Length of Interconnects
ddetaey -- Fri, 09/19/2008 - 13:48
Looking at the post - Wilson X-2 Installation in RH's house - I have noticed the long cables coming from the back of the room connecting to the Spectral DMA-360 power amps.
Robert also mentioned somewhere in another post that using the MIT Oracle cables is a must for bringing out the best of the Spectrals.
Whilst I am pursuing to buy some MIT Magnum MA cables, MIT Cables advises strongly not to go over 3m lengths for a (balanced) interconnect, and if required, use longer speaker cables in stead.
Again looking at Robert's setup whilst evaluating the X-2's, I would like to find out if the limitation imposed by MIT is due to the fact they can not achieve the same sonic qualities for an extreme high end quality cable such as the Oracles (which I have no problem whatsoever to believe)
with longer lenghts, or if this is true for cables of good cables such as MIT Magnum MA, Kimber Select 1030, Nordost Valhalla's etc..
Your opinions are appreciated.
Dirk
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What forces you to have long interconnects?
CEO and Editorial Director, Nextscreen LLC
My pre-amp is located together with my home cinema gear, about 3m away from the left speaker and 6-7m away from the right speaker.
As my speaker cables (MIT Magnum) have a length of 3m, I needed to place my poweramp between the speakers.
I know this is not ideal, but I have seen many setups at dealers and hifishows where long interconnects where used in a same kind of setup.
I am therefore a little bit surprised to find out that a top manufacturer of audio cables is strongly recommending otherwise.
Looking forward to your further comments
Dirk
I have my equipment rack at the back of the room and the power amplifiers on the floor, which requires long interconnects. I haven't tried short interconnects in this system, but my long-term experience suggests that the long interconnects/short speaker cables approach is preferable to short interconnects and long speaker cables. I've asked this question of a number of high-end cable designers and the general consensus is that long interconnects and short speaker cables are better. (One designer jokingly replied "I think everyone should use long interconnects and long speaker cables.")
I haven't asked MIT about this, but they had no problem supplying the lengths needed for my system. I've also seen many, many systems at shows with this arrangement. The system you see in the photos is the best-sounding hi-fi system I've heard—in my home, at a show, at a dealer, or in someone's home.
Long runs of balanced interconnects should be fine---many (most?) recording studios use them between their sound rooms.
(My understanding is that balanced interconnects were designed for this application. In any case, they certainly work well in it. Long runs---no hum).
There are some mono amp designers who suggest the shorter the speaker cable length, the better, even going so far as to suggest that the shorter the run to the speaker, the less the quality of the cable (within certain limits) matters.
I don't know what the story is with MIT balanced cables and why they suggest a maximum of 3 meters. Maybe others can comment on them?
Jim
Balanced or not, even the best interconnecs will steal some freshness/attack from the system when used like this. Not as much as long speakercables would, but still. Studio-guys does not know too much about loss through cabling, forget them.
I ended up moving my stuff to the "speaker-wall" to avoid loss. As long as it is remoted I can still play my stuff, just have to call someone to change the disc for me now & then:P
Nordost advises that the optimum length for their cables is 4 meters. This length is obviously also optimum for Nordost's bank balance :)
I am using a 5 meter balanced Transparent Ref XL between preamp and amps, and a 1m Odin between the amps and the speakers. FWIW, I also agree that it is better to have long interconnects vs long speaker cables.
From Nordost's web site FAQ:
Question:
Should I use long interconnects and very short speaker cables?
Answer:
With Nordost cables this is not a problem. However because interconnects are carrying very low current, line-level signals, it makes sense to keep interconnects relatively short – that is from 1m to 2m, if possible. With speaker cables where voltage and current are typically much higher, the length of speaker cable is not as critical unless you are using an old fashioned network or high capacitance cable which will filter away most of the audio signal and slow down the transient detail.
This coincides with my own experience. In my system, I prefer 1m interconnects with 4.5m speaker cables.
Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
4,5m speakercables definetly robs your system for quite a bit of dynamic power. The main enemy here is cable resistance. The loss here is wery much underrated by most audio-designers. Not that much a problem for tubes/horn-combos as for powerful transistor amps on multiway speakers. Monoblocks w. short thick solicore reduces loss to a minimum.
Hi unfairlane,
I think that depends greatly on the particular cables.
In my own comparisons with shorter versions of the same cables, there was no detectable loss of anything.
Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Hi Barry!
Off course; the auditionable effect will be limited by the equipment.
Speakercables must be seen as a part of the amps powercircuit, and if we talk transistor it`s all about keeping resistance as low as possible. Unfornately most speakerdesigners underestimate this too. Passive filters needs to be dimensioned with huge powerpeaks in mind, capable of handling lightningstrikes w.o. compressing the signal. And internal wiruing is the speakers blood-weins.
After spending years on optimizing/(re-)designing dynamic speakers I`ve tested out quite a few things far beond the "limits" and back, including speaker wiring. The only cable-manufacturer I`ve seen that comes close to the thruth is Virtual Dynamics. In my systen I`ve ended up running 2x4awg solid for bottom end, 2x8awg for mid and 2x10awg to the top section. But then my whole system is custom-built, from custom solid powercables to custom thick-tread poweramp trafos, huge powerways & my own asymetric no absorbers 1.order 4-way speakers.
I once asked a cable manufacturer whether it's better to use short interconnects and long speaker cables, or long interconnects and short speaker cables. He replied jokingly "I think everyone should use long interconnects and long speaker cables."
Keep in mind that your speakers are wired in series at the end of the speaker cable, and will have an impedance of (typically) 4-8 ohms. This means that your speaker cables don't necessarily need to be extremely heavy in order to have a negligible impact in audio performance (of course, what one considers negligible may vary from person to person). Here's an interesting read from a former speaker designer for McIntosh, with a chart for AWG recommendations based on speaker impedance and cable run:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire.htm
For a high end enthusiast, you'd probably want to go a couple steps up in thickness, but it provides a reasonable baseline for many.
Virtual Dynamics cables. That is not the same company here is it? http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384099
Pierre at Mapleshade preaches that short interconnects and at least 8-foot cables are the way to go.