Got my dream system picked out...but the darn room!
-- Mon, 10/05/2009 - 09:24
Hello All,
After months and months of auditioning and thinking and saving, I am finally in position to purchase my dream system. It will consist of the Wilson Sasha WP's, Ayre MX-R, and Ayre KX-R. I am still finalizing my source selections. Per the buzz in the press, I am still doing some research. I really do like the new Boulder that was on the cover of Stereophile a few months ago. (Actually, I think the Sashas sound better with the Boulder monoblocks than with the Ayre, but the damn price tag of those amps!)
Only potential problem: my room is 10x12x8.5. I plan to use absorption to minimize room interactions. I already anticipate some genius coming along and saying I should get a couple of cheap studio monitors or smaller Wilsons. The problem is they do not move my heart. Another genius will say that since I can afford such an expensive system, I should tear down my house and build a new one. Ha! Great idea, but in another life!
What am I going to be missing with a smaller room? How much will I be missing? What can I do to make things better? I have heard that one actually gets better sound with adequate absorption by not having the room as a factor.
Please advise. Thanks!
Well if that is the only room you have and you are not willing to change the equipment, your worries about the system-room interaction are warranted. Clearly on the low frequency end, the worry will be overloading a room of that size with the Sashas so properly placed bass traps ought to help. And then an assortment of wall treatments to address absorption/diffusion functions should also help. With the amount you have invested in your system, i would strongly recommend spending $1-$2K and get a professional acoustician (or call an outfit like Rives Audio) and that way you can get measurements of your system's in-room response and suggested treatments to tame what are likely going to be problematic system-room interactions. I think everyone should adress room treatments but your case sounds like it may especially require it. An easy investment is $50 for Jim Smith's book, "Get Better Sound" (http://www.getbettersound.com/), and you can perhaps pick up a bunch of tips that will help you initially dial-in the system in terms of speaker and equipment placement and then go from there. Hope this helps and good luck.
Hello ALL
my biggest mistake i ever made in audio was buying a 2.2 thiel in a small room with tube amplification....it wasn't a smart experience...due to room interaction and amp and speaker interaction.......i would advise firstly, that your dealer give you a month loaner with your money down..an option to take your check back..see how that works then move on from there....in audio..spending the money.is a small part of the journey.......also a good solution might be looking into some excellent amplification from TACT...since you love the boulder sound you'll love TACT..the benefit with tact is that you have a room correction circuitry with the amplification which can do wonders to your space..just my 2cents.
all the best
In an enclosed 10W X 12L X 8.5H room, acoustics and system setup will be very important and given the money you're considering spending, getting advice from a company like Rives Audio (http://www.rivesaudio.com/services/servframe1.html) should be a first step. A relatively small room is likely to impede placing speakers far enough from the room boundaries to minimize frequency nulls and spikes. I think this will effect full range speakers much more than more limited band width speakers especially when played at "live listening levels". Cardas has a formula for speaker placement that addresses those problems in rectangular rooms (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup), but using that formula with your room size puts the speakers very close to one another.
Another critical factor in obtaining optimum performance from any audio equipment is the "system foundation". During the 2008 RMAF I attended a seminar on system setup & tuning moderated by Roy Gregory, then editor of HiFi+ and now VP marketing, Nordost. RG used three sets of "system foundations" to drive Avalon speakers with identical ancillary equipment to demonstrate just how important speaker setup, resonance control, power conditioning, and coherent cabling are to obtaining good sound from any audio system. The attendees heard a huge difference in audio coherence, articulation, dynamic range, and imaging between the first "system foundation", a modest standard glass & steel audio rack, mixed vendor cabling, and no power conditioning or resonance control; and the last "system foundation", an audio rack employing resonance control, solid power conditioning, and coherent cabling (power, interconnect, speaker) from the same vendor. If you email me I can send you the HiFi+ article describing this in more detail.
Good luck with your audio system.
Len
With a small room like that I'd personally go with Von Schweikert Unifield Model 3...great sound from quite a small speaker.
If possible, I would try to extend/modify the room to increase size. The system you are considering seems fantastic. But with such a small room you may not be getting the best out of your investment. It's a tough situation, but the room makes a huge difference. Too small or too large of a room relative to the type/size of your components is significant to high end audio. Like the other posters it may become over powering in small room. I would also be concerned about the soundstage due to limited speaker placement options. Goodluck. And keep us posted on the room setup. You have started an important topic.
I have heard a couple of "big speaker, small rooms" systems and many DO in fact work well. (The biggest being Infinity IRSV in a 10 x 10 x 9 room!)
There are a couple of points you must accept though:
1) You will get a decent soundstage but not a truly "holographic" one. Center fill and "depth" is usually not an issue, but no matter the acoustic treatments, extreme L/R spatial cues will not go "beyond" the speakers, just "behind them".
2) You will need to sit at least 2ft from the back wall. Otherwise you get the BOOM, likewise, you need to site the spkrs either closer to the front wall or closer to the side wall but not the same distance. (so either 2ft from side and 3 ft from front or vice versa).
3) When in a room this size, every mm makes a difference.
4) Exercise moderation, since you will be listening near-field, moderate volume playback will be the order of the day. In fact that is why in some cases big speakers paradoxically works better than minis. (i.e. whereas a mini needs to be "cranked" to sound "full" in a typical Asian listening room, big speakers could sound full and convincing at soft volume, without sounding quiet.
5) Wilson's WASP setup does not work under such circumstances! My friend had the local Wilson dealer set up his Sophia 2s in 11' x 12' x 9' concrete walled apartment. After a 4 hour set up session, starting with the WASP method, which with full-toeing in, sounds like oversized headphones. They ended up with the sweet spot 1.8 ft from rear wall, speakers 2ft from the side wall and 3ft from the front, with only mild toe-in. The end result is very musical and wouldn't boom unless you are going for LOOOOUUUD.
6) Books or curtains on side walls, abffusors on the centre of the front wall (where "normal folks would mount their LCD tv ;) ) and light carpeting on the floor or rug rear wall (?!) is also helpful.
don't overdo the absorption or you'd have a dead and boring room, unless you have bass traps the size of a closet, all absorption will work at upper mids to treble, buy reducing their level, you end up "increasing" the bass, the very thing you want to avoid! Another friend bought a shedload of ASCs, Roomtunes, Sonex and Auralex — he ended up hoarding enough "treatments" for 6 of his audio buddies' rooms!
7) If you MUST rock out, keep the listening door open to vent the bass.
The local Wilson dealer said in most Asian sized listening rooms (barring those in billion dollar duplexes) Sophia 2's bass output should be more than enough, W/P 7s needed tlc.
I hope that Sasha would not have the elevated 100Hz that all W/Ps had...
Anyway, have fun!
But not treating Sasha as "things" you desire but seeing them as a means of enjoying music the Sophia 2s, or the more "damped" speakers (like V3s? Eidolons?) might fare better under such conditions.
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