Grand Veena confusion
jack d ii -- Thu, 01/01/2009 - 16:38
Now I am confused. After reading HP's enthusiastic review of the Grand Veena I was all set to buy one to replace my Dunlavy SC IVs. Then the rest of the staff wasn't especially complimentary in an earlier group of posts. Then in the Buyer's Guide issue it is passed over in favor of the Revel F52 and the B&W 803D. Next, in the product of the year awards (issue 189) tas went from $3,700. to $12,000. neatly bracketing the Grand Veena's price with out mention of any speaker. Big gap for no recommendation. What's a poor boy to think?
Dazed and Confused. Jack D II
You should audition the Grand Veena yourself and decide if it's the best loudspeaker in the price category for you.
Ah, RH.... isn't it exactly the point of TAS to provide us a resource we lack? In my case, I have neither the time or accessibility to the kind of gear I'd love to hear. For instance, there isn't a Ref 3a or Vandersteen or BAT (and on and on) dealer within hundreds of miles of me. (Not to mention that those in existance are often either inept or elitist audio snobs and I dislike dealing with either.) So we rely on your magazine, giving it the faith and respect it has earned over many years, to provide us knowledge we cannot ourselves attain. We readers trust that you, having listened to much of the best of what there is to hear, have become more educated, better trained, and have gained the good judgement to help us separate the wheat from the chaff.
With all due respect, I find your response a bit pat. Without presuming to speak for jack d ii, I suspect he may also lack the resources to listen to the universe of gear that you and the TAS staff enjoy. I think you owe it to your readers to provide context for the products you review. Especially in a case such as this. Here we have HP speaking down from the mountain top speaking the praises of the Grand Veena over multiple issues (and lot leastly, its price to performance ratio which MUST be foremost in the minds of we who must actually pay), but not a word from the rest of the staff (until the threads that jack d ii mentions), or subsequent inclusion in the 'best of' issues....except HP's own editors choice.
This reader can only conclude the Grand Veena to be an anolomy that struck a note with HP and HP only.
PS.
After HP's glowing review of of the Grand Veena and corrosponding with him and Tosh Goka, I purchased them without hearing them. I do not regret that choice. And it isn't the first time.... years ago, I purchased a Sumiko Talisman S cartridge based on his review (and its 'benchmark' price to performance ratio).
JNS is correct about not having access to dealers who handle what I have been interested in. Thanks to you, Robert H., I bought Vortex Screens by mail order and enjoyed them for years. My Dunlavy SC IVs were highly regarded by all and I got a used pair reasonably. I relied on Robert Green's enthusiastic endorsement of Marsh Sound Design's A400 (a GREAT value), Chris's Nottingham 294 'table and arm and the SuperNova phono preamp (both good choices) and Paul Seydor's recommendation of the Dynavector 17D3 (also a fine choice). It's not unreasonable to rely on people whose integrity you trust who make a living critically listening to equipment. I'm 70 and dont hear like I used to but have a great dedicated listening room and can hear very well in it. What I dont have is the time to travel widely to find what I MIGHT be interested in. What has bothered me about the Grand Veena is it's omission from categories where I would certainly expect it given HP's terrific recommendation.
As a longtime subscriber it's not too hard to get a line on your individual likes and dislikes. I learn to read between the lines somewhat. Since I cant travel all over to listen, your comparative descriptions are instructive and I rely on them.
Anyway, thanks for the use of the hall.
Jack D II
Jack D II
If I am not mistaken in addition to the Grand Veena- none of the following are in the Buyers Guide- Hansen King, Scaena 14.2, Nordost Odin, or EMM CD Player - and among them are 2008 Golden Ear Award winners and Editor's Choice award winners - components hp has written about, and said are among the best , but they are "MIA"-
What gives ?
Dear Mr. Harley, I think that its precedent reply is disarming: I know well that ours ears are the final judge before purchasing, but if its thesis were true because I would have to then read TAS instead of a poster advertising?
The old TAS used the inter-commentary with regard to an interesting component (or such to generate controversy).
If HP says the graand veena are exceptional loudspeakers for the price and the rest of the staff skims over neatly on these loudspeakers, this determines an alarming dichotomy/separation between the founder of the magazine and the actual staff.
In definitive: or the HP's discrimination abilities are gotten worse, or the magazine goes towards another direction and then the readers would have to be informed.
PS: sorry for my bad english.
Fellas,
None of this is as confusing or borderline sinister as you guys are making it out to be. Harry has his own slot in the magazine, befitting his founder's status, and his own EC list. He has lived with the equipment he recommends; we (for the most part) have not lived with the equipment Pearson recommends. Where the Editors' Choice list that Robert, Neil, I, and the rest of the TAS staffers compile is consensually agreed upon after much discussion, Harry's list is entirely his own. We generally do not duplicate items from Pearson's list on our EC list unless several of us have actually auditioned them in our own systems; as a matter of principle we simply don't recommend products that several of us haven't heard and extolled. (BTW, the exact same thing is true of Harry's list. You don't see, say, the Magico Mini IIs or the Audio Research 610Ts on HP's list not because they are unworthy but because he hasn't heard them in his system, and like us Pearson doesn't recommend things he hasn't heard.) In those instances where we have heard and reviewed products that HP puts on his own EC list, we include them in our EC list (the Tri-Planar and Graham Phantom tonearms and the Goldfinger v2 phono cartridge, for examples),
On the question of the specific items you've mentioned, none of us has heard the Grand Veena outside of shows, and it has not sounded spectacular at shows. Harry has heard the Grand Veenas in his home for a year or two and recommends them highly. (BTW, citing the thread in which all of us picked the Sonus Faber Strads over the Grand Veenas is a little misleading out of context; the Strads are $40k loudspeakers.) The same circumstances apply to the Hansen loudspeaker, which, once again, did not wow any of us at shows (up until RMAF) and the Scaena speakers, which until this year's RMAF have not shined under trade-show conditions (something Pearson himself allowed for in his report on the Scaenas).
None of this means that HP has lost his touch or is out of touch or that we don't trust his judgment anymore or vice versa. It simply means that we recommend the best of what we've heard, and he does the same, and when the stars align and we've all heard the same things, all of us recommend them in our respective EC lists. As for Products of the Year...cut us some slack. The Zanden 1200 MkII phonostage, the Clearaudio Statement, the c-j ART III, the VTL Siegfrieds are all on HP's list and were all 2008 Product of the Year Award winners. We picked them for the same reason that we picked our other winners: a majority of the editorial staff agreed upon the choices based on our own experience with the items and reviews in the magazines (most certainly including Harry's).
On the question of buying stuff on the basis of reviews...although I understand the frustration of not being able to audition items without, in some cases, traveling to a distant audio store (or an even-more-distant trade show), I still don't think it is a good idea to make a sizable purchase based SOLELY on a review. For one thing, although the item may, indeed, sound swell, you don't know how much "sweller" another similiar item might sound. For another, you don't know how that item fits your system, your music, your listening biases unless you hear it with the rest of your gear.
JV
JV,
Thank you for clearing that up for me. Very recently a dealer for the Grand Veena has been established only 2 hours from me. Now that is close enough for me to drive and listen which I will certainly do. And with my amp because the GV's midrange runs directly off the amp without the "benefit" of a crossover. Unfortunately I'm too far for an in home audition. JD II
Jack D II
Dear All,
As a enthusiatic new owner of Grand Veena, I would say that this speaker is everything HP is saying and some more. I have lived with sophias proacs, coincidents, audio notes, revels, jm labs, von schweikerts, none of the specific models I had had is even close imho. And for the sonus fabers, as someone who had lived with great pianos and auditioned cremona and amati extensively, I think there is again no contest. For stradivarius, I cant be sure who the winner would be since I remember good things about it when I heard it some time ago at a dealer, but it should suffice to say that grand veena wont be embrassed in no respect if an a/b comparison should be made.
People should comment more deliberately.
Regards,
Ozan K.
Ist, Turkey
Ozan,
(I know this thread is quite old, now.) I am quite curious, as an owner of the Grand Veena, is it strictly a sit-and-don't-move type of speaker or does it provide good performance standing/sitting throughout the room? Its slanted profile implies that it provides in-phase information only in a very narrow range of listening positions.
RonLev
Philadelphia PA USA
This is the perfect example that one should NOT buy based on just expert reviews. I have auditioned grand veenas 3a several times at different locations even at CES 2009 and they sound average at best. I am glad I didn't blindly purchase it based on HP's superlative awards and praise for this product. Same goes for wilson sophias. The experts help but what you like only your ears can tell. What a big lesson and I am happy I didn't make that mistake.
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