Need help with audio racks
majesticgiraffe -- Wed, 06/11/2008 - 22:12
long time audiophile needs some advice on a new audio rack. I use Goldmund electronics which employ mechanical grounding within their products. They are said to work best on a mass loaded and rigid rack/platformrather than the vibration and resonance control racks that are prevalent these days. Can anyone explain this and recommend a reasonable audio rack and amp stands that will provide the best result. Thanks.
I've used rigid, mass-loaded racks for more than ten years---the Billy Bags line. You can fill them with sand. You can always add an isolation system to specific shelves later if you want.
The Billy Bags racks are well made, affordable, and their open design makes them highly functional.
I used a sand-loaded Rix Rack to great effect. Mine is made of a beautiful curly maple but the steel supports are "fillable" with sand, shot, etc.
Jim
I have recently had a Goldmund system under review (Eidos 18, Mimesis 27.3, Telos 200) and used it on a variety of racks; They do have a major influence over the sound. Of the complete racks, the best results were with a Stillpoints 4-shelf design, using their heavy bars and shelves (these were reviewed by Chris Thomas in Issue 59 of Hi-Fi Plus) but the best solution overall was achieved using the Vertex AQ Kinibalu energy sink platforms, a (relatively) low profile solution which can be used with an existing rack or a new one chosen for aesthetic rather than sonic reasons - just as long as it's solid enough as both the platforms and kit are heavy!
The sand-filled options are certainly cost effective, but ultimately less sophisticated than the Stillpoints or Vertex approach, which in my experience offer superior performance - at a price. You are definitely on the right track in looking for a rack that will ground or dissipate the energy from your electronics - it's just a question of how far you want to go. Incidentally, we'll be using both Stillpoints and Vertex pieces in our demonstrations at the RMAF, if you are planning to attend.
With the Stillpoints/Vertex 'add-on' approach, does the underlying stand matter? That is, are there any characteristics to look for or can you really just use a basic, stable (e.g. Salamander or Target) rack?
Generally speaking, all add-on supports will reduce the impact of the rack on which they sit, however, the less work they have to do the easier their job. Personally I prefer to avoid steel and particularly glass in racks (others obviously disagree). As a result, if I'm looking for a cost effective solution I tend to reach for Quadraspire or the larger footprint offered by the Cambre Core racks from Canada, but there are doubtless others out there. These two also offer a modular approach which makes both initial spacing of shelves and later changes easy to accommodate.
The Finite Element Ref rack seems to be many reviewers' favorite, or at least part of the equipment they use. How does that compare to the Stillpoints?
I'm looking to buy a good rack and after going through many bad to average ones, I hope to get it right this time, once and for all !
Once was that the finite/Stillpoints question was fairly easy to answer:
1. Take a look at the appearance of the two racks - they're VERY different.
2. Do you favour harmonic development and natural perspectives (f-e) or detail, transparency and dynamic range and definition (Stillpoints).
However, lately the waters have been muddied by significant developments at Stillpoints which make their top of the line racks considerably more expensive but also dramatically better in those areas in which they used to be weak. There is also the option of the impressive Grand Prix Audio rack, although the review of that is incomplete, as are direct comparisons.
Be honest about your needs and budget and look to the nature of your gear, and then see about hearing what these racks do. After all, you wouldn't drop five figures on a new pre-amp without listening...
Point well taken. Unfortunately, I can't get a home demo of a rack - which is what I do with practically every piece of gear, cartridge excluded. I'm not even sure I can get hold of a Stillpoints here.
Equipment going in will be ARC Ref 7, EMM trasport/DAC6e, ASR Basis and VPI SSM on top. I'd like all the adjectives you describe - the system has the lot :)
Can I presume from your initial comment that the Finite used to be the way to go?
I've used - and use - both racks extensively. The finite is a great, well balanced performer, especially if you use the Cerabase feet with it. But the latest Stillpoints are my current favourites, not least because they're layered approach allows you to go on adding extra isolation as time goes by or where it's most effective. Will I be retiring the finite racks? No way. Would I be happy to use just them? Absolutely. But for optimum results the Stillpoints deliver with the ARC CD7 and the EMM, and also with around 70% of other units I try. Both are great racks (as are the GPAs) but the top of the line Stillpoints with the latest isolation technology is currently ahead by a nose as far as this listener is concerned.
However, for once you have three options all of which are good and you will be very happy with any of these solutions.
After conculting many sources it was determined that Goldmund equipment because of their mechanical grounding preferred mass damping versus acoustical isolation. With that in mind I purchased a Sound Anchors custom made 5 level rack. I explained my needs to Bob at Sound Anchors and he custom designed a rack. I was told 4 - 6 weeks but it was more like 8 weeks. The rack came via motor freight and it was incredibly well packed and anchored on a small pallet. The freight from FL to CA was reasonable at $225 and the rack was around $1600.
I loaded all the Goldmund equipment and was happy with the fit and finsh. It allowed ample room fro ventilation. I noticed the sound of the system to have more low level resolution and more palpability in the lower end. The timing and pace was well relaxed yet 'rock solid". The rack came prefilled with a material similar to sand/shot.
I have been very happy with the rack and am glad I did not spend $5000+ for a Grand Prix or Finite Element. These racks were actually opposite to the effect Goldmund requests because their components are already mechanically grounded. With other equipment that deisre and needs mechanical isolation I imagine the Grand prix and Finite would be great.
I also added a pair of Shakti hallographs to the system and that was the ultrmate upgrade. The system took on incredible new realism and the low level palpability was incredible. The music was so relaxed and the textures and tones were so lifelike. I no longer desire any more upgrades (except for perhaps a center pair of hallographs). I took the Hallographs out and did not like it without. There was more congestion and less space between images. I tried the Hallographs in 3 positions and settled with them at the rear corners.
It was like I had upgraded two levels on speaker cables.
Thanks for all the ideas on this forum. It is great to have a resource from audiophiles because yes it is impossible to audition racks and cartridges at home.
Does a hard disk based system need as much care in isolation and antivibration as other audio components like tubed stuff, cd players, turntables? I use a DAC and plan to use hard disk music via music server. suggestions welcome.
A hard disk system will need as much, if not more isolation, both mechanical and electrical, from the rest of your components. Hard disks generate a lot of physical vibration and computers are often the source of EMI, RF, and AC noise.
You can solve the HD vibration problem by substituting a silicon-based storage system for the rotating HD, but the electrical isolation will require careful consideration.
You may get better sonic performance by wireless streaming than actual physical connection or you may find that Toslink will be the only digital connection that supplies enough galvanic isolation to avoid grounding issues between the computer and the rest of your system. Coaxial digital connection, despite some limited evidence that it sounds better than USB or Toslink may not be your best sonic choice. Every system is different, with different software and hardware that handles digital music files in various ways and you can't assume one connection methodology is universally better.
And, yes, mass loading of the conventional HD drive will probably be needed.
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
I was thinking of a component shaped music server chases to place in the rack and to connect to the DAC in the rack. My digital cable is only 2meter. So cant keep it too far away from the DAC. Some have suggested keeping it in a different room. Are the new servers solid state or hard disk moving parts? I hear these two talked about interchangebly. I wonder what type of storage device qsonix or sooloos has in its chasis. What do you mean by a silicon based storage system? any website on that for more reading? brands? I was just thinking of putting an isolation system under the chasis like symposium, or bright star air base of some kind. and keep the touchscreen or remote near listening chair. A PC as a music server would surely be noisy in the room. Ive also heard contrary to what you say in terms of digital connection, that AES/EBU is best, spdif second best and USB or Toslink as the worse type of connections for high end audio. May be its system based. I am not sure. The other thing I don't understand is how come these state of art $7-10K music servers only offer one spdif out and NO AES/EBU, NO toslink, NO usb. If music servers are as much pain as isolating a turntable.........then its not going to be too much fun.
Servers can use either solid state or hard disk for storage - the newest Solid state or silicon-based drives are plug-compatible with HDs.
QSonix and Soolos should be able to take either type of storage (but silicon-based cost more and have smaller capacity)
As far as the digital connection is concerned it is really and truly system dependent. Some experts will tell you that one connection type is inherently better, but they may be right for the limited number of systems they have tested, but there simply is no universally better connection method. every system requires testing to see which is better. Some servers make this easier by only supplying limited options.
As for the process not being fun - you're introducing a computer into your audio system - of course its going to be fun :)!
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
Those who have bought some moderate level of audiophile racks, what brands or models have you used? In my research most of the high end racks seem like on average they cost $5000+. They look very pretty and technological, but the prices are rediculously high. I am looking for a 5 to 6 shelf rack to also place analog gear as well therefore isolation and stability is important, but even some of the gear on the rack wont cost as much as the asking price of the racks that I have come across. suggestions and pictures welcome.
I like the custom designed racks by Sound Anchor in Florida. They are mass loaded. A six shelf rack with freight to California was about $1800 a year ago. It takes about 6 weeks for the rack to be be built and delivered.The fit and finish is very nice and it comes very well packed via motor freight. I am glad I purchased it and it helped my system with better low level resolution. Increased quietness and a tightening of the bass.
Solid Steel 4 shelf racks have served me very well. But, then, I came from Salamander racks which were scary wobbly. The SS are the vibration/isolation type and are very good at it using a shelf with 3 conical points in small recepticles set in a steel frame. Very reasonably priced.
Jack D II
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