Newbie question: Apple for multi-room music

LarryB -- Fri, 10/17/2008 - 14:32

I am in the process of building a new home. I want background music throughout the house via in-ceiling speakers, but hi-quality music in my main listening room.

Sonos seeemd to be just the ticket for me: I could use their units with built-in amps throughout the house, and the digital out of their non-amped unit (into my Reimyo DAC) in the main room. I have since learned that the Sonos generates considerable jitter, so I am considering adding either an Empirical Audio Pacecar between it and the Reimyo, or perhaps a Cullen-modified Sonos. (I assume the basic Sonos will be fine for background music.)

Knowing my tastes in audio, I am also considering switching from the Reimyo to a Wavelength Cosecant. This will require me to have my computer in the music room; I originally resisted this but upon further consideration, it may not be so bad after all. I would still use the Sonos for the rest of the house.

At RMAF it was suggested to me in strong terms that I should use an Apple system instead of Sonos. But here is where my ignorance really shows: Precisely what Apple products would I need to distribute music throughout the house? Are they simple to use, or do they require a degree in computer science? ;) Would I need an external amp in each room, or could I use a multi-channel amp in a centralized location? And last but not least, how could I control it from each room? I absolutely positively do not want to have to carry around an iPhone; instead, I want a controller in each room.

Thanks for not laughing. ;)

Larry

Robert Harley -- Sun, 10/19/2008 - 17:10

Check out Steven Stone's article in the August, 2008 issue on this subject. I don't have any experience myself with the Apple products, but I understand that they are simple to install, configure, and operate.

If you get a computer for the listening room, pay close attention to how much fan and disk-drive noise it produces. When listening to high-res files, it's surprising how low-level detail can be masked.

LarryB -- Mon, 10/20/2008 - 09:14

Thanks Robert. I read Steven's article when it was published but at the time I was not in the market for a system. I wil re-read it with a more careful eye.

Please re-fresh my memory - - did the article address using an Apple-based system for multi-room distribution?

Last but not least, computer noise is indeed something that concerns me; even the drive in my cable box can be annoying at time.

Regards,

"Digital finishes what the transistor began" James Boyk

Steven Stone -- Mon, 10/20/2008 - 10:21

For multi-room applications Sonos is the easiest and least obtrusive way to go. My review will be in TAS very soon. Sonos also runs easily on a NAS hard drive so you don't have to leave your computer on to access your muisc library. Logitec/ Slim devices systems also do well for multi-room applications but require more work for NAS-based music library solution.

Apple TV is a great one-room solution and can be used with no conflicts with either Sonos or Slim Devices.

Apple TV, Sonos, and Slim Devices boxes with the exception of the Transporter will not support anything over 48 kHZ. For 96/24 you will need the Transporter.

Jitter issues are blown WAY out of proportion by jitter-bugs. If you have a well-designed DAC their effects will be minimized to the point where other sonic issues (like the recording qaulity of the software itself) will far outweigh jitter.

The Wavelength DAC is exceptional for USB, but having a more flexible DAC that also supports SDIF give you a lot more options.

Robert Harley has a specially-configured Media PC that he has been using in his system that he will be writing about soon, but I feel that this solution also has a great future, But it, too, is a single point rather than multi-room device.

Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications

Roger (not verified) -- Sat, 09/19/2009 - 07:01

Steve, I am constructing a new build home and want audio streamed into 5 rooms and 2 bathrooms (the bathrooms can be the same zones as some of the other rooms), so 5 zones is ok. I can hard wire at this stage. If I do it through airport express, I take it I need five separate Airport Express' going into the correct size amp that then feeds each zone? I can run all speaker cables back to a central point.
Or, would I be better of with Sonos? I will be having two satellite receivers that will feed three further tv's with magic eyes and will have seperate dvd players where needed.
Is it correct that if I want to play video/audio content through Apple TV, I need one unit for each TV?
Is there is anything else simple that you would add?
Many thanks
Roger

LarryB -- Mon, 10/20/2008 - 10:58

Much obliged!

Quote:Jitter issues are blown WAY out of proportion by jitter-bugs. If you have a well-designed DAC their effects will be minimized to the point where other sonic issues (like the recording qaulity of the software itself) will far outweigh jitter.

Interesting point of view. I have heard considerable sonic differences between various transports (both optical and hard-driver based) driving my Reimyo DAP-777. Would you regard this DAC as not being well-designed?

P.S. I like your term "jitter bugs"!!

Steven Stone -- Mon, 10/20/2008 - 18:15

I haven't heard your DAC, nor have I examined its circuits, so I can't comment on its jitter-sensitivity or lack of it. I often wonder if too many sonic variations from digital sources are laid at the feet of jitter. Impedance and noise through the ground can have sonic effects as well.

eeminer -- Fri, 10/31/2008 - 19:27

Steven great to see that you'll be reviewing the Sonos system. I switched from a Squeezbox setup to the Sonos a year or so ago and couldn't be happier. A couple things you might not be aware of about the Sonos: They just released a new software version 2.7 that adds some great new features , and big news is you can now use an Apple Iphone or better yet a Ipod Touch as a controller ! Also from the sonic side of things I've been using a Monarchy DIP between my zone players and DAC and found they make a very nice improvment for little $$ I also found that in some systems a glass fiber Toslink cable like the Wireworld Supernova 5+ or the Audioquest optilink 5 can outperform a good coax cable. In any case the thing I really like about Sonos over the Squeezebox stuff is that it really just works no weekly software updates, much less wonky, even my tech challenged wife can use it :-) And PS: Rick Cullen at Cullen Circuits does a mod on the ZP80/ ZP90 that is amazing maybe you could get one to try..

Steven Stone -- Sat, 11/01/2008 - 09:57

I've got the 2.7 update. Its a nice incremental improvement. My wife can now get PRI's "Marketplace" radio show anytime via the new software.

I have a Monarchy DIP that I'll try with the Sonos, as it's currently not in use elsewhere.

I contacted Rick Cullen, but he was unable to get me a unit in time to be included in the review.

eeminer -- Sat, 11/01/2008 - 17:48

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to your TAS review.

Anonymous (not verified) -- Sat, 01/03/2009 - 13:21

so far, nobody has done a good job on describing the benefits of using a mac based music server to handle both audiophile needs and just whole house audio. People tend to want to include the squeezebox or the sonos devices in setups that really don't need this extra equipment. "all" music server installs sound like crap coming straight from a computer, airport express, squeezebox, sonos, etc.. You will need to use the best external dac that you can afford or look into products like the "decco" that have a good quality dac built in. i would also stay away from using usb interface into the dac until somebody make a good quality dac that has equal quality sound from the usb port to their aes or coax ports.
as for jitter, it is not overblown at all. there is a "huge" difference in sound quality when implementing a decent jitter device between the computer/AE/squeezebox and the dac. again, no article has expanded on this improvement and most of the rmaf displays just went from a mac into the preamp or dac.
as for a nice GUI frontend to their music server, the ipod touch or the iphone do a great job on giving you an intuitive navigation into itunes on your mac and it is a free application.
also, you can build a system that beats the sooloos system in sound quality, whole house audio capabilities, functionality (try accessing email or the internet from sooloos), and sheer infrastructure setup for 1/4 the price. again, some magazines go wild over the sooloos because of its touchscreen capability. if you want to pay $10k for that piece, then by all means, but for "everything" else, why? for example, the price of adding more disk to a sooloos system costs many times the cost of adding disk to a mac. i wish that somebody who really knows how to setup a good quality mac music server would writeup the options in a magazine so others would be more informed.

rhmurray@gmail.com -- Wed, 02/25/2009 - 13:54

Hey-
LarryB, did you ever get a Sonos to use with your Reimyo? I was considering getting a Reimyo DAC and was just wondering the sonic results of this combination. Please reply if you're still following this thread.
Thanks!