newbie integrated tube amp advice
conjotter -- Thu, 04/22/2010 - 20:25
Hi folks ...
I am a newbie considering buying my first integrated tube amp, but I am having a tough time researching what is available for around $3,500 US that is well made and delivers good all-round sound.
The Prima Luna Prologue 2 and Dialogue 2 have been well reviewed, but other makes not so much. The few reviews I've read about the Mystere ia21 spend more time talking about how it looks than how it sounds, but were critical of its bass. I've listened to a few brands, but am told they will sound better after a few months. Tough to spend this kind of cash on faith.
So, what makes and models do you folks recommend and why? I listen mainly to jazz, roots, folk and some electronica and a little classic rock. I know I have to eventually trust my ears, but you tube veterans must have some thoughts on this.
Thanks in advance for the advice.
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i highly recommend the Vincent VINCENT AUDIO SV-236MKII Hybrid Integrated Amplifier, 150 watts, beautiful sound tube preamp and solid state backend, very nice and way under the $3k mark weel woth a listen
VTL and Rogue, well made and sound great. SQ-88 via Quest for Sound worth your condsideration how be it fewer features.
Hey there,
I also highly suggest the Vincent SV-236MKII hybrid. It is available from Audio Advisor for about $2,000. They have great and trustworthy customer service and all speak clear English. I considered Raysonic, but after calling them in Canada, the guy who answered did not even say, "Hello, thank you for calling Raysonic, how may I help you ?" He said, "Hello, who is this ? What you want ?" It was some guy who worked there doing whatever he does that could barely speak English, has an accent that is so thick that I could barely understand what few words he could say in English, and then he kept asking me, "You want to buy ?, You want to buy ?" Ridiculous and pathetic.
Rogue is very well built but their lower models are ugly and look like some homemade garage projects. Good luck on your wife (if applicable) approving the looks of their base series. The one from Quest for Sound is pure trash. It is low end garbage that is a lame attempt of the owner to have a small product line of his own just like he is doing by making cheap copies of certain Opera Consonance horn speakers under the QFS name. I have met the man a few times and he is not someone that I would ever give my respect or trust or money to. Period. He is also the US importer / distributor for Raysonic.
Cayin has a few good models but getting parts for their gear is a many months of waiting for them to come in process as they come from China. Ordering them is often times the same way ... wait for a back order and shipping from China for months.
Prima Luna and Mystere are both made for Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio, who also sells so much Cary Audio gear for them. I know as I worked for Cary in 2004. Despite my personal complete lack of fondness for any of these people, their equipment is good stuff. The Prima Luna is the better of the two (versus Mystere) as far as performance and reviews to back it up.
Manley offers the Stingray II. That is also sold by Upscale. Jolida is also pure trash and very cheaply and poorly made. I went to their factory in MD a few years ago and they use bottom of the barrel quality parts and they sound more muffled than a person covering his mouth while trying to sing.
Maybe see if you can find a used Audio Research VSi55 or a Jadis or Unison Research on Audiogon. Alot of it depends on what type of sound and performance you like and want. Again, the Vincent SV-236MKII would be a great one via Audio Advisor.
I own one Vincent SV-236MKII so I am biased. :p
Yet I listened to a lot of different amps and for the price you mentioned, which also were about what I intended to spend, I was not been able to find any other that lived up to my demands.
Hi,
Why don"t you give a listen at ARC vsi 60 , for midrange I think ARC is one of the best ou there..
I own them and are very pleased at their performance ( previously I owned and sold : Exposure 3010s , primaluna prologue 1 , exposure 2010s , I also still owned a naim nait 5i , which I still own but are now mainly used for secondary listening purposes)
the highs of VSI 60 are a bit rolled off , the lows are quite solid , midrange fantastic with plenty of air and a well proportioned musicians playing in a sound stage reproduction.. ( quite a lot of other amps , messed up the proportion of the players/instruments--so making the 3d image difficult to be imagined )
for my main system I use ARC ref3-limited ed. and ARC ref110 , so the vsi 60 is really in a tough position to satisfy me.
best regards,
antono
Hi folks ... Thanks for the tips. The Vincent looks very enticing but I can't seem to find a dealer in Canada that sells them. There is a distributor in Montreal, but they haven't answered my e-mail inquiries. I will try them again.
Prima Luna has a new unit out now called the Prologue Premium, which appears to be like a Dialogue 2 without the triode option. Does anyone know anything about this?
And a tube question. Is it better to get a rig with EL34 or KT88 tubes. I listen to mainly of jazz and roots music.
Regards, Conjotter
Hi conjotter!
Great questions - tube selection depends on so many variables - type of amp, circuit, speakers (efficiency and sensitivity as well as other factors come into play here as well), not to mention your own personal variables, preferences etc (such as types of music preferred, room size, layout, loudness etc).
With that said - I have just recently got into a wonderful Dynaco ST-70 rebuild done by Mr. Will Vincent - talk about awesome! This amp uses EL34 tubes. I haven't even tried anything exotic yet and I can tell you I love the sound. This amp is set-up as ultralinear so, the music doesn't sound as "tubey" or rose-tinted as some tube amps. I have never listened to KT-88s but, I cannot wait to! Hopefully someone else can chime in with their opinion/ observations on that wonderful looking tube.
Whatever you decide, chime back in and tell us about it!
Cheers
nunh
To my knowledge TAS has never reviewed B and K amps. I own a 200 watt B and K and wonder what the consensus is. I'm using with a PT 5 preamp, also B and K. My speakers are Vienna Acoustic Mozarts. I like the way my system sounds but I've had it for quite some time now and am quite used to it.. My friends are impressed when they hear it but I am the only quasi audiophile in the group. I use Kimbet Kable 8tc speaker wire and good quality Monster cable interconnects. I use balanced interconnects from ym amp to preamp. I have a modest income and a spouse who tolerates but doesn't support my hobby.
What say you?
Come to think of it, the original signal starts being measured in millivolts, and then gets enhanced by the amplifier into many watts. Since no signal is perfect when compared to the original, it stands to reason that the more you enhance it, the higher the divergence from the original signal, and the more distortion you will hear.
In fact, it has been implicitly agreed for some time now that the purest watt is the first one.
Obviously you have chosen to go to tubes for a reason, the warmth and liquidity of the sound, the instruments separation, the "air" or space between the instruments, the tonal qualities, etc. etc.
As you may know, the Vallhala in tubes are Single Ended Triode or SET tubes amps, where just one output tube per channel produces the output signal. This works best with efficient amps in the order of 1 to 30 watts per channel. There are a few flavors of SET tubes . Some people swear by the 45s, others by the 2A3s, many need more power and go for the 300b's or the 811s and then you have the king of power on the SET arena, the 845's tubes. Each has its strong points and drawbacks.
After experimenting for a few years and closing my eyes to all the hoopla out there and relying primarily on my ears and sense of space and dynamics, I finally settled on the 45s. You may want to read an excellent review of Srajan Ebaen of the Emmission Labs 45 tubes (http://6moons.com/audioreviews/EML45/45s.html). His preference of amps with these tubes are the Yamamoto and the Korneff.
These systems are very liquid and transparent, perfect for jazz music and also at home with large orchestras as in symphonies.
I own a Korneff 45 SEi (integrated amp) and currently using National Union 45s. I am quite satisfied with these tubes, but would love to get a hold of a pair of the EML 45's solid plates or mesh to compare.
I found that two well placed watts are more than plenty for my 98db efficient back loaded horns (using Fostex 206-ESR drivers) made by John Kalinowski. In fact I keep the dial at 9 AM most of the time.
Jeff Korneff's amps aren't cheap, I believe $1,800 for the amp and $2,500 for the integrated. That is without tubes, as he prefers that you experiment and find the flavor most suited to your ears, taste and budget.