How to assess sound quality without an audition?

Boomzilla -- Sun, 09/27/2009 - 08:45

My old system was powered by a Yamaha RX-V7620 receiver (yeah, I know it's supposed to be cheap, but just listen...). I found a Yamaha RX-V2200 receiver on the local Craigslist and bought it. The 2200 is the same vintage as my 620, but is supposed to have significantly more power. To my mind, this should be a good thing.

So I hook up the 2200, and (surprise) the sound quality isn't as good as the lower-powered 620. The bass is woolier, the dynamics aren't as good on the remainder of the spectrum, and the treble isn't as sweet. This, by the way, IS an apples-to-apples comparison, as I went through the entire set-up menu to verify that every option was configured identically AND I waited an equivalent amount of time for everything to warm-up. Since I was listening in straight stereo, there wasn't much to mess up.

So now my question - WHY? One would think that with an identical vintage product from an identical manufacturer using identical settings the sound would be virtually indistinguishable. Alas - not so.

This puts a serious limitation on selecting replacement electronics. If I can't audition the item in my home (almost always the case) and I can't rely on a consistent "sound" within a manufacturer's product line, then how can I predict how the equipment will work unless I buy and try it?

My long-suffering better half won't be up for a long series of buy and sell until I find a synergistic match. My ears, however, will tolerate nothing less than that elusive synergy. I've also found through experience that brand, price, and reviews do not necessarily predict performance in my system either. The little-noticed and dismissively low-priced Yamaha 620 provided every bit as good a sound in my living room as my previous Classe SSP-30 & Bryston 3B combination. Few will believe it, but it is absolutely true.

So my second question is: Is there ANY way to reliably predict how a given component will sound in a system without actual home audition? If not, I believe that my best option is to select the local dealer with the largest selection of differently-branded demo equipment and promise a sale if I can take each and every viable item home for an audition first. If anyone has any better ideas, I'm open to suggestions. Thanks!

Boomzilla

Boomzilla -- Sun, 09/27/2009 - 13:33

Yet another option just sprouted from my goofy noodle - How about using the AV-receiver preamp section only and adding a muscular power amp to better control the speakers? Of course, this brings up the question - how good is the preamp section of the AV-receiver, and is the unhappy sound I'm hearing from the power amp or preamp section of the AVR?

One would think that the power amp section of the AVR, being the most expensive to produce, would be where the manufacturer would skimp on quality. That being the case, it would make sense to utilize the AVR amplifier sections only where sound quality matters the least (effects channels, and possibly the center) and to use an outboard, dedicated power amp for music only.

Has anyone tried this approach? How did the AVR pre-outs sound? I'll quit posting unless someone wants to comment - no sense rambling...

A good sense of humor makes it ALL sound better!

Steven Stone -- Tue, 09/29/2009 - 16:56

<<So my second question is: Is there ANY way to reliably predict how a given component will sound in a system without actual home audition? If not, I believe that my best option is to select the local dealer with the largest selection of differently-branded demo equipment and promise a sale if I can take each and every viable item home for an audition first. If anyone has any better ideas, I'm open to suggestions.>>

I wish I could give you another answer, but No, there is no reliable way to predict how a component will sound in a system. If there were my job would be WAY too easy :)
If you are near a good dealer I would recommend using the try and then buy method.

Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications

Boomzilla -- Tue, 09/29/2009 - 18:52

Thanks, Steven - I guess I already knew the answer but was hoping against hope that I was wrong. Experimentation, here I come...

My first experiment will be to get my McIntosh power amp back from the authorized repair shop and try running it with the pre-outs of the Yamaha AVR. That should answer the question of whether the AVR's sonic nastiness is from the pre section, power section, or both.

If worst comes to worst, I've found a dealer who handles NAD, Rotel, and Audio Research who is willing to allow in-home auditions over extended time periods. I'm afraid that the Audio Research may bedevil my budget but charm my ears. Time will tell.

Boomzilla

Steven Stone -- Tue, 09/29/2009 - 23:19

I'm glad you have a local dealer who handles several lines that appeal to you.

I think your "battle plan" makes good sense - you may find that the McIntosh amp will work great, but if not you might want to keep the amp and try a different preamp - both NAD and Rotel have several new models that may be perfect for you, and if not, there's always Audio research :)

Frankly, I very rarely met anyone who regretted buying and owning a piece of Audio Research gear...

Boomzilla -- Wed, 09/30/2009 - 04:48

Back in the '70s, Audio Research had a reputation for being trouble-prone and difficult to get service for. Have those problems been resolved?

Cemil Gandur -- Wed, 09/30/2009 - 06:54

I've used an LS2B preamp for about 10 years without a hitch. My Ref 3/610T are also running perfectly, but they are a little over one year - so anything else would not be acceptable. I heard that the previous Ref600 was problematic because of the tube arrangement which caused the amp to overheat. In general, ARC products are now very well built, so should run properly without any issues.

Boomzilla -- Wed, 09/30/2009 - 07:44

Thanks, Zeb - that's good to know. The local Audio Research dealer is a bit over eager, but I can deal with that.

The salesman tried to tell me that my Thiel speakers weren't what they recommended, that the Thiels would be particularly unsuitable to my McIntosh power amp, that the Magneplanar 1.6 or JM-Lab FOCAL speakers would be better than my Thiels, that no AV preamp would sound as good as a straight analog stereo preamp, that no integrated amp (even if all analog) would sound as good as pre-power separates, and that no stereo power amp would sound as good as individual channel mono amplifiers.

That is a LOT of generalizations. Taken as generalizations, there may be some truth in them, but exceptions always abound. I'm not certain that the salesman didn't mistake me for a rich doctor or lawyer who had loads of cash and little technical knowledge of the audio field. I didn't disabuse him of his impression because I wanted to see what he'd say. Their ultimate recommendation was to set up a straight analog stereo system with no surround capability at all and use that stereo for both music & movies. Their particular recommendations were: Wadia CD player with an Audio Research preamp and a pair of Audio Research mono amps driving either Maggies or some other dynamic speaker (that they sold).

Although I don't doubt that their recommended system would sound good, I'm not yet convinced that I can't do as well (or better) using some of my existing equipment. I'll just have to experiment.

Boomzilla

Steven Stone -- Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:08

You are wise to be leery of the salesman's generalizations. IMHO he is wrong on all counts.

His equipment suggestions are very safe,but also VERY expensive.

I would avail myself of his resources, but not his "knowledge." :)

Robert Harley -- Wed, 09/30/2009 - 13:28

Jonathan Valin and I both have extensive experience living with Audio Research products (I had the Reference 600 and Reference 600 Mk.II for several years) and we've had no problems. The pair of Reference 600s, with a total of 68 tubes (most of them 6550s), was a room heater.

Boomzilla -- Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:17

Thanks to all of you whom have vouched for the reliability and quality of Audio Research equipment. Should I need new components (yet to be determined), I'll certainly place that brand on my "to be auditioned" list.

My gut feeling is that the best-quality items that I currently own are my Thiel loudspeakers (that DO work well in my room) and maybe my McIntosh power amp (yet to be auditioned). My audio/video sources are set in stone until newer technology becomes available, so my only questionable item is the preamp/surround sound amplification. These duties, currently performed by my AVR, will be reviewed in due time.

Thanks to all of you whom have been generous enough to respond. I'll update the posting when the power amp gets back.

Boomzilla