Magico M5 Loudspeakers
Jonathan Valin -- Tue, 02/10/2009 - 15:16
Tomorrow, if all goes according to plan, I get the Magico M5s!
I will begin posting photos of the install process and the speakers sometime after noon. I will also blog about the installation, with photos of the Elam boys carting them up my three flights of stairs to the listening room, where the Soulution 710/720/740, ARC 610T/Ref 3/PH7/CD8, Walker Black Diamond, and Tara Labs Omega Gold and Zero Black await.
I gotta admit I'm excited. This ought to be a great stereo system--anything less will be a disappointment.
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No. I'm still around. I've just been busy with other things.
I'll post my latest findings in a day or two. Needless to say, they are very positive.
Sorry I did not mean are you dead I meant is the review dead. Look forward to your latest findings.
Anyone interested in the Magico M5 will have an opportunity to hear them in what will likely be optimal conditions. Overture A/V in Wilmington, Delaware is hosting the world premier of the M5 with its designer, Alon Wolf, on May 16. The M5s will be driven by Spectral electronics (I suspect the amazing DMA-360 amplifiers) and connected with MIT Oracle MA cabling and interconnects. I'm also attending the event.
Overture has outstanding listening rooms (they were built by the same company that designed and built my room) and consistently delivers terrific sound.
I'm looking forward to hearing the M5 again at length with familar electronics.
Magico man "- Sorry I did not mean are you dead I meant is the review dead. Look forward to your latest findings."
You are funny… But what happened to JV and the M5? He was going to post more info in a day or two. That was over a week ago. Did he lose interest?
Yeah, I lost interest. NOT.
I'm waiting to try out less expensive amplification, which i don't have in hand yet but will early next week (thus the delay in posting).
Just wondering, its been some time since the Sonus Faber Stradivari was released and touted one of the worlds best then. Is the Strad still competitive wirth the likes of the Magico v3 or v5, the WP'8's or the new revel Salons?
Dafos,
The Sonus Faber Strad was, is, and remains one gorgeous sounding loudspeaker. SF doesn't make speakers that don't sound beautiful; it is part of the company's aesthetic. I think that Magico has a different aesthetic. It aims for a more neutral, more transparent-to-sources sound. With a great record, it sounds great (and very realistic); with a poor one, less so, though it is not a "picky" loudspeaker--it doesn't have to have everything (from source to amplification) "just so" to sound lovely.
I can't speak about the Revel Salons or the Wilsons, which I've never tested in my home.
Jon
Tomorrow, i will be getting three amps--a stereo amp and a set of monoblocks--that none other than Alon Wolf recommended to me for their sonic excellence. (He often uses the stereo amp with his own speakers in his shop.) And here's the sweetest part: The stereo amp costs $800; the monoblocks cost $2300! For those of you who are waiting to know whether you can successfully drive the M5s (or any quality speaker) with something a wee bit less pricey than a Soulution 700, I'll soon let ya know.
Let me also reiterate something. There are a lot of great loudspeakers on the market right now, and I've been very lucky over the past few years to hear most of them, often in my home system. I have never heard a more realistic loudspeaker than the Magico M5. It is, for me, the closest I've come to the absolute sound. This isn't to say that some of my past favorites are any less favored. I still love the majestic, three-dimensional, highly invislble MBL 101 X-Tremes and the clear-as-glass, incredibly-transparent-to-sources MartinLogan CLXes, but the M5s do much of what these marvels do almost as well and do their own things supremely well. Everyone who's heard them--and that would be a lot of folks now, among them several very hard sells and a few manufacturers and distributors of competing products--has agreed that they are the best they've heard in my home. They sound fantastic with Soulution, every bit as fantastic with Audio Research, and, well, we'll see how they do with budget gear. Although I can't imagine anyone who buys these paragons not wanting to drive them with the very best in solid-state or tubes, wanting something and being able to afford to buy it are two different things. Most audiophiles sink the vast majority of their spending cash in loudspeakers at the start, which is the right decision, then work their way "up" to deluxe front ends and amplification. If that's the situation you're in, keep your fingers crossed. I might just have an answer for you.
I will report on the "mystery" amps toward the end of week in this thread, and then (if warranted) start a separate thread on them.
> The stereo amp costs $800; the monoblocks cost $2300!
Let me take an educated guess. Digital?
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
<<Let me take an educated guess. Digital?>>
Nope! They are not Class D switching amps--or Class D amps of any kind. They are push-pull Class AB solid-state amps.
That's going to be some heroic $800 amp if it can hold its own in a system where even the interconnects cost 20 times that much. It'll be very interesting to hear the results of these experiments. Thanks for doing them.
It's my pleasure, actually. I'm as curious as you are. I'm not expecting miracles, BTW. I'm not expecting a budget Soulution 710 or 700. But if there is an $800 amp out there that is "good enough" for the champagne taste of Alon and Yair, then I want to hear it.
Thanks Jonathan. I love reading your reviews. You describe me, I bought the V3s after listening to them with $100K of front end electronics at the dealer. I have the newer McIntosh tubes amps and Accuphase CD DP67 cd player. I wish I could afford $40K for Soluution 720 gear, but can't. So, am very curious what the $800 amp special is. I'd love to know before you release it to the world and the price quadruples and then it is not such a bargain! My amp is good, but it is not what I heard at the dealer. I'm sure that more power would help my situation. I am stuck at 75 Watts per Channel with an integrated MA2275. Sound is still amazing, but I'm amp shopping, but can't afford anything good yet. Saving pennies every day. But, $800 is interesting and worth a shot. Would you spill the beans early? Email is terrelhill @ att DOT net . Thanks Jonathan!
Here are the specs for the $2300/pair monoblocks:
And here are the specs on the $800 stereo amp:
Terry,
I'll be talking about the sound of the amp, which arrived last night, in fairly short order. I haven't listened to the stereo amp yet, but the monoblocks don't sound like any $2.3k solid-state amp I've heard before. They don't have the usual graininess or harshness of solid-state at this price point--and their soundstage is phenomenally wide.
You don't have to worry about the price going up after a review. These are not new products. They have been for sale (continuously) for better than a decade and were reviewed (and extolled) back at the turn of the millennium in several fora. Their price has remained stable since their introduction, thanks largely to the fact that they are sold direct. I am told that over 5000 stereo amps have been sold since they were introduced. (BTW, the version of the $800 stereo amp that was delivered to me has some power-supply tweaks, which raise its price to $995. This isn't a "hot-rod" amp, though. These same upgrade packages are offered on the company's Web site and any customer--not just a reviewer--can order the amp with them if he chooses.)
Jon
Jon,
Thank you for all the info. I am anxiously awaiting to read your review. Let us know what you hear.
Terry
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/index.html
You got it!!!!
What do I win! :)
The grateful thanks of your nation (which, I guess, in your case would be Magico Land).
Hi Jonathan,
I ordered a pair of reference monos today after talking to the owner for an hour. He is a real cool guy. If every audio company had someone as passionate about sound on staff they'd sell the socks off their products. I also love his approach to "value" in the audio market. I'll let you know what the reference monos sound like. They arrive in 3 weeks. I am excited. (Can you believe the word reference and $4900 go in the same sentence)????
I remember when I wrote the check for my V3s - I bought them because I was so impressed with the overall cohesiveness and the HUGE sound stage that seemed to go forward and behind the speakers like half a football length in all directions. It was crazy. Since I brought the speakers they have yet to have a sound stage anything like what I heard at the dealer. It's there, but not the size or the amazing cohesiveness that was present during the demo (I listened to all my own music so it was not just the recordings either).
I also don't think the issue is my room. My room is equal to the dealers. I don't think it is my speaker placement either. My speaker placement has been meticulously adjusted to get the speakers positioned. It's also not that the V3s are not broken in. I have over 600 hours on them. It HAS to be that my amplifier is just not up to the task. Klaus thinks there is not enough current from my mac going to speakers. Hope the monos recreate the soundstage I'm missing. I'll be sad and stumped if the new amps can't recreate the sound stage. We'll see. I will let you know.
Terry
Good luck, Terry. And do let me know how things work out.
Hey Jonathan,
Would you mind taking a minute and either disspell or confirm the Nordost IC story? Is it true that you were given a 17 meter pr. of Nordost ICs for review, cut them into 17-1 meter prs., reterminated and sold them on Audiogon?
Thanks.
So much music...so little time.
Post by Tom Martin about the matter
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
No, it is not true. I have never sold anything on Audiogon (or the Internet), or approved of, assisted in, or profited from the sale of anything on Audiogon (or the Internet), and wouldn't in any case know how to "reterminate" Nordost interconnect.
BTW, who's in the pic associated with your screen name?
Just a pic of me some 20 years ago :-)
So much music...so little time.
Heh-heh-heh!
I have listened to the Magico V3s driven by MAC SS amps (monoblocks) and came away impressed. Maybe a bit weak in the lowest registers but that could be attributed to placement. I have also heard VSA VR5 Anniversaries driven my MAC electronics and came away equally impressed or perhaps even more so. Question...have you heard the VR5s or any other VSA speakers. If so, how would you compare them to the Magicos?
thx.
So much music...so little time.
es,
I believe I've heard the VR5s at shows, but not in my home. I am slated to get the VAS Uni-Field Model 3 for review momentarily and will be able to speak more confidently about how VSAs fare vis-a-vis Magicos after I've listened to the Uni-Fields.
Jon
My Magico V3s are currently driven by McIntosh MC501s, to very good effect. Tomorrow, the MC501s get swapped out for the new Spectral DMA-360 Series 2. So much for budget amps! But I've lusted after Spectral gear ever since HP's first DMC-10 review 30 years ago, and now is the time. I'm an engineer, I demand good engineering from anything I buy, and is there any other audio engineer with the breadth and depth of Keith Johnson?
Anyway, I'll do my best to be objective about the differences (or not) of the Spectrals vs. the Macs. And given that the Macs are readily available on Audiogon in the $5-$6K range, they probably qualify as budget amps in these discussions.
The Odysseys look objectively amazing for the price. The ability to deliver high current under transient conditions is likely one of the major sonic differentiators of the best amps, and at least by published specs, the Odysseys are extremely capable by any standard.
The MC501s are budget amps at $11.5K? I too am an engineer, in fact an EE and tend to set high standards as well but classifying the 501s as budget equipment is absurd.
So much music...so little time.
Heard the V3 and the new 360 at CES. Magnificent! I guess Spectral is using the V3 now to demo their stuff. You are, a lucky fellow…
Scott,
That's some swell system you're getting!
Jon
Indeed, I'm extremely fortunate to be able to pursue this hobby at a high level after 30 years. Some experimentation with cables, a room acoustic makeover, and I'm done for a few years at least (or so, I now claim).
Even completely cold and unbroken-in, the Spectral 360s exhibit a remarkable transparency, purity, and soundstage expansiveness. What I'm finding to be different these days in high-end audio, compared to, say, 15 years ago, is that my expectations of the "tradeoffs" are consistently wrong. I read about the "transparency" and "detail" of the V3s, and I expected to hear a speaker that was very clear but clinical, analytical, bright, and a little edgy. Ditto for the Spectral amps, and the Berkeley AlphaDAC. Instead, what I'm getting as I swap in each of these components is sound that is simultaneously more exquisitely detailed, and more natural, true to life, easier on the ear, more musical. Just one telling example: pop music vocals, even things like the old pan-potted motown recordings, are now strikingly realistic. And the improvement in overall coherence is such that, for the first time, I can follow even unfamiliar song lyrics without liner notes. It's not the kind of difference that whacks you over the head, it's the kind of difference that makes the music more ingratiating. It's a great time to be an audiophile and music lover.
"classifying the 501s as budget equipment is absurd."
In comparison to the $100K + Soulution JV is raving about, indeed a bargain!
Fellas,
I never claimed that the Soulution gear was a "bargain"! The Odyssey gear, OTOH, is definitely a bargain.
Jon
I'd love to hear your comparison of these speakers with the Sound Labs.
Jack D II
I would too, not just for the obvious reasons. But they need to be compared with current production employing the PX technology.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
what record player is the one we see in the pictures?
thanks
Its funny how opinions diverge....
comment from the German High-end show about the M5 :
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=33&thread=11384&back=&sort=&z=3
Magico. Fand ich furchtbar. Es hat auch gedröhnt wie verrückt. Haben die beim aufstellen die Raummode nicht bemerkt? Jedenfalls kann ich den Hype um die Dinger nicht verstehen.
Magico. I thought it sounded terrible...... anyway, i can't understant the hype abouth these things....
I too don't understand the hype. I had the opportunity to hear the M5s on two different (rooms, electronics, sources) occasions and walked away with a decidedly "meh" taste in my mouth. When I found out how much Magico is asking for them, it kind of made sense. It's hard to get decent sound on a budget like that.
"It's hard to get decent sound on a budget like that...." I must be dense but don't understand unless your comment was strictly tongue-in-cheek. Not heard the M5s but have heard the V3s and thought they were good. thx.
I've never heard speakers worth listening to under ~$200k. It's all relative though.
]
The M5s look amazing, but to my ears sound average at best. Might be something I'd run in a guest room.
Alrighty then. What do you currently listen to??
Coltrane Supremes. They're pretty good, but I can't help but think they'd be better with more diamonds.
Marten Coltrane supreme are ridiculously expensive ( like Magico M5 btw. ) . And these Ceramic drivers are crap. Thats like throwing money out through the window.
I am in the wrong playground...over and out.
A picture from Munich high end show 2009 (24.5.09):
I wouldn`t be surprised if I see a picture just like this in TAS, but with Valin and Harley on each side of the speakers. A "joke", BUT I have never experienced anything like this with a product in a magazine like the "connection" between Magico and TAS. I am sure they are great speakers, but I have heard from several people that the Magico`s are good speakers, like many others. There is a thin line between good and serious reviewing (like TAS imo are the best examples of) and over the top praise of one manufacturer over a (too) long period of time.
This said, I really enjoy the magazine.
We just came back from Munich. Great show, although overall sound performances were not as good as CES. The M5 in the Magico room were magnificent. Perhaps, against all odds, better than CES. Easy best sound at the show to my ears. Other than the TAD room, which was very enjoyable, nothing else stood out sound wise. Lots of fun, good food and easy access. Hope to be back next year.