There are subtle changes to a system but this was not one of them. It was transforming and I would presume they will get accolades in the months to come.
One note regarding Series I and II. Carl was playing them with REF250s compared to what I believe he used to use which were the REF210s. The REF250s are a quantum leap from the 210s as I choose the MC2301s after demoing the 210s which I though inferior to the MC2301, so how much of an improvement (which I am sure there is) is related to the speaker relative to the REF250s I will be able to tell you when I get the Series II. The REF250s and the Babys just go together perfectly.
Priaptor, thanks again for your advice. Getting direction from someone like yourself who has had real world experience living with the actual equipment up for consideration is invaluable. Looking back on your DAC decision, did you have the opportunity to evaluate the Berkeley or Meitner in comparison to the DAC 8? Also, what cabling are you using (digital, interconnect, speaker, power) and did you stick with the stock jumpers that came with the baby grands? Are you also using a power condition? Regarding your source, what software interface are you using with the CAPs and are you using an iPad or the like to control? Finally, have you had the opportunity to try JPlay or CPlay yet? If so, would love to hear how you believe they compare to jRiver (though I believe they can be used with jRiver as an external player).
Thanks again
brbattles,
I am using all LessLoss power cords which I really enjoy and believe they outperform the Audience Au24. I am using Oracle Matrix HD 90 Bi-wire Speaker Interface that the MIT people will be converting to a single interface as the Series II is no longer biwired. I am using Magnum MA Proline Balanced Interconnects and Audioquest Diamond USB cable. My so called power conditioner is the Silver Circle Audio 5.0.
I have not tried the Nordost as the only line I would be interested in is the Odins and they are absurdly expensive and from my discussions with someone I trust who has now changed out his Odin's for LessLoss's TunnelBridge, if I were going to try a new cable it would be that. However, currently, I am very happy with the MIT stuff, which is NOT cheap and am getting excellent results.
As to the Silver Circle, when I owned the MC2301s, it made an amazing difference and does so also with the REF250s. One of the few conditioners I think makes sense as it is a power transformer.
I never compared the DAC8 to the Meitner or the Berkeley. I have gone through a hate to love relationship with the DAC8. My initial impressions were less than stellar as a result of a bad board, broken connector and loose internal connectors which were initially sealed with silicone rather than what they are now doing, namely soldering. Before changing out a component I like to try to get the most out of it. After figuring out why it was underpeferorming the PS Audio DAC, ARC fixed all parts very quickly and tethering it to a Mac Mini made all the difference. A clear winner. However, after reading Computer Audiophile and experimenting with different players I was astonished, after using Pure Music for 6 months how different the sonic characteristics were between AudirvanaPlus/Pure Music vs. Amarra. More astonished was Chris's comments about the Mac vs. the C.A.P.S 2.0 in his Aurender review, a server I was thinking about getting. This led me on to experimenting and indeed my transport via SPDIF (XLR) into my DAC8 outperformed my USB solution. Talking to Tom and other on the site I began experimenting. I loaded Bootcamp on my MacAir with a trial version of JRiver and found a signficant improvement compared to my Mac solution. As I stated, whether this because JRiver is better or the ARC Drivers are optimized for Windows, I do not know. I then bought the C.A.P.S 2.0 from Small Green Computer, loaded JRiver and have transformed the DAC8 into a stellar performer. Right now I have the system sounding spectacular with the combination and have NO desire to change. My prior reference, namely my transport, is no longer my reference and will be getting sold.
As to JPlay, I have tried it, but unfortunately, the DAC8 drivers are limited to ASIO and despite it appearing that it should work with Kernel Event or WASAPI-Event, I cannot get it to work so I am "stuck" with JRiver and at this time couldn't be happier.
As to interconnects and speaker wires. Carl likes the Nordost. He shows with Odins. These are incredibly expensive and unfortunately, I have not heard them. I have always like the ability of the MIT to present a large soundstage and go back to my old Spectral and Wilson days with these cables and really like them. If you know someone who could lend you these cables, assuming you are willing to part with the $$ for Odins, I am assuming it would be in your interest. From my perch, I would spend the extra cash on the REF250s.
HI BR,
I would be happy to discuss my feelings with you if you want to contact me. I am a dealer for both lines. I have tried the combinations you have asked about.
I just can't express my conclusions here in a public forum,
One thing all of the combo's you asked about work really well with the Nola's. THere is no bad choice here but there is better choices!!!