MM vs. MC differences at <$1k price point
bobboyer -- Thu, 01/22/2009 - 21:16
I'm looking into a replacement for my 8-10 year old Talisman Alchemist IA high-output MC cartridge and am considering three or four units in the sub $1K price range. I'm open to suggestions, as there are a half dozen excellent cartridges in the $650 - $1000 price range, but I'm tremendously curious in what folks think the newest MM designs bring to the table.
So for the sake of discussion, for those who have heard both cartridges, what might I expect from the new Ortofon 2M Black as opposed to the Sumiko Blackbird, which seems to me to be the logical update to my Alchemist. Unfortunately, I won't have the ability to audition either cartridge, so I'm going to have to rely on some descriptions to guide my decision. Both appear to be highly thought of by those who have reviewed them, though the Ortofon has been getting more attention of late.
FWIW, I'm currently using an Exposure 2010S with Exposure's phono card which seems to be quite amenable to the Alchemist. The other piece of the puzzle is that the cartridge will be hung from an SME 309 tonearm.
Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I have not heard the new Ortofon 2M Black but Neil Gader just reviewed it in TAS (Jan '09 issue).
Some carts besides the Sumiko Blackbird to consider are:
---the Clearaudio Maestro (moving magnet, plenty of gain, big bold sound, etc. I think it's the best of the Clearaudio moving magnets
---Koetsu Black (at $1600, it's over your budget, but you can listen to it for hours without any aural fatigue, beautiful timbre on massed strings, a midrange to die for, great on voice, etc.)
---Shelter 501: Chris Martens loves this one. I haven't heard it yet, but I'd definitely check it out.
---I was impressed with the VOICE from Soundsmiths. At $2,200 it's way over your budget, but you might check out some of his moving magnets closer to your budget. Peter can also rebuild/re-tip your Talismann.
Good luck!
Thanks, Jim. That's a good lead on gettig the talisman retipped as there's really nothing wrong with it that I know of; I'm just guessing I'm getting to the end of the stylus' useful life.
Maybe I just need to go listen in Atlanta, but I don't even know if there are any dealers there who would actually stock a range of cartridges.
I'll check with Soundsmith first.
Bob
Bob,
There are other places that do retipping, too. AJ van den Hul does re-tipping and there is a minimum charge of $300 (pricing varies depending on cartridge). I had him re-tip a Kiseki Purple Heart Sapphire and was very happy with the results. The Cartridge Man also does re-tips (and re-builds, I believe) and I've heard Benz does, too. The Garrot Brothers in Australia did, too, and I believe somebody at their shop still does since their passing.
The easiest thing is to call Peter at Soundsmith and ask him what he thinks about re-tipping your Talisman.
As for listening to a range of cartridges in the Atlanta area, I would call a couple of high-end dealers and ask them what you can audition. Another approach is to call Musical Surroundings (the distributor for Clearaudio and Benz cartridges) or Axiss (Shelter carts) and ask them who their dealers are in the Atlanta area and whether they have cartridges available for audition. It would be great if you could report back your findings.
Good luck!
Jim
Bob,
You might also check out the Benz Micro Glider ($1000) that I reviewed in Issue 191. True, it's a MC but with 0.8mV it was easy to power and plenty quiet as well. Not as warm as the Clearaudio Maestro, it is a bit faster and more detailed but only just. The Ortofon is typically a bit whiter on top, very detailed but cooler overall. Naturally the Glider will need a step up device. The Maestro and 2M Black will not.
Neil Gader Associate Editor The Absolute Sound
Neil,
How would you compare the new Benz Glider S to the Shelter 501?I own the Pass int 150 which I purchased after reading your review.I am thrilled with it's
performance.Which of of these cartridges might have better synergy with the Pass int 150?My table is Scoutmaster.
Thanks, Drew
I dont know how it would work in your system, but my Dynavector 17D3 is really great. Also reviewed in TAS. $900.00.
My first MC was a high output Benz Glider and ever since then Ive been a committed MC man. I hve'nt heard alot of MMs since then and I dont really want to. The Glider will give an idea just how good an MC can be. Make sure you get a high output one (2.5mv) if you want to run it through a MM phono stage as I did.
There is also the high output Benz-Micro Glider S (H) 2.5V that one does need a step-up transformer, also at $1,000
Peder Beckman
Director of Sales
Musical Surroundings
www.musicalsurroundings.com
What changes are in the Glider S vs. the previous Glider?
Jim, Different stylus, the Glider S is using a Geiger S stylus which is superior sounding compared with the older Glider.
Peder Beckman
Kool Kat Jazz Records
www.koolkatjazz.com
To bring this thread back from the grave with an update, I now have a Denon DL-304 being shipped to me which I will update my impressions of as soon as I have a listen. How did I go from comparing sub-$1k high-output moving coils to moving magnets to purchasing a low-output moving coil cartridge? And how come it took so long?
What a long, strange trip it's been...
But before I get into the details of this little oddysey, let me say up front that I cannot recommend Acoustic Sounds and, in particular, their equipment wrangler, Chad Stelly, more highly for customer service waay above and beyond the call. They have been behind me every step of the way. They've also sold me a bunch more equipment as a result. (Any manufacturers/dealers out there listening?)
As noted in a post above, I decided to pursue having SoundSmith rebuild my Alchemist. Due, I'm sure, to Peter's illness earlier this year, the backlog of work probably became quite high, resulting in about a 6 month turnaround on the upgrade work I was having done. Fair enough. When the cartridge arrived, I reinstalled it and set about to break things in and listen on the same system from which it came (VPI table/SME 309 arm/Exposure 2010s amp with MM phono card). I immediately noticed a more refined treble, tighter bass: everything I was expecting. I also noticed I had to turn up the volume knob another 25% or so. Where I'd been listening with the volume set between 9 and 10 pm, I was now listening between 12 and 1 am on the knob for the volume level I had been getting prior to the rebuild. While it wasn't what I expected, there seemed to be no issues so kept listening and enjoying. A couple of weeks in as I was getting ready to play another record, I heard a sizzle in the right speaker. Bass from the phono section was instantly nonexistent. Line stage sounded okay.
Enter, Acoustic Sounds, stage left.
Thinking there was a problem with the phono stage - and with the amp still under warranty, I sent it back for inspection/repair. Not the phono stage. A couple of resistors in a speaker protection circuit (if I get this correctly) were blown as a result of some high frequency oscillations they encountered. Though Exposure didn't consider that to be a warranty-related repair, the cost wasn't too much, so $120 later, back came the repaired amp. I wasn't tremendously happy about that, but it is what it is and I pick my battles these days.
During this repair hiatus, I called Sound Smith to inquire about what might have changed in the cartridge rebuild that could cause this behavior. Mind you, I was just looking at all alternatives from bad parts in the amp to something related to the cartridge rebuild that could cause interaction problems. Didn't accuse anyone of anything but noted that prior to the rebuild, the cartridge and amp had been getting along fine. Unfortunately, the conversation went downhill pretty quickly. Apparently, Peter's 40 plus years of experience trumped any issues I was having, and my 35 plus years of listening experience as well. I decided rather than argue, I'd take the man at his word and reported the conversation back to Chad. We considered the possibility of a bad phono cable, given that I was working on the original cable that came with the arm. New AudioQuest Cougar purchased, shipped in and installed. When the amp got back to me, I reinstalled everything only to hear a loud pop within a minute of turning on the amp, followed by a rapid increase in the hiss level from the phono section. Turning everything off and waiting a minute or two, I found the amp sounded okay and the hiss had gone back to normal levels but was quickly returning. Switch off amp, replace AudioQuest phono cable with original SME cable, wash, rinse, repeat. Same results.
Called Acoustic Sounds back and basically told Chad I'd had it. I would buy a new Phonomena II phono preamp (love it, BTW) if he'd send it along with a replacement 2010s as I wasn't confident in the original unit. No questions other than a discussion of our mutual puzzlement, no argument, just a couple of amps showing up two days later. To say I'm impressed is an understatement. Plugged in new phono cable to new preamp to new amp. Played with loading and output gain switches on back panel of preamp to get a good volume match and the cartridge sounding right. Glorious sound. We're rockin' now. Come back a little later and start to listen again. Right channel has no volume. Switch cable, left channel has no volume. Switch cable back again, both channels loud and clear. And more glorious sound. Listen to one side of record. Flip record, try again. No sound in right channel. Lift ground, no love. Replace ground, both channels back. Cable issues? Replace new AudioQuest with old SME. Same results. Grounding issue in preamp? Call Acoustic Sounds, Chad sends second preamp just to be sure, again, with no argument. It arrives yesterday. Same behavior.
Out of sheer desperation last night, I located a really worn out disc and a beat up AT cartridge from a hundred years ago and installed it. Both channels perfect in both preamps with both cables. Huh...
it was the rebuilt cartridge all along.
I called this morning and asked Chad to sell me a new cartridge. Like I said, I've learned to pick my battles and as irritated as I am at the situation, I'd rather reward someone who's been there with insight and empathy, not to mention a chest full of toys, for helping me through this situation.
So thanks again to Acoustic Sounds. I've not encountered a more stand-up business. Ever. While I try to live by the concept of buying local (and still do as possible) I will say without equivocation that if you're without a dealer in your location, or if you're unimpressed with your local folks, you won't do any better than to deal with these folks. Chad Kassem & company run a great business.
I'll let you know what I think of a new Denon MC cartridge next week, but Chad hasn't steered me wrong yet. I'm expecting great things.
I'm sure you'll be/have been talking with Sound Smith, so please, let us know how this turns out.
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