MAGNEPAN 1.7s

NEWBEE60 -- Sat, 04/10/2010 - 15:17

 HAVE YAMAHA 2700 AV RECIEVER AND A CERWIN VEGA  12'' SUB. WANT TO MATCH WITH MAGNEPAN 1.7s.HAD MMGs.
THE SOUND WAS GOOD, UNLIKE ANYTHING I HAD HEARD BEFORE BUT I WANT MORE BODY,FULLNESS. THE SOUND WAS LIKE I WAS IN THE BALCONY BUT CLOSE UP. ANY SUGGESTIONS

Kabir (not verified) -- Tue, 04/13/2010 - 02:20

I have MMGs in my bedroom & 1.6s (highly modified) in the main listening room. (I also ordered a pair of 1.7s after listening to them.) The 1.6s go deeper than the MMGs, and the 1.7s are as good on the bottom end as the 1.6s if not better. SO you may NOT need a sub, which would be good news. The hardest thing I have ever had to do is to match a sub with the Maggies. It is nearly impossible to find one that is as fast as the Maggies or as clear. Most of them destroy the high resolution Maggie sound. I finally settled on a pair of Velodyne's DD-10s at 40 Hz crossover point with my MMGs. This is the smallest of the DD series and was actually a much better match/better sounding than the bigger DDs because the DD-10 with its 10” carbon fiber cone had the lowest mass therefore the fastest response (and the DDs have very low distortion).

NOW, your CV sub will absolutely WASTE what the 1.7s are capable of! (In fact it was mucking up the MMGs but you probably weren't aware of it, in the CONTEXT OF YOUR SYSTEM.) I would definitely find a way to maximize the bottom end thru placement AND THEN try to match it with a fast sub using a very low crossover point. The Maggies can give you great bass IF you find the right location for them. This takes some T & E (trial & error). Also IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR CURRENT SYSTEM, you will again waste what the 1.7s are capable of because of the equipment upstream. In fact it’s a good guess that you were not realizing what the MMGs are capable of. If you are thinking of buying a pair of 1.7s now with plans to build/upgrade you ENTIRE system around them, then great. You are off to a fantastic start! But on the other hand if you have limited budget and you are thinking that the 1.7s alone will give you better sound then think again.

ALL Maggies from the smallest to the largest require the best equipment upstream, especially high current amplifiers and wires. High current amplification is crucial to getting good bass out of the Maggies. I use 300 watt mon-blocks on my MMGs and the bass slam is astonishing. AND don’t forget good sources. That thinness that you were experiencing could very well be your Yamaha receiver and/or poor wires. Since Maggies have very high resolution they respond to minute changes upstream. I have heard different wires change the way they sound. This is why in both of my systems the Maggies are the least expensive pieces. The wires alone are more expensive than the speakers. If you have limited budget you might find spending the money upstream such will give you significantly better sound than buying a new pair of Maggies. You will be amazed at what the MMGs can do if you provide quality ahead of them. And if you just want more full bodied bass then buy a used pair of 1.6s (around $900) and put the savings upstream. (Or buy a better sub.) The Magneplanars in their respective price points NEED serious equipment/wires to show off their potential. This is the one aspect of Maggies that I cannot stress enough.

NEWBEE60 -- Tue, 04/13/2010 - 09:53

THANK YOU FOR YOUR IMPUT KABIR I HAVE AUDIOQUEST G2 SPEAKER WIRE. I HAVE NOT HEARD THE 1.6s YET BUT WILL DO SO SOON.THE DEALER IN TAMPA TOLD ME THAT MY YAMAHA WOULD BE ALLRIGHT.I SEE THAT I NEED TO THINK ABOUT A POWER AMP.

Kabir (not verified) -- Thu, 04/15/2010 - 09:55

Yes do think about a power amp. This dealer who is telling you that your "Yamaha receiver would be alright" with the 1.7s is either inexperienced with Maggies or is desperate to make a sale. I have owned several pairs of Maggies over a period of over 25 years, been an Audio Consultant/Dealer, mated many an amps and some receivers with Maggies, and I can tell you with absolute certainty: Get a good high current amp for your Maggies!

This is the single most important thing necessary TO HEAR THE FULL POTENTIAL of these speakers. There is a huge difference between a receiver that is RATED at 200 watts @ 8 ohm built with a weak power supply versus an amp that is rated at 100 watts @ 8 ohm but can dump 50 amperes of current into a 2 ohm load because of a beefier power supply. That 100 watt amp will play louder & rock when it comes to bass performance. Current output at lower impedances is crucial to good bass performance. The second is good placement. This is mind numbingly tedious with Maggies but with huge rewards if done right. Glotz below has given you excellent & accurate directions, especially the part about symmetry being crucial to the millimeter. (However if your room and/or placement is not symmetrical then your toe-ins may not be symmetrical to get that focused center image.)

I had tried different AudioQuest speaker wires with Maggies (though not the G2), they invariably sounded bright/edgy and/or thin in the bass. I have had good luck with JPS LABS wires since they are very neutral & make the Maggies come alive dynamically with good synergy.

Glotz (not verified) -- Tue, 04/13/2010 - 12:46

If you want better depth, your amp is the biggest culprit; but spread the speakers out more (without getting too close to the side walls), and toe them in 6" on the parallel plane to each other. Sit so that the tweeters on the outside are just intersecting past your ears by 2" to 6" max... and listen... But make sure the speakers are correctly aligned to each other, even if the placement in the room relative to walls are not symmetrical. Just give yourself more spread for width and toe for depth. And replace the amp and sub asap. Or at least try fine tuning the sub for the least intrusive sound, probably by turning the gain on the sub way down.

Another important thing about ANY Maggie is set up. Vertical and Horizontal plane interaction between the left and the right speaker must be utterly symmetrical to the centimeter.. and really to the milimeter! Measure everything and get it equal first, then move around in controlled increments. Wide spikes installed with Gorilla glue and rubber pads to the stand/feet will do huge improvements to the bass and overall vibrational behavior. Check out Parts Express, as they have the 'Dayton Audio" cone spikes, and their prices are 1/2 of everyone else. Using the spikes directly into hardwood is great for a fuller, more ballsy sound (as it mates the speaker to the floor and room), and is the way to go when you are suffering from a warmth issue. Using the metal padded cups they come with will do much the opposite, but try it anyways for reference- it could help your room node or position.

Lastly, just that- try larger increments of positioning to find out where your bass is being cancelled out by the MMG's... Dipolar speakers always have some bass cancellation- part of the design. Ironically moving them out from the walls corrects some of this, but the relative nodes to your room (bass humps or different performance in one position to the next even a few inches from each other) can really tell you where the best spot is. Listen for the two speakers singing as one, and the central image completely stable and directly in the middle with no side channel bleed. Then work on the vertical plane... the front part of the stands about 1mm to 1cm over the back (a smidge) is about right for the most open treble and midrange and the best depth. Too much, and the coherence is gone. Again, your floor is the most important aspect, as any older house will settle and flex and usually near the walls the most. The best approach for the vertical plane is to NOT use the supplied white bushings, and use some adjustable spikes as mentioned above. Mye stands are great, but do the required homework first, and save $600 plus to start.

Figure out what you have before what you need!

I really would love is TAS (Mr. Valin more specifically) would review the 1.7's with a direct comparision to the 1.6's, if possible. I think its the best way to get at the improvements over the 1.6. I already own new 1.6's and need to really justify a trip to Chicago, just to audition them (1.7's).

Kabir (not verified) -- Thu, 04/15/2010 - 10:18

I think Valin is doing just that. His first take is here: http://www.avguide.com/blog/magneplanar-17-first-listen

Glotz (not verified) -- Tue, 04/13/2010 - 12:46

If you want better depth, your amp is the biggest culprit; but spread the speakers out more (without getting too close to the side walls), and toe them in 6" on the parallel plane to each other. Sit so that the tweeters on the outside are just intersecting past your ears by 2" to 6" max... and listen... But make sure the speakers are correctly aligned to each other, even if the placement in the room relative to walls are not symmetrical. Just give yourself more spread for width and toe for depth. And replace the amp and sub asap. Or at least try fine tuning the sub for the least intrusive sound, probably by turning the gain on the sub way down.

Another important thing about ANY Maggie is set up. Vertical and Horizontal plane interaction between the left and the right speaker must be utterly symmetrical to the centimeter.. and really to the milimeter! Measure everything and get it equal first, then move around in controlled increments. Wide spikes installed with Gorilla glue and rubber pads to the stand/feet will do huge improvements to the bass and overall vibrational behavior. Check out Parts Express, as they have the 'Dayton Audio" cone spikes, and their prices are 1/2 of everyone else. Using the spikes directly into hardwood is great for a fuller, more ballsy sound (as it mates the speaker to the floor and room), and is the way to go when you are suffering from a warmth issue. Using the metal padded cups they come with will do much the opposite, but try it anyways for reference- it could help your room node or position.

Lastly, just that- try larger increments of positioning to find out where your bass is being cancelled out by the MMG's... Dipolar speakers always have some bass cancellation- part of the design. Ironically moving them out from the walls corrects some of this, but the relative nodes to your room (bass humps or different performance in one position to the next even a few inches from each other) can really tell you where the best spot is. Listen for the two speakers singing as one, and the central image completely stable and directly in the middle with no side channel bleed. Then work on the vertical plane... the front part of the stands about 1mm to 1cm over the back (a smidge) is about right for the most open treble and midrange and the best depth. Too much, and the coherence is gone. Again, your floor is the most important aspect, as any older house will settle and flex and usually near the walls the most. The best approach for the vertical plane is to NOT use the supplied white bushings, and use some adjustable spikes as mentioned above. Mye stands are great, but do the required homework first, and save $600 plus to start.

Figure out what you have before what you need!

I really would love is TAS (Mr. Valin more specifically) would review the 1.7's with a direct comparision to the 1.6's, if possible. I think its the best way to get at the improvements over the 1.6. I already own new 1.6's and need to really justify a trip to Chicago, just to audition them (1.7's).

NEWBEE60 -- Wed, 04/14/2010 - 08:11

THANK YOU GLOTZ GOOD INFO. I DON'T HAVE MMGs NOW.IM GOING TO BE STARTING ALL OVER,THE QUESTION IS THE 1.6s OR 1.7s.THE CLOSES DEALERS 2hrs AWAY.THE TAMPA DEALER JUST HAD THE 1.7s UP TO HEAR AFTER BEING TOLD THEY GOT 1.6,1.7,3.6. IF THEY SOUND VERY CLOSE I CAN GET 1.6s AND SPEND FOR A AMP/BRYSTON 14SSTs.

Kabir (not verified) -- Thu, 04/15/2010 - 10:28

Good luck, do let us know how it went. Great amp choice btw! Brystons have good synergy with Maggies.

gb -- Thu, 04/15/2010 - 12:30

Newbee:
It is generally easier to read a post that is not all caps, which is why you so seldom see it. The eye can more fluidly follow the content. You might get more responses if you use that format, as most users consider all caps to be "shouting."

gb -- Thu, 04/15/2010 - 12:30

Newbee:
It is generally easier to read a post that is not all caps, which is why you so seldom see it. The eye can more fluidly follow the content. You might get more responses if you use that format, as most users consider all caps to be "shouting."

NEWBEE60 -- Thu, 04/15/2010 - 14:21

I am not that good at typing, but never ment to offend any one. thanks for info.

dawsonblah (not verified) -- Sat, 04/17/2010 - 10:23

The 1.7s are now mine! Muhahaha
Just got back from a 10 hour roadtrip to pick them up, still tweaking the final position, but they sound utterly fantastic!

front of the "chamber":
s142.photobucket.com/albums/r117/dawsonblah/?action=view&current=front.jpg

back of the room:
s142.photobucket.com/albums/r117/dawsonblah/?action=view&current=rear.jpg

mykezm3 -- Tue, 06/15/2010 - 17:41

hi all i am new here,as well as the audio/home theater world. i just puchased a few items and was just wondering on your overall experience with the 1.7 speaker placement. is it better to have the tweeters on the inside or outside? what'changes with the sound ? i also purchased a pioneer elite sc-27 reciever. jl audio f12 sub and an emotiva xpa-5 amp,any thoughts on how these pieces will work together?. thank you.

NEWBEE60 -- Thu, 06/17/2010 - 18:15

Hi mykezm3,
Just wanted to congratulate you on your new purchase of magnepan 1.7s. I heard them again today at the Jacksonville dealer. Its a long wait for a pair so I bought there last pair of 1.6s. And Im please for now but will be glad when i can get apair of monoblocks and pre amp from Bryston or Parasound.I know im missing alot using my yamaha AV2700. You need good equipment in running maggies. I did not have a problem with placement.The booklet was pretty good on how to do it so i went at it. The main thing is you have to be happy with what got at the end.Thats with what you are hearing,what sounds good to me you might not think so.

mykezm3 -- Thu, 06/17/2010 - 21:11

thanks i was lucky and only had to wait 3 weeks for mine,and that seemed long.

David C -- Sat, 06/19/2010 - 23:24

NEWBEE60
Great advice from the others here.
Over the last 25 years I have personally owned Maggies as well as sold hundreds of pairs as a dealer. ( I am out of the business now) The 1.6 is a classic!  Anybody in the business (that's been around and knows what they are talking about) knows about the 1.6.  Many have ask " Is this the best bang for the buck audiophile speaker of all time ?". Ok I am biased. But it's true. The 1.7 is an overdue refinement and facelift to an incredible speaker. If one can't wait for the 1.7's and instead gets a deal on a pair of 1.6's ... that is a win. If you have not noticed, Maggies are  almost never discounted. They just don't have the markup of most speaker lines. I 100% agree with the amplifier recomendations and considerations.  The difference to listening to any speaker in a store vs in your home is huge. For a lot of reasons. But, If you are a LISTENER the Maggies will blow you away given enough power/current. I would always recommend starting with NO sub woofer. Get to know your new speakers. Granted your powered sub will help compensate for a lame amplifier  but then what you have is a  conspiracy against the Maggies. In any event go easy on the Yamaha until you upgrade.  No sense hurting either the Yamaha or the Maggies. Besides, one of the greatest joys of building a system is that you get hear the improvement or difference each component makes. Unfortunately you never got to hear your MMG's at their best, but you are on the right track now.

mykezm3.....the tweeters almost always sound better on the outside. However sometimes do to side wall room reflections they will sound better focused on the inside. Try both. You will generally hands down like one over the other. Swap them again after 30 days and you will know for sure.
 

NEWBEE60 -- Sun, 06/20/2010 - 20:33

Thank you David C
Your advice is taken with great thanks. Being new to this I plan to enjoy each step of the way building my system. And I will welcome all the great advice from people like you along the way.

NEWBEE60 -- Wed, 11/03/2010 - 09:54

I thought it was time to give a update on my system building.The info I got was right on point. I have magnepan 1.6s and Emotiva USP-1 preamp,XPA-2 amp. At first I could not get much sound from my system and it was driving me crazy.I was ready to send it back Emotiva.My problem was bad source (im learning) I had connected my TV to my preamp using a mini plug to rca plug to get pandora. The signal was very weak and I had to turn up the volume past 12 high to make it sound like something,but not great. My cd/dvd player sounded much better.So I bought a new samsung player that has pandora and good sound with a better connection for my preamp.Big change in sound quality,changed speaker wire from 16 to 10 gauge and Biwired my 1.6s. Im very pleased with my system at this point. Must get rid of my cv sub, it lags on some of my music choices. When my pockets get more cash I will be able to step up step in systems.Thanks again for great advice.

David C -- Thu, 11/04/2010 - 09:41

dbl entry

David C -- Wed, 11/03/2010 - 19:20

Newbee60
Way to go!  Sounds like you are off and running. It is amazing the differences one can hear as a result of the smallest changes once you become a "listener. Also, most people are surprised when they have that "ah-ha moment" when they finally get it... space, depth, air, etc. All those phrases audiophiles use to describe there experiences.  As good as the best receivers are today they just don't compair to good separates.
On that note...I had to make some changes to my primary system as a result of a Krell amp failure which was powering my 1.6's. Back to a surround receiver  temporarily (a current model which retails for more than 2k)  I hate to sound like an audio snob but I couldn't  listen to music and television irritated the heck out of me.  I had to do something! So, I broke down a secondary system and hooked up an Antthem 225 integrated amp. to the 1.6's. Now I am back in business. I admit I was slow to switch to surround sound and generally  prefer stereo when listening to music.  Here is the point... I do not miss the CC3 center channel at all!  If you take the time to place the Maggies you will swear the center channel is playing. In fact , I often ask guests how they like the sound of the center channel speaker. They are shocked when they walk up to the center to verify it's not playing. Good Old Stereo! Now I admit movies are not as entertaining in stereo but they "ain't bad neither". I have always said when ask for advice that I would rather have a $1000 - $2000 pair of speakers than a $1000- $2000 surround sound speaker system. One is world class the other is entry level.
Looks like I have a buyer for my 1.6's. I'll be ordering a pair of 1.7's soon.  I could live with the 1.6's forever but I'm happy to help a friend get into them and he helps me aquire the latest and greatest. Maggies forever!
It was nice to read your update.
David C
 
 

David C -- Wed, 11/03/2010 - 19:21

Newbee60
Way to go!  Sounds like you are off and running. It is amazing the differences one can hear as a result of the smallest changes once you become a "listener. Also, most people are surprised when they have that "ah-ha moment" when they finally get it... space, depth, air, etc. All those phrases audiophiles use to describe there experiences.  As good as the best receivers are today they just don't compair to good separates.
On that note...I had to make some changes to my primary system as a result of a Krell amp failure which was powering my 1.6's. Back to a surround receiver  temporarily (a current model which retails for more than 2k)  I hate to sound like an audio snob but I couldn't  listen to music and television irritated the heck out of me.  I had to do something! So, I broke down a secondary system and hooked up an Antthem 225 integrated amp. to the 1.6's. Now I am back in business. I admit I was slow to switch to surround sound and generally  prefer stereo when listening to music.  Here is the point... I do not miss the CC3 center channel at all!  If you take the time to place the Maggies you will swear the center channel is playing. In fact , I often ask guests how they like the sound of the center channel speaker. They are shocked when they walk up to the center to verify it's not playing. Good Old Stereo! Now I admit movies are not as entertaining in stereo but they "ain't bad neither". I have always said when ask for advice that I would rather have a $1000 - $2000 pair of speakers than a $1000- $2000 surround sound speaker system. One is world class the other is entry level.
Looks like I have a buyer for my 1.6's. I'll be ordering a pair of 1.7's soon.  I could live with the 1.6's forever but I'm happy to help a friend get into them and he helps me aquire the latest and greatest. Maggies forever!
It was nice to read your update.
David C
 
 

NEWBEE60 -- Wed, 11/03/2010 - 22:18

The idea of having a secondary system is a good one. At the time I needed to sell my yamaha reciever to help defray the cost of a new system.I have been looking at getting another XPA-2 amp to biamp instead of biwireing. Emotiva is running a sale at this time. Not sure wether it would be a good move. My wife sits down now and claims shes hearing things,I half to tell her its the sound system. It would give me 1000wps instead of 500watts per speaker.Secondary system you got me thinking. Thank again

David C -- Thu, 11/04/2010 - 10:12

Newbee60
Others may disagree, but to me, biamping isn't the best bang for the buck. Limited benefit to expense. If ones primary amp is week or clipping frequently one may have reason to biamp. On average very little power is needed to drive the tweeter section, bass is where it's at. The signal coming out of the pre-amp is not "tweeter & woofer" it's Left and Right. Both amps receive the exact same signal. Things don't change until the signal reaches the xover (other than possible problems created by sending the signal thru two different amps). To me dual mono or a larger primary amp make more sense. If I were in your shoes I would put that money towards a very good sub. When your system is complete and you have lived with it for awhile then readdress your amplifier needs.

David

David C -- Thu, 11/04/2010 - 10:12

Newbee60
Others may disagree, but to me, biamping isn't the best bang for the buck. Limited benefit to expense. If ones primary amp is week or clipping frequently one may have reason to biamp. On average very little power is needed to drive the tweeter section, bass is where it's at. The signal coming out of the pre-amp is not "tweeter & woofer" it's Left and Right. Both amps receive the exact same signal. Things don't change until the signal reaches the xover (other than possible problems created by sending the signal thru two different amps). To me dual mono or a larger primary amp make more sense. If I were in your shoes I would put that money towards a very good sub. When your system is complete and you have lived with it for awhile then readdress your amplifier needs.

David

NEWBEE60 -- Thu, 11/04/2010 - 20:54

I have never biamp or heard a biamp system so I can't speak on it as knowing. But your advice is well taken I need a good sub. What do you think of the Revel B120 or Titan XL?

Half Full -- Thu, 06/14/2012 - 21:21

Guys, I am old and probably mostly deaf.  I became fascinated with the sound of dipoles when I heard a pair of Bertagni's in 1976.  As something of a tinkerer I have been trying to recreate that sense of "being there" ever since. That is what led me to Magnepan.  At that time in Berlin (by the way, I have spent time in Dieter Burmester's living room) we did not have Maggies available to us.  I have sawed the corner off of my dining room table while attempting to build something that sounded like real people playing real instruments in my house.  In 1980 I first listened to a pair of MG1's and was blown away by the immediacy of the presentation.  I think that all box speakers, while perhaps being true to the amplititude and linearity of the signal, miss the initial burst of sound that creates the "I am there" impression. It's almost as if the first cycle is missing and no matter what the impact or power of the soundstage there is always something lacking in believeability.  Ten years ago I bought a pair of 1.6's and was never happy with the way they sounded until I bought Jim Smith's book and fixed all the funky stuff I had forgotten was important.  I rewired the 120 volt line, making it dedicated, and took the time to get the polarities correct.  I measured the distances and recorded my observations until "Holy Mollie!" I was there!  My references were Jennifer Warnes, Diane Shur, and Lyle Lovett.  I discovered, and believe, that if you get the vocals right then all else will be right as well.
I have observed these threads for years with great amusement and enjoyment but was never willing to voice an opinion for fear of rebuttal.  My problem is that as soon as I was completely satisfied with the sound of my system, I wanted to upgrade.  Now I have the 1.6's packed in the box they came in and have installed a pair of 3.6's I bought on eBay at a great deal...  But I can't find the sweet spot.  I have moved them around in the the 2 foot or so space in which they have to live and no position is completely satisfying.  I can get depth of image but I loose the midbass.  Changing the toe-in focuses the voices but loses the expansive soundstage that I cherish.  Playing them straight on makes the lower treble too hash and exaggerates the sibilants. 
I can't go back now.  My wife of 40 years even likes the looks of the 3.6's.  I have treated the back wall and side walls.  Most of that has been removed because it took the life out of the music.  All my electronics are old.  I have a pair of Adcom 555II's that have been relegated to the woofers and am now using  my trusty Nakamichi PA-7 to drive the Maggies.  I bought a Marantz AV7005 preamp to get the HDMI control and an Oppo BD-95 for the variety of content.  I don't plan on getting deeper into this.  Might any of you suggest some easy fixes ( like Jim Smith did) to get all of this back into focus?  There is a 50 inch Panasonic TV sitting between the speakers.  The cavity in which they must exist is 12 feet wide- which is one end of a 32x20 ft room.  The ceiling goes up 3 floors (A-frame house) and at least in my mind is not a consideration.  The floor is hardwood with a funky Lowe's rug and by the way, the staircase going upstairs disects my listening area which is why the tweeters must go to the inside.  If I bring back the 1.6's it will be like accepting defeat.  Concrete stuff is what I need.  Thanks for your consideration.

David C -- Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:08

Half full
You have obviously been playing the audio game for awhile, so you know somtimes changes don't work out the way you pictured they would.  No doubt dissapointing and frustrating.  You would not be the first person to say they like the 1.6 over the 3.6.  The switch to a separate true ribbon tweeter complicates everything. The 3.6 needs lots of space to open up and side walls can really be difficult with the tweeter. Here is the way I would set them up.
This works best with a helper , concentrate on placing the speakers for optimum bass first.  Play something with a good consistant bass line (if you can, mark the points on a cd with the repeat function) play it over and over. 
1) Moving the right speaker only (speaker straight, no angle toward listener) slowly until you find the location with the most bass, mark spots on floor where you think bass is the strongest then again compare those points and place the right speaker on the point that is the strongest.
2) Repeat the above for the left speaker (if you hear an increase in bass that represents about a 3db boost, which is like doubling your power at a given volume knob point !)
3) Select a female vocal track  where the voice is centered ("Ballad of the Runaway Horse" by Jennifer Warnes & Rob Wasserman, Track 6 Duets)
4) Stand behind your speakers and tilt them in, aiming the tweeter section to a point about two feet behind the listening position (which should be the classic, centered between speakers, equalateral triangle) 
5) Make adjustments in tilt in untll voice is centered
6) Moving speakers to the outside toward side walls opens sound up, to a point, watch those side wall reflections ! Remember it's like shooting bank shots in pool and that gets real tricky with dipoles.
7) If you just can't get the voice in the center (mark speaker locations first) then, if voice is strong left either move the left speaker aft 1 inch, or the right speaker forward 1". This will move the voice to the right.  Play with this until you get voice centered.  With the maggies for/aft movement makes a huge difference!
           To test this, before you start changing anything, play a vocal piece, sit in you listening position and have a friend move one of the speakers a foot aft then a foot forward. Notice how extreme the voice  moves left and right.
8) Once you think you have it, listen to different recordings over several days, avoid moving speakers. Take some breaks or you will drive yourself crazy ! 
Notes:
A) Most who go from the 1.6 to the 3.6 use the tweeter anttenuators until they get used to them, especially if the 3.6's are new...quite bright.
B) I am not familiar with the Nak amp but I will say warmer is better on the tweeters. Those 555's are classics! Well suited for the bottom end. Back in the day I sold many 555's and Luxman M 117's on Maggies.  
C) Small movements make big differences in Maggies. You are dealing with direct sound and reflected sound. Be patient.
D) Lastly, go back to the 1.6 that's why it's a classic. 
Many of these issues have been improved upon on the new 3.7. It was alway a tough step up on the sales floor, the 1.6 was so good, and a great value. The 3.6 cost significantly more and even if one could afford them the 1.6 sound was often prefered.
 
I hope this helps. As you bought these on ebay it may be difficult to get willing help from a dealer. But you can always call Magnepan. They are fantastic people!
 
David
 
 
 

Half Full -- Thu, 06/28/2012 - 11:08

David,
Thanks so much brother, this is great!!
I have done all the moving and listening and moving and listening that I'm willing to do for a while.  What I have wound up with is almost the same placement as the 1.6's only slightly closer together with greater toe-in.  I placed some 2x2 acoustic absorbers on the wall beside the right speaker which has really tightened up the image and stopped the voices and instruments from moving around.  I wouldn't call the balance "warm" but there remains a slight swelling or bloating in the bass region but it is below the voice range, I estimate it is centered around 60 hz.  Conversely, I notice that everything I play seems to sound lightly less "friendly" or "musical" than the 1.6's did although the resolution (or articulation) seems to be an order of magnitude better than before.  I have also noticed that these sound way better from afar (other room) than their little brothers did.  I plan to let my ears get more settled into the way these sound and if I'm still not happy I will drag out the microphone and the RTA and start over.
By the way, I bought these from AudioConsultants in Illinois and they have been wonderful, even though the purchase was on eBay.
The PA-7 is a Nelson Pass design that I have loved because of it's sweetness but it may not have the gonads to make these Maggies sing.  I may put the Adcoms on them and biamp.  All in time.  Thanks again for the direction, I fear that I jumped the gun because I thought I could unpack the things and achieve nirvana without too much effort.  When everything gets friendly I will pursue the next step and report back.

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