Magico Model 6

I don't think anyone knows how to reply to your post! :D

Reason? The Model 6 are truly beyond words. If I were JV, and I need to write a review on the Model 6, I may just leave a few empty pages and fill the pages with musical notations. :)

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Quote:So the truth is that nobody have took enough time to listen to them carefully to be able to describe or talk about it

The truth is that nobody is prepared to write a review of a speaker like the Model 6 on the basis of an hour of listening in a hotel room!

The next major U.S. show is in Denver, October 12-14--the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. After that, of course, there is CES in Vegas in January. I don't know whether Wolf will be showing the Model 6 at CES again this year; I'm pretty sure the Model 6 won't be at RMAF.

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Sound by Singer in NYC is a Magico dealer. I don't know whether Singer stocls the Model 6, however. You could ask.

BTW, I wrote up my impressions of the Model 6 in my 2007 CES report. You might find it elsewhere on this site.

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Gentlemen,

Jonathan's impression of the Model 6 can be found here:

http://www.avguide.com/features/ces07/bestof-product.php

Scroll all the way down to the bottom, to read Jonathan's take on the most significant new product of the last CES.

Enjoy!

Ari Koinuma

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?
it's right there. I shall copy and paste for you:

Jonathan Valin: Magico Model 6 loudspeaker
It was only last year that MAGICO's Alon Wolf was a boutique speaker-maker who specialized in one-ofs for very wealthy clients. His first mainstream commercial venture, the two-way MAGICO Mini changed that. Robert Harley, Harry Pearson, and I thought it was the best sound at 2005's CES. And now, a year later, Wolf has done it again - big time.

His $125k four-way MAGICO Model 6 wasn't just the best speaker at this year's CES; it was quite possibly the best speaker I've ever heard.

There is, however, a story behind this.

When Wayne Garcia and I first visited Alon's room - early on Monday morning - he was showing the Model 6, driven by some ultra-expensive Japanese unobtainia and an Esoteric CD player, and a new "udget"model, the three-way $22k V-3, driven by a VAC preamp, a Spectral CD player, and a Spectral amp. I have to admit that neither Wayne nor I were impressed with the sound, which was bright, aggressive, and analytical - on both speakers.

I figured I'd let both speakers break in for a couple of days and come back to hear if they'd improved. Well, by Thursday they had improved - to an extent that was mind-boggling. However, Wolf had also made a couple of ancillary changes that clearly added to their progress. In the case of the V-3s, he'd substituted a VAC amp for the Spectral, with an effect that turned a plethora of raw detail into sweet, sweet music.

With the Model 6, he'd switched sources - from CDs played back through the Esoteric unit to quarter-inch analog tapes played back on a custom Technics deck that will soon be marketed (along with tapes) commercially.

Folks, I've heard some mighty fine stereo systems over the years. I've reviewed truly great loudspeakers from Rockport, Kharma, Nearfield, MBL, Sound Labs, Magneplanar, Sonus-Faber, Ascendo, Avantgarde, and MAGICO itself, among many, many others. But fed by the Technics tape deck and those Japanese oddball electronics, the MAGICO Model 6s reached a level of realism from full orchestra to solo voice that I've simply never heard matched. Oh, some speakers may equal it on some kinds of music; some on others. But none, at this point, on all music.

What are the secret ingredients? Well, parts and manufacture, to start with. The Model 6's enclosures comprise 650 pounds (per side) of 6061-T6 aircraft-grade aluminum. These things go beyond inert to black-hole level; all a knuckle-rap test would result in would be a busted knuckle. Its two midrange drivers are the custom titanium-sandwich cones used to such marvelous effect in the Mini; its tweeter is a variant on the Heil Air Motion Transformer; its three acoustic suspension woofers are custom-designed carbon-fiber numbers. (Wolf is moving toward carbon-fiber drivers of his own design in all his products.)

But it isn't merely the highest-grade parts and manufacture that make the Model 6s what they are. After all, the Continuum Caliburn is just as well made. It is, in my opinion, a clearer sense of how engineering informs sound - of what each part buys you, sonically, when it is properly and precisely implemented in a system. Wolf has a genius for system design, and the Model 6 is proof.

I might've killed to review the Model 6's. Unfortunately, it probably would've killed me to get 1300 pounds of solid aluminum up six steep flights of stairs. Instead, they are slated to go to our Editor in Chief, Robert "Lucky Dog" Harley. All I can say is that from the moment they arrive Robert will very likely have the best stereo in the world.

samuel33 wrote:akoinuma wrote:Gentlemen,

Jonathan's impression of the Model 6 can be found here:

http://www.avguide.com/features/ces07/bestof-product.php

Scroll all the way down to the bottom, to read Jonathan's take on the most significant new product of the last CES.

Enjoy!

Ari Koinuma

I have just abandonned the idea of finding these article after 20 min of searching....thanx akoinuma....

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jvalin wrote:Sound by Singer in NYC is a Magico dealer. I don't know whether Singer stocls the Model 6, however. You could ask.

BTW, I wrote up my impressions of the Model 6 in my 2007 CES report. You might find it elsewhere on this site.

As fortune would have it, I am going to be in NYC for a few days in October. I will have to arrange an audition, so I can hear what everyone is raving about.

BTW, who is the Magico dealer in L.A.?

Larry Lerner

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Hey, Larry! Did you see 3:10 to Nowhere? Man, what a disappointment.

I'm not sure there is an L.A. dealer for Magico, yet. The two California dealers listed on the Magico Web site are Audio Revelation in Carlsbad and Audio Image Ltd in Oakland.

And Jeremy, I do hope to visit Robert when he gets the Model 6 early next year and listen at greater length.

Ari, thank you for posting the link to the show report. And WSlam thank you for printing it out. The only thing that was left out, although you could probably gather it from reading what I wrote, was that the Model 6 was my pick for Best Sound at CES. (It was, as I recall, also Wayne's pick and Robert's.)

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hello Jonathan

i have heard the model 6 at CES. I was not impressed at all with its performance.

funny , i think, is what can be bought with staggering us$120.000 :

110.000 pounds of aluminium ( 84 times the weight of the aluminium used in the model 6 )

279 amt2340 mundorf ribbon tweeters ( us$ 429,00 at madisound )

witch might be the most expensive driver used in this speaker.

the asked price is total irracional in my opinion, i would call just crazy someone, that pays this kind of money for what ever speaker actually it might be ) luck for Alon, that exist people that this money is like a tip, so they don't care to spend it for speakers...

Musiclover

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musiclover,

Let me see: Robert, Wayne, and I (Harry wasn't at the show, so he didn't vote, but he did select the Minis as Best of Show the year before)—the senior staff at TAS—thought the Model 6, when driven by The Tape Project deck, was the best sound at CES and maybe the best sound we've heard at any show, while you "were not impressed at all." No offense, kiddo, but who are you? How long did you listen? When did you listen? Did you come back to listen after the tape machine was installed?

You came on the original Mini thread proclaiming the superiority of two-way horn/dynamic driver speakers—a successful example of which, even though I love horns, I've never heard. You trashed the Mini IIs, even though you eventually admitted you never heard them. On top of which, you are (or are preparing to be) in the speaker business yourself, but didn’t state this upfront. That isn't a good resume.

Angelo, I want to be fair to you and I've already told you that I will listen to your speaker when it is showed in the U.S. Moreover, you are free to disagree with me or anyone on this site about the Model 6 (as I said in my CES report, I wasn’t at all impressed with it, initially, either). But, honestly, I’m not sure that it serves your purposes not to be more forthright about yourself or to repeatedly dismiss the creations of one of the few serious speaker designers in this country as mere overpriced luxury goods.

Jon

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[This forum is too corrupt to get a chance to have my post inside.

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Jvalin do you remember what was the first source before "the tape ..." deck?

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hello Jon

you are inverting things and making false accusations here. The oposite of what you say is true. I have only to you with a private email revealed who i am, exactly because i do not want to mix up things. In no way i compare what i do, with what Alon does , ore whoever else.
As well it is not true that i have not heard Alons speakers. I have heard the model6, and the ultimo's. I do not necessarly need to hear the Mini's as well to say how it sounds like. The topology reveals more than enough.
that Alons speakers are overpriced : yes, i stay behind my words, it is my view of things. not only Alons speakers, but others on the high-end market as well, like kharmas , for example. Do the facts i said here not speak more than enough for themself ?
So do you really think i brought this into question to promote my speakers ore myself ?

"and have asserted the superiority of a type of two-way loudspeaker that you yourself are planning to build and market for a good deal more money than the Mini IIs. On that basis, why should anyone trust your objectivity? "

i have clearly said that i have no intention to re edit a old design, like the
TAD 2451. You bring my speakers into question without reason, they are completely different that the TAD's i have spoken abouth here in this forum. At no moment i brought my design into discussion, ore into comparison. That's why i did not reveal as well my identity.

you know well that only with a flat frequency response alone , no speaker
can be judged for its quality. Certainly Lynn Olson did not say, what he said, just comparing a frequency plot.

I tell you why i am not impressed with low sensitivity speakers, in general.
They lack of dinamic contrast.

compression and horn loading provides the sort of effortless and lifelike sound reproduction that other speaker types can't quite manage.

rds Musiclover

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samuel33 wrote:The Mini (1&2) have been discussed a lot...

But not the Model 6.
I know that there are few people who have already listen to them.

:idea: so what do you think about them?I was in the same position as you were, heard the MINI but didn't heard the M6. I asked many questions about the M6 and get really good response, especially from jvalin and others. So I thought that it should be good since MINI did really sound good, and price at a higher point. By the way it was design, which I'm not going into details, I have a feeling that it's going to sound good, but not $120K good. So I flew to two different countries (I won't mention), with an audiophile friend, to listen to it for myself, and brought some of my own materials. So this is the outcome:
The midrange sounded good and dynamic, this is the strongest point.
The bass sounded accurate, but it won't go below 38Hz (if you are lucky). So no bass.
Upper freq. is roll-off in an obvious way, therefore no airyness, nothing. Look it up on the Mundorf's website on his AMT, they are all roll-off at >25KHz.
It won't disappear, you can hear the sound is coming from L&R near or around or sometime at the speaker.
It sounded like an ordinary speaker that has good midrange and play loud. That's it. So it's up to you, if you think this is worth $120K, then please go ahead.
In my opinion, MINI is the best speaker that Alon did so far. Haven't heard the Ultimate, and not care for at that price point, simply because it's going to be a challenge to integrate all those drivers. If you did them, it might sound good. But for what? why put all that effort? it's the same thing as DIY speakers.
I heard he's coming out with M3.5, but I don't know.....

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Dan H, I heard the AMT that Adam Audio uses, and it was extended and dynamic, thus I assume that was the case with M6's tweeter too. But it was an assumption, I also mentioned that I haven't heard the M6 when I state that I like AMT. I still like the idea of an AMT tweeter, even now. At the end of the day, I did what everybody suppose to do, that is, listen to it for yourself, but without the 'Tape Project' machine (which by the way, it is really great) and use CD, SACD, or LP.

Again, it's my own personal opinion. The question is post in this thread, so the discussion is open for comment. Remeber that I really love the MINI. I'm just an end user Dan, I do not defend Magico as a company. But it seems that you do, that led to me to speculate in your motivation for defending them.

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Quote:in Japan, I audition both the MINI II and Model 6, guys! beside the bass, there's no comparison when it comes down to disappearance and soundstaging.

You need to get your stories straight, M-Channels. BTW, if the M6s only go down to 38Hz, I'll eat a NanoTec woofer.

As for the sound of the M6...the entire TAS editorial team thought the M6 was one of the great CES demos (at least when the tape player was hooked up). That said, hearing something for a few minutes at a show and hearing it for several weeks in your home are two different things. When Robert gets the speaker for review, we will have a definitive assessment.

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Quote:When robert have planned to audition them ?

Early next year. I plan to visit Robert once he has the M6s ensconced and give them a long listen myself.

Quote:Jvalin do you think that stereo sound in japan is reliable?

I don't read Japanese, so I can't really say. I do know that some people think highly of SS's measurements.

Quote:Does magico do advertisement on the web or in magazine?

I know that Magico advertises in TAS. (So does Wilson, for that matter.) I do not know if the company advertises in other magazines or on the Web.

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hi m-channel

interesting that you judge the model6 with these reference points :

"The bass sounded accurate, but it won't go below 38Hz (if you are lucky). So no bass.
Upper freq. is roll-off in an obvious way, therefore no airyness, nothing. Look it up on the Mundorf's website on his AMT, they are all roll-off at >25KHz.
It won't disappear, you can hear the sound is coming from L&R near or around or sometime at the speaker.
It sounded like an ordinary speaker that has good midrange and play loud."

The picture i make reading this: you are probably a new rich, with plenty of money, but too lazy to make a serious research, first of all finding out what you personally like and want to accomplish, and only use the audio magazines as information source. after this, you dont hesitate to travel to another country to listen to what you think might do it for you ( actually , very smart, many people buy expensive speakers, without never hear them before ).

If you are looking just for a speakers that specially has deep and high extensions, and "disappear", than you will find many in the up to $10.000,00 range. Use the rest of the money you don't need to make some nice holydays in tahiti.

if you are willing to travel , to find your dream speakers, and want to spend up to us$120.000,00 ,
if real-life dynamics is important for you, i would go for a 3 or 4-way horn system, because that's the only technology that can deliver 120db peak SPL, and do it with ease, they have dinamic contrast and live like sound, like no other speaker.
Then i recommend you to go to japan and visit Endo San of ALE, Audio Tekne, Maxonic, and specially Goto.

http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~tnk/index.html

Their drivers are expensive, but with that kind of money they can put a 4 way full horn loaded system together for you, ( don't need a magician and spend 5x more ) and you will find your audio nirvana.
i have heard a view systems there , they sound superb, so i don't talk just what i heard from others, ore read on the net.

if you do not like horns, why look for trendish speakers with ceramic drivers ? just because it's hype, all rave about them, the audio magazines praise them ? ceramic drivcers are very delicate, break fast, and have a colored , hyper analitic sound. i heard them at CES and in italy, i don't like them. There are many better other options.

rds

to Samuel

Roooomy is liying. He did not exclude me because the reason he mentioned.

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Thank you for your approval jvalin. I know that you're extremely capable of evaluating any audio components than most individuals, but you also have obligations for the publications and the whole high end audio industry that you represent. If you wrote all the positive and negative of any components, this industry will collapse long time ago.

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jvalin, they do it because of price point reasons. None of their other models (at least for now) will be as good as their MINI II. Minus the lower frequency, of course!

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Please let me PM you or email, I can't give out that kind of info in public. These dealers are good people!! Really nice guys, I can't do that to them.

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Dan H wrote:So coming here and trashing the M6 is not doing harm enough to these “good people” you are trying to protect. Your genuine sympathy is touching. I am not sure why JV is bothering with that kind of BS anyway. This is a public forum. If you got something to say – say it. If you like to converse with JV in private, get off the thread and give us a break.The question was post (post #1), if anybody heard M6? I'm just giving my opinions..... That's the reason for having a 'forum' Dan!!

The question is why am I not allowed to say any negative things about the M6, if you read carefully....I said the midrange is really good! I also wrote that the MINI is a really well made and engineered speaker too. Isn't this good enough, what do you want! You want me to lie and praise on all Magico products!

Are you associated with Magico? I bet you are, because if you are just a happy owner of M6, you wouldn't be hanging around here. You'll be at your music room enjoying your speakers. And if you have a pair of MINI II or I, then you wouldn't care what I wrote! Who are you? I'm just a nobody that was really close in buying M6.

Everybody got to think about this: For a full-range $120K, would you want to compromise in more than one thing.

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Quote:The question was post (post #1), if anybody heard M6? I'm just giving my opinions

M-Channels, I think that it was clearly established that you never heard the M6. Therefore, you do not have any opinion on it.

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M-Channels,

I have not yet received an e-mail from you about where and when you auditioned the M6. It was your idea to write me about this in a private e-mail, and I told you I would keep what you said in confidence--and I will. But the fact that you found the time to answer Dan, but haven't yet found the time to e-mail me is a bit disturbing. We take people at their word here, so please comply with your own suggestion and answer my question in a private e-mail.

Thanks,

Jonathan

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Quote:play back with tape deck normally adds some sort of dynamic, might this be the reason you liked it more, when your heard the M6 playing with this source.

just wondering : have you heard the nelson pass rushmore ?

What tape adds is what Pearson calls continuousness. When it comes to dynamics, vritually every other medium, digital or analog, sounds hurky-jerky by comparison. That said, no tape player all by itself is going to make a bad speaker sound like a great one. The M6 sounded great.

I have not heard Pass' Rushmore, but I like his amps and I like him. You wouldn't know this but Nelson started off making speakers. Horn speakers, as a matter of fact. He told me that he once built a bass horn the size of a four-car garage. It was mounted on a hillside above a college campus and when he turned it on the whole valley was flooded with sound.

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[This forum is too corrupt to get a chance to have my post inside.

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