Getting the Best When Ripping CD's?
WaWaZat -- Mon, 07/07/2008 - 23:16
Are there any recommendations for treatment or cleaning, de-scratching, etc, CD's when ripping one's entire collection for archival/media server purposes? Before I rip my hundreds of CD's, I'd like to be sure I'm getting the best possible transfer. I've always heard that if a disc isn't heavily soiled, the best way to clean it is by fogging it up w/your breath & wiping with a cotton cloth. What's the hi-fi world's consensus on this??? And what about any discs that may be a little dirtier or have scratches? What about these spinning disc cleaner/scratch removing contraptions that are widely sold?
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If a disc hasn't been abused (obvious surface scratches) you shouldn't need to clean it. The CD's error-correction system is remarkably effective; burst errors of up to 4000 consecutive bits can be completely corrected. This replaces the missing or corrupted data with exactly the same bits that were in the original datastream. This isn't error concealment or interpolation, but complete bit-for-bit correction. A disc has to be in bad shape to result in uncorrectable errors.
In the new issue of TAS (183), I review the UltraBit Platinum CD treatment fluid and found it produced a surprising improvement in sound quality. I haven't tried using UltraBit Platinum when ripping a CD to a server to see if it makes a difference, but it sure does when playing a disc. The maker of UltraBit Platinum claims that the fluid does indeed produce an audible improvement when ripping the CD.
robert_harley6 wrote:If a disc hasn't been abused (obvious surface scratches) you shouldn't need to clean it. The CD's error-correction system is remarkably effective; burst errors of up to 4000 consecutive bits can be completely corrected. This replaces the missing or corrupted data with exactly the same bits that were in the original datastream. This isn't error concealment or interpolation, but complete bit-for-bit correction. A disc has to be in bad shape to result in uncorrectable errors.
In the new issue of TAS (183), I review the UltraBit Platinum CD treatment fluid and found it produced a surprising improvement in sound quality. I haven't tried using UltraBit Platinum when ripping a CD to a server to see if it makes a difference, but it sure does when playing a disc. The maker of UltraBit Platinum claims that the fluid does indeed produce an audible improvement when ripping the CD.I'm so glad you responded Robert! I did read your article about the CD treatment...my next question would have been, "have you tried it for ripping". Any chance on a review for this situation soon?!
I found that article interesting...I am in the CD manufacturing biz.
What about discs that have seen a bit of abuse? Does anyone have any experience w/the CD cleaning machines avail at Best Buy, etc? ...or does anyone know what works best?
To repair scratched discs, use a mild polishing compound designed for automobile paint. Be sure to rub from the inside edge to the outside edge (or vice versa) and not radially.
Inside to outside is radially. You must have meant tangentially. Novus makes excellent plastic polish in several strengths, which I've found useful when the disc is badly marred.
robert_harley6 wrote:To repair scratched discs, use a mild polishing compound designed for automobile paint. Be sure to rub from the inside edge to the outside edge (or vice versa) and not radially.I have a Radio Shack CD Polish & Scratch Remover compound that I have to use on most the Netflix DVD's I receive...using the technique you've described. This DOES work. I ask about the little crank machines because they would be so much more convenient than the hand method. Do you have any experience/knowledge/opinions with these things?
robert_harley6 wrote:If a disc hasn't been abused (obvious surface scratches) you shouldn't need to clean it. The CD's error-correction system is remarkably effective; burst errors of up to 4000 consecutive bits can be completely corrected. This replaces the missing or corrupted data with exactly the same bits that were in the original datastream. This isn't error concealment or interpolation, but complete bit-for-bit correction. A disc has to be in bad shape to result in uncorrectable errors.Trying to get my head around exactly how this error correction works...what does it do if the original stream contains errors, ie a scratch in the disc?
WaWaZat wrote:robert_harley6 wrote:To repair scratched discs, use a mild polishing compound designed for automobile paint. Be sure to rub from the inside edge to the outside edge (or vice versa) and not radially.I have a Radio Shack CD Polish & Scratch Remover compound that I have to use on most the Netflix DVD's I receive...using the technique you've described. This DOES work. I ask about the little crank machines because they would be so much more convenient than the hand method. Do you have any experience/knowledge/opinions with these things?
I have a Scotch (3M) disc cleaner that seems to work well. You spray the disc with their cleaning fluid (isopropyl alcohol and water), and then place it in the "little crank machine" and give'er about twenty turns. It has done a good job so far and has not scratched any discs.
Error correction works by including redundant data in the bitstream, as well as interleaving, a technique that chops up the data, rearranges the blocks on the disc, and then puts the blocks back in the correct order. Interleaving converts long burst errors (which are difficult to correct) into several shorter errors, which can be corrected by figuring out what's missing based on on the redundant data. Error correction is extremely complex in practice.
CD's error correction system can completely correct up to 4000 consecutive missing bits.
To continue this thread -- once you have successfully ripped a CD, how do you subsequently burn one to best effect. RH has stated that copies can sound better than originals. What hardware and software is required to achieve such a result?
You can use the CD-burning function in a music server (I've used the Qsonix) or the CD burner in a PC.
So there are no magic bullets? I wondered if you need to use a pro burner or a special software package to get the great results. As I said, my burns via iTunes don't seem to me to rise to the level of "better than the original."
Is Max (freeware) for the Mac significantly better than the error correcting software in iTunes? I'm sure this depends on the condition of the disc, but is there a technical difference?
Max also offers an option called CD Paranoia. You have to like the name, but is this better still (which I presume is why they offer it -- or it could be paranoia)?
Exact Audio Copy (EAC) http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/overview/features/features-of-... is a free CD ripper that uses very sophisticated error correction for ripping CD's. Minor flaws in the surface of the CD which can cause the laser to mis-read the CD can be successfully and accurately extracted using EAC. It has the ability to reread the damaged portion of a disk up to 80 times during error correction.
I've been using EAC to rip my CD's into my music server for a few years and have never had a complaint. I've been able to rip CDs that were so severely damaged that players would reject them and not play them at all.
I recently was given a CD that a friend gave me because his player rejected it (so did all three of mine). EAC took 58 hours to rip it to a wav file. When I burned it to a CD the sound is flawless!
EAC uses your computer to perform ripping and burning of CDs. Just make sure to configure it for high quality ripping and avoid anything that uses lossy compression.
Yamamurra Churchill used to make a CD treatment oil that I think was made from sharks liver oil. It works very well.It takes the 'edge' off some rather harsh sounding CDs. If you can get it give it a go. I have heard that Walker Audios CD treatment oil works a treat as well.
Robert: I belive you meant that CD cleaning should be done radially but not circumferentially.
Why no mention of the wonderful cleaner "L'Art du Son" which also happens to be HP's favourite?
If a disc is visibly dirty or does not rip properly, I first wash it with a drop of washing-up liquid under the tap (warm water not hot) then dry it by pressing with a clean towel or kitchen roll (not rubbing) and finally spray with a tiny amount of furniture polish which I spread over the disc as a thin coat with my finger (The furniture polish is the 'special' ingredient - don't polish just coat). The only discs that have not been readable after this procedure are those that light is visible through scratches in the back surface of the disc (One disc I seem to remember).
Ripping use Exact Audio Copy (EAC) and AccurateRip.
This works with DVD's too - I have kids and have saved many well used discs.
Use Exact Audio Copy. It's free and it's error correction is the best. The link for the download page is below.
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/resources/download/
EAC was recommended to me by a representative of Linn, who was showing off their new digital stream player. He said that iTunes' error correction doesn't work like it should, and he is right. If you look at the properties of a song file imported via iTunes and with error correction enabled, you'll notice that the bit rate is significantly less than the CD's max bit rate of 1411kbps, which is where it should be, and it's always different from song to song. I've never gotten anything less than a perfect 1411kbps using Exact Audio Copy.
As far as CD cleaning, everything I use I get from Mapleshade:
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/
I use the Mikrosmooth polishing liquid on all of my discs, CD, DVD, Blu-ray, all of them benefit. I use the Optrix spray after that, and lastly I remove the static build-up with the Ionoclast. I thought to myself, when I had first seen these items in a Mapleshade catalog, how silly such things were and I doubted that they would make such a difference. But I'd read so much about how such treatments worked and how necessary they were for removing a significant amount of the harshness and other anomolies associated with disc playback. Well, I took the plunge and I've been reaping the benefits ever since. By the way, I've never noticed a difference in quality between a treated disc and an untreated disc, when importing music onto my computer. It makes sense that I wouldn't, because the process involves extracting the pits and grooves data from the disc and converting it into a completely digital file, taking away entirely the analog side of CD.
Initially I scoffed at computer based music storage, because, well, let's face it, computers aren't exactly the most stable and dependable of devices. But over the last year there have been new products introduced that are innovative and break away from having to use your computer as the center of control and storage of digital music files. I'm excited about the new foray these audiophile companies are making and looking forward in the near future to building a simple yet incredibly stable and efficient wireless network audio system. The fact that digital music files can be infinitely larger than a CD is an exciting prospect. It opens the door to having completely lossless music taken directly from the master copy. I sure hope it happens before I get too old and my hearing goes bad!