Magico M5 Loudspeakers
Jonathan Valin -- Tue, 02/10/2009 - 15:16
Tomorrow, if all goes according to plan, I get the Magico M5s!
I will begin posting photos of the install process and the speakers sometime after noon. I will also blog about the installation, with photos of the Elam boys carting them up my three flights of stairs to the listening room, where the Soulution 710/720/740, ARC 610T/Ref 3/PH7/CD8, Walker Black Diamond, and Tara Labs Omega Gold and Zero Black await.
I gotta admit I'm excited. This ought to be a great stereo system--anything less will be a disappointment.
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Jon,
I know you are a fan of Audio Research electronics, as am I. What are your thoughts about driving Magico V3 speakers with Ref 5 preamp, and Ref 210 amp. Have you ever compared this sound with that of the V3 combined with Spectral electronics.
Thanks for your input.
Arthur
I typed before I grokked. But thanks for the thorough annotation. That's very impressive.
Jon,
If I wanted to measure my in-room response the same way using a Mac laptop, can you recommend a mike and the procedure I would need to follow?
Many Thanks
Halcro
Halcro,
I'm not sure that the measuring software that I use is available in a native Mac version. In fact, both Ascendo's easy-to-use, relatively affordable Room Tools (www.room-tools.com/) and Liberty Instruments' a bit more complex, more expensive, but nearly-state-of-the-art Praxis Suite (www.libinst.com/) are Windows programs. Of course, if you have a Mac that will run Windows programs (via Boot Camp) then this isn't a problem.
As for a mike, I have a variety that I use (several of them quite expensive), but Liberty Instruments offers a very affordable calibrated "shotgun" mike that it is excellent (especially when used, as intended, with the Liberty Instruments Praxis software).
Jon
Halcro,
On how to proceed: You will need to hook your computer up to your preamp, which means you'll probably need an outboard USB DAC (Room Tools is geared for the Edirol UA25, Praxis for the M-Audio Transit) through which you output the software's pink noise or impulse signal to your stereo and your speakers (via RCA interconnects) and input the test results from your speakers (via your microphone). I generally take RTAs with the microphone about 6 feet (2m) from the speaker, aimed about midway between the tweeter and the midrange drivers with a two-way and rather more toward the midrange driver(s) on a multiway. I also, on occasion, measure from the listening position itself.
None of this is rocket science, as most of the work is done invisibly by the software. It is also, as I noted in my post to Steve, kind of capricious, in that you can change the results more substantially than you might think with relatively small changes in microphone orientation.
Jon
For what it's worth, last night I hooked up my Liberty Instruments Praxis Software and Liberty's calibrated mike and got this astonishing RTA (taken from about 6 feet from the M5), confirming what RoomTools had already shown me--this is one extraordinarily flat-measuring loudspeaker. Although the response has been smoothed in this plot, I should have printed the unsmoothed response which looked almost identical to this. As good as it already is, the low bass is probably even flatter than it appears here because of room effects. I've simply never tested a full-range loudspeaker that measures as ruler-flat as this one does. It's kind of mind-boggling. Do notice the complete absence of the so-called "baffle step" (suckout in the 100-500Hz area where the mid/bass driver starts acting like a four-pi spherical radiator instead of a two-pi hemispherical radiator, reducing energy in the forward direction--a testament to the superb engineering of the drivers, crossover, and enclosure of the M5.
Thanks Jon,
The Praxis doesn't seem to be compatible with the Mac but the RoomTools may be?
Halcro
Halcro,
I don't think so. As I said, I believe that both RoomTools and Praxis are PC-only. There may well be a Mac-native program that I'm not aware of. I'll ask Steven Stone, our Mac guru.
Jon
I've now listened to the M5s for a solid week-and-a-half and can hear them relaxing just like the Minis did. Unlike the Minis, however, with their ScanSpeak Revelators that like to be listened to slightly off-axis, the M5s seemed to prefer to be toed-in so you're listening more directly on the tweeter axis. Toeing the speakers in on-axis certainly produces an extraordinarily solid center image and an uncannily seamless soundstage, almost as if you're listening to three-channel stereo rather than two. I haven't begun to experiment with seating height yet, but will do so this week. As a side note, the M5s definitely prefer to be bi-amped rather than bi-wired with the Soulution 700 monoblocks (for which see the thread www.avguide.com/forums/powerhouse on this site).
" As a side note, the M5s definitely prefer to be bi-amped rather than bi-wired with the Soulution 700 monoblocks (for which see the thread www.avguide.com/forums/powerhouse on this site). "
Jonathan- I am confused. Are you bi-amping the M5's ?
Alliss,
Yes, i am bi-amping the M5s. The Soulution 700 is an unusual amp in that it has two separate but identical amps (with two separate but identical power supplies) inside each giant chassis.To use a 700 as a monoblock, you must bridge the two amps inside it. To do this Soulution provides a thick metal bar that links the grounds of each of the amps at their output posts. If you remove this bar, you can use each amp inside the chassis individually to bi-amp your speaker, which is what I am doing with the Magicos (and what Alon Wolf did at CES).
Jon
Here is a photo of my latest M5 setup, with speakers roughly seven-and-a-half feet apart (center-to-center), three-and-a-half feet from sidewalls, and four-and-a-half feet from backwalls. The two Soulution 710 amps will go behind the speakers sometime this week.
And here is a picture of my listening spot. Though you can't tell because of the lighting and the angle, the couch is actually two feet from the backwall.
"The two Soulution 710 amps will go behind the speakers sometime this week."
Jonathan- Confused again. Did you mean the 700 amps or do you have a pair of 710's for bi-amping ?
Or are you going to bi-amp the M5s with the 700's and a 710 ?
Alliss,
I'm sorry for the careless mistake. I meant the two 700 amps. I only have one 710 and that'll be leaving soon.
Jon
Quite extraordinary. It a shame RH never published his Wilson X-2 in-room measurements. It would have been nice to see some objective comparison between these two flagship.
Just curious about the pair you are auditioning. Are they like the first production pair? S/N 0001 & 2 :)
They look great and cannot wait to get to hear them for myself.
Anonymous,
I think the M5s I'm auditioning are the first production pair; I know they are the same pair that was shown so successfully at CES. BTW, the CES M5 showing, as great as it was, was just the tip of the iceberg with these speakers. In a good room, with careful setup (about which I will have much more to say in my review), first-rate electronics, first-rate cabling, and first-rate front end, these are the best cone speakers I've ever heard (not just at CES or RMAF, but anywhere--dealer showroom, my home, or someone else's home). IMO, even at $90k the M5s may constitute a "very good deal" for a truly world-class, truly high-resolution, truly low distortion, truly and astonishingly full-range loudspeaker.
Jon
I can’t help by noticing your “best cone speakers” qualifications all the time. How should we interpreted this kind of disclaimers? Dose it means that you still prefer, overall or on some levels, the MBL or the ML? or perhaps the Symposium? Is there anything the M5 is lacking-in that the others have?
Walter,
Man, you guys are tough (and smart).
Dipole membrane loudspeakers do certain things uniquely well; omni Radialstrahler loudspeakers do other things uniquely well; and Magico cones have their own remarkable strengths (even in comparison with other exceptional dynamic designs). In slightly qualifying my praise of the M5 by saying "best cone speaker" I'm merely acknowledging this fact. However, after two weeks of close and constant listening, I am prepared to say that the M5 is, overall, the best loudspeaker I've ever heard.
Is that unequivocal enough?
Jon
"I am prepared to say that the M5 is, overall, the best loudspeaker I've ever heard."
Jon,
So what's it like psychologically to reach that end point - Magico, Soulution, Tara Labs, etc. As you know, and may have experienced at one point in your life, audiophiles are a crazy bunch. They are obsessed with upgrading. They are constantly checking audiogon and other online forums, even if they can't afford a piece of equipment. They keep their audio magazines in the bath room so they can look at them several times a day. They will eat ramen for months and lie to their spouses just to get a marginally better sounding piece of equipment.
Most people dream to get their hands on this type of equipment. So what is it like being there at the end? Is there anything to look forward to?
Thanks
Oh, something better will come along one of these days. Even though right at the moment that doesn't seem possible. Progress doesn't sleep--and neither does Alon Wolf. I've been at this point before, kiddo. Or at least I've thought I was. Hell, I thought I was the MBL 101 X-Treme no more than six or so months ago. BUT, for the moment, it feels wonderful to hear a stereo system that is this friggin' marvelous.
I cannot seem to understand reviewers statements like "best ... ever" even if the statement is personal, at this price range and level of very serious competition, the only ethical path for such a statement is a comparative audition setting, with not one, but several reviewers giving their thought. I believe Magico is very good but the hype that such statements create is dangerous and misleading, one has to be more precise. It surprises me how fast magazines disregard or forget other equipment which is not in a 6 month radar, are you able to discuss the Acapella's in the same price range? or the Kharma Exquisite Reference 1? Or the Avantgarde's, or the Hansen King's, or Von Schwikert's vr9se's, not to mention the reference models from this companies, like the Magico's Reference, the Kharma Grand Exquisites, Acapella Triollon's, Maarten Coltrane Supreme's... All this companies also aim at the highest standard, employ cutting edge technology and their products produce sound worthy of being called reference. The reviewers responsability should be the comparative explanation of the reference sound rather than biasing bluntly towards the coldest beer in the kitchens fridge. Reviewers have the power of making or destroying, im sure the awareness is always there....
I cannot seem to understand reviewers statements like "best ... ever" even if the statement is personal, at this price range and level of very serious competition, the only ethical path for such a statement is a comparative audition setting, with not one, but several reviewers giving their thought. I believe Magico is very good but the hype that such statements create is dangerous and misleading, one has to be more precise. It surprises me how fast magazines disregard or forget other equipment which is not in a 6 month radar, are you able to discuss the Acapella's in the same price range? or the Kharma Exquisite Reference 1? Or the Avantgarde's, or the Hansen King's, or Von Schwikert's vr9se's, not to mention the reference models from this companies, like the Magico's Reference, the Kharma Grand Exquisites, Acapella Triollon's, Maarten Coltrane Supreme's... All this companies also aim at the highest standard, employ cutting edge technology and their products produce sound worthy of being called reference. The reviewers responsability should be the comparative explanation of the reference sound rather than biasing bluntly towards the coldest beer in the kitchens fridge. Reviewers have the power of making or destroying, im sure the awareness is always there....
Jon,
Well then...let be the first to exclaim: wow. Wonder beggars what Mr Wolf can do with an updated M6 or his montser Horn. The mans on to something. JL
I am prepared to say that the M5 is, overall, the best loudspeaker I've ever heard.
Wow!
I'd better start putting garlic on my driveway, in case my Magico dealer decides to show up with a pair of M5s for me to try at home for a few days.
Hopefully, they will sound lousy with the 610Ts, otherwise I'm going to be in real trouble.
<<Hopefully, they will sound lousy with the 610Ts>>
Don't get your hopes up!
"I am prepared to say that the M5 is, overall, the best loudspeaker I've ever heard. Is that unequivocal enough?" Yes indeed! Finally, we do not have to read between the lines. Thanks. It was certainly the best thing I have ever heard at CES or anywhere else, but I never heard the big MBL or the Symposium.
Hi JV, first time poster on this forum (but 30 year subscriber to TAS!). I've been following several of your threads, and appreciate your willingness to engage enthusiastically in this less controlled, but also very rewarding conversation with your audience.
I'm wondering about a specific instance of the age-old question of priorities in an audio system - could you use the M5s in conjunction with a "budget" high end amp like, say, the JC-1s, and still get outstanding results? I'm sure it hasn't escaped your attention that a pair of Soulution 700s more than doubles the cost of the total, ahem, solution, a significant consideration even for those of us who are lucky enough to even consider a pair of speakers more expensive than most Mercedes. Perhaps you'll get a chance to do an experiment like this and report back? I've got visions of putting together a system around a music server, Berkeley Audio Designs AlphaDAC, reasonably priced amps, and M5s or MAXX3s, that might just outperform anything we could have envisioned 4 years ago ...
Scott,
You're quite correct: The Soulution 700/720/740 combo costs more than twice as much as the M5s. Even the much more reasonably priced ARC 610T/Reference 3/Reference CD 8/PH 7 combo is still two-thirds the price of an M5. (I hesitate to tell you how much the Tara Labs Omega Gold and Zero Black cabling and interconnect I use add to the price, not to mention the cost of the analog front end.) This is a very, very rich person's stereo system, no doubt.
I cannot try the Parasound JC-1 experiment as I don't have JC-1s, but what I can do is try a Pass Labs X350.5--and I will. Of course, you can't bi-amp with a single X350.5, although you can bi-wire. Still, even a couple of X350.5s would only be one-eighth the price of a Soulution 700. Stay tuned and I'll let you know how this works out.
Jon
"I'm wondering about a specific instance of the age-old question of priorities in an audio system - could you use the M5s in conjunction with a "budget" high end amp like, say, the JC-1s, and still get outstanding results?"
ScottB
Hi Scott,
My two cents worth is this:
Having worked on the floor for a high-end dealer for four years and been fortunate in assembling a number or excellent systems for clients in that time, my experience in dealing with very revealing and transparent speakers - as the Magico's no doubt are - is that the variables effecting the sonic and musical result come into play more than with almost any other component.
I've had clients who have often fallen in love with a speaker only to find its ultimate performance compromised by their room's dimensions or construction, or by the fact that they are often unable (financially speaking) or unwilling (for whatever reason) to feed it with electronics of commensurate quality.
While I'n not a blinkered advocate for a "source-first" system (or worse, a proportionate spending regime), I personally find it disappointing to hear a speaker capable of greatness hampered by electronics that cannot do it justice either from an electrical point-of-view (lack of adequate current delivery being one of the more frequent) or sonic point of view (the speaker reveals just how compromised the electronics really are).
For me there are two factors in play here - quantity and quality. A state-of-the-art transducer with vanishingly low levels of distortion and a linear frequency response of 20 to 20+ (real world) will be capable of sounding transparent to the source in its reproduction of nearly all the sonic spectrum. Partnered with a big, loud amp (you know who they are...) you'll get a tremendous amount of sonic quantity for your money. But often this has nothing to do with a system's quality - its ability to reproduce the emotional/psychological/spiritual intent of the performers and engineers. While the former is almost always present, in a mismatched system, the latter seldom is. The former produces sound, the latter music. I know it sound cliche to say it, but I've had customers part with an awful lot of money in some cases where the musical gestalt was completely dissonant with the purchase price. (That they were happy, is of course, the only point here.)
Having said that, I'm still pleasantly surprised how often modestly-priced but well-matched components can fool the mind and heart into producing an emotional response far beyond the considerations of the price of admission. It's just that it's very seldom ever been with inadequate amplification feeding state-of-the-art transducers.
Please note I've never heard the Parasound (nor the Magico's, but this will change later in the year), so my comments are only intended to be taken in the context of general advice.
By the way, Art Dudley wrote an interesting article on system priorities here: http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/system_building_rules151and_how_to_break_them/
Cheers to you
heya, first time poster too.
interesting questions Scott. May I add a question: how much is to gain with biamping, that alone has quite an impact on the costs.
And who would have thought that the price of a maxx3 would ever sound like a bargain: all that milling, glueing, layered painting. Although I dont question the M5s sound qualities Jonathan kindly shares with us, but, from here, I cant see how the making of one is harder or more expensive than a Maxx.
Jonathan, is this a subject you can see yourself covering in your review or outside of it? I think there is alot of speculation and misunderstanding out there, many of us just dont have a clue of what it takes to make such a thing. It would be great if someone (like you) would shed some educated light onto it so we dont have to speculate, fight and disagree over pricing or value in all those forums. this is not to start another 'too expensive' discussion but respectfully asking what goes into them for the price of admission because, although expensive too, that replationship seems a little more clear to me with wilson speakers.
cheers
oberkorn, Some of the answers lies in your question. ...” milling, glueing, layered painting”… Wilson has put much efforts into a “facade”. Developing what is essentially, IMO, some sort of “modern sculpture”. None of these costly elements have anything to do with sound reproduction. BUT, as expensive as a good paint job on HDF is, it is still, quite a bit cheaper then solid machined aluminum plates, layered birch ply expensive drivers or XO parts. Magico has invested a lot in what is essential to sound quality as oppose to a “fashion statement”. BTW, when you stand close to these products, it is easier to see where the money has gone to. All it take is one look at the drivers in both speakers to see who is spending more on what.
oberkorn,
Roy is correct (as he usually is) about the comparative cost, difficulty, and complexity of manufacturing an M5. I will have a great deal to say about this when I review the speaker. This isn't to say that certain other high-quality loudspeakers are simply "thrown together" from parts lying around a garage or warehouse. I've seen an MBL 101 X-Treme being assembled and, believe me, it is virtually hand-made. So is Symposium Acoustic's Panorama--right down to the hand-assembly of its ribbon drivers. What really separates the Magicos (and some of these others) from run-of-the-mill isn't just the parts cost (which truly are staggering with the M5s) or the complexity of their design and manufacture (ditto); it is also the thinking that has gone into the choice of parts, design, and manufacture and the standards of performance by which Alon and Yair conceptualize, test, and judge what they make. Indeed, it is the thinking and the standards that end up dictating the price. When you simply won't settle for anything less than the performance you've designed for, then costs increase exponentially because almost every part has to be specially made to your precise specifications, and when virtually everything is a made-to-exacting-order part, economies of scale go out the window.
Jon
JV,
Thanks much for the response, and I think the Pass will be a perfect experiment. I look forward to the results.
niner, I agree with many of your observations. And yet, having owned at least a dozen high-end speakers through the years, from Dalquist to MBL, and many different partnering electronics as well, there is no doubt in my mind that the speaker still dominates the overall ability of a system to communicate various aspects of musical quality. This I find to be particularly true in recent years, with the proliferation of high-powered, high-current amps of pretty good quality, from Parasound, Pass, McIntosh, and many others. Wilson used to make a point of demoing their speakers with Parasound amps, just to reinforce the primacy of speaker design. Also, you're right about current delivery being critical, as most high-end speaker designers don't design their speakers to present nice, high, non-reactive impedance loads to the amp!
Hey Jonathan,
Why haven't we seen a full review in TAS of the Symposium Speakers yet been waiting for since they got the Golden Ear
Thanks
Bob,
Well, I don't have the Symposium Acoustic Panoramas anymore. As you will recall, the pair I gave the Golden Ear to was a prototype (for which I was royally tarred and feathered by a couple of guys on this Web site). Since then, Peter Bizlewicz has showed a gorgeous finished/production version at RMAF. As good as the Pan sounded at the show--and it sounded good enough to win by Best of Show award--I haven't heard it in my room and, at the moment, fitting Pans into a space filled with M5s isn't do-able. (Moreover, I'm not all that eager to send the M5s packing. In fact, there could be a fire or a burglary or some kind of, oh, accident in the near future that will prevent me from EVER returning the M5s.) Some day down the road, I hope to revisit the Pans--just not right now.
Jon
In fact, there could be a fire or a burglary or some kind of, oh, accident in the near future that will prevent me from EVER returning the M5s
Is Jon's wallet about to receive a fatal blow ? :)
More like Alon Wolf's wallet.
Hi Jon,
I don't think I have posted here before so greetings TAS devotees. Your remark..."more like Alon Wolf's wallet.", flippant as it may be, I find very troubling. This isn't the first time my suspicions have been confirmed regarding the back scratching that goes on between audio manufacturers and reviewers. Over-the-top positive reviews in exchange for either free or greatly reduced pricing of reviewed components. I have no doubt that the Magico speakers are wonderful but this sort of candor takes the edge of it off for me.
Thanks for allowing me to post here and I apologize up front for being so direct but it's something I have been troubled by since Julian Hirsch was a pup.
So much music...so little time.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...
So much music...so little time.
es347, you might be pushing your luck, although your post merits a forthright response. What Jonathan and other reviewers pay for equipment is up to the manufacturers and distributors and is not our business. It is, however, the business of their editors and publishers to know what goes on. What troubles me more than reviewer accommodation pricing is when a reviewer keeps some audio gear for much longer than the review period on "permanent loan," sometimes without the knowledge or approval of the manufacturer. That, I feel, is theft.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
Brian,
Not sure what you mean by pushing my luck...loss of posting rights I suppose. If so, fair enough because my beef is a legitimate one and shared by many. I personally know a reviewer who paid roughly 16% of the msrp for a very expensive piece of reviewed gear and the opinions expressed in his published review was over-the-top positive. Would the review have been as positive had he not gotten the great purchase price? Perhaps, but I find it troubling and no one can tell me the case I cite is an isolated one. Your comment about reviewers hanging onto gear on a semi-permanent basis is also well documented. Most know the story of a prominent reviewer who, alledgedly, still has a $100K+ TT in his possession which, alledgedly, was reviewed quite a long time ago.
I happen to be as passionate about this hobby as one can get but can still think clearly enough to not be led down purchase paths via manipulaton. Audio journalism is rife with potential conflicts of interest and as such, hobbyists need to be vigilent when reading equipment reviews and selective about whose advice they choose to accept as gospel. Thanks for your reply. If you need to remove me from the database that's fine. Happy listening.
So much music...so little time.
I've got a friend in Jersey...
Heh-heh-heh!
I will be trying the Audio Research electronics with the M5s for the first time this week. I won't bi-amp or bi-wire, of course, but single-wiring is no problem. (Magico supplies jumpers--made by MIT, no less!--with every M5, to connect the two sets of binding posts for single-wiring.)
Any chance of getting the M5 blogto merge to the M5 forum?
I'm not sure how one would do this. I suppose I could cut and paste the blog posts into this thread.
Personally, I very much like the M5, and would love to own a pair should I ever be able to afford it. And yes, the rest of the system would be commensurate with the needs of the M5. But I must admit reading the reviews/threads regarding this is somewhat amusing considering the fact the US economy is on the brink of collapse and we are talking like nothing is happening. Some peoples' houses are not worth what the M5's are yet it seems lost on some (perhaps most) that these speakers are on par with luxury cars, more actually if you factor in the room needed and the equipment to run it.
Does this mean I think the M5 is a waste or not worth it? No. In fact, I am sure (and I know a fair bit about CNC machining so I can appreciate the front baffle) it is superlative in every way but it is hard to hear clearly the music and subtle nuances when your stomach is growling because you cannot afford food. I suppose you could rationalize that if you are interested in this hobby you must have some means but the number who were and now are none is suprising, and considering most wealth is tied up in investments the very audience for gear like this is dwindling fast.
I think the audio world is going to take a real hit in the next year or so and it might include Magico. You do not make something the market cannot buy and it would be a real loss to see the M5 go but a reality nevertheless.
There also are people for whom an M5 would be cheap. I know a guy who doesn't think twice about dropping $80k on a car. He owns 5-6 of them. To me, that's insane. But if I told some folks I spent $3k on a turntable and arm, they would look at me like In was crazy. And then I say, "Yeah, but the original retail was $10k!" It's all relative. Although I don't doubt that companies that areon the bubble will go under this year, Magico seems to have created and sustained a hot buzz around their speakers. I spent $15,000 (plus interest) on a new car once. After 7 years, it was towed away with more repair work needed than the car was worth. If I spent the same amount (rounded up) on the V2s or V3s, I bet I'd get a lot more mileage out of them.
I use to manage a sportsfishing resort for 9 years. I have met the type who drop $200K on a car without blinking. Many of the clients who came are not so endowed today.
Sure, there will always be the wealthy, or well heeded, or those willing to spend whatever it takes to get what they want. But the facts are: the economy is the worst it has been since the depression. Unless you have money in the bank, in large reserve, this speaker and many like it are going to sit idle, and from an audiophile perspective, a total waste. Waste of time, research and enjoyment. I am sure no one is seriously thinking of purchasing the M5 if it means keeping a roof over their head or ensuring they eat. Granted these are not worries of the jet set but a metaphor.
Your $15K car got you to work, to the hospital, to home..... I do not see the equal to speakers here. Totally different universes, let alone worlds for comparison. When you are hungry a good audio system means nothing.
Blackfly,
This thread is about the Magico M5. I'm reporting on the way it sounds because it is my job to report on the way it sounds and because it is a genuine pleasure to hear such a wonderfully engineered and wonderful sounding product. That I could not come close to affording it under the best of economic circumstances is beside these points. So, I'm afraid, is the fact that far fewer people who might have been able to purchase an M5 will do so in the worst economic circumstances most of us have seen in our lifetimes. Though its future (along with that of the entire high end) may be affected by hard times, Magico did not cause them. It is not taking food from anyone's mouth or roofs from over anyone's head. It is what it is: A company that makes and markets superbly engineered, beautifully crafted, very expensive, state-of-the-art, ultra-high-end dynamic loudspeakers. Today's economy--and the dreadful financial shape that so many of us find ourselves in--does not change the fact that the M5 is a truly great loudspeaker and a truly praiseworthy accomplishment. It will remain that even if no one buys a single one.
Jon