EMM Labs CDSD/DCC2 SE combo Vs CDSA SE
Ali -- Mon, 06/16/2008 - 06:09
Hello,
I am an audiophile residing in Turkey and I am currently thinking about buying one of the Ed Meitner products: Either the CDSD/DCC2 combo or the one box CDSA (which has recently been getting rave reviews).
Although I am familiar with the CDSD/DCC2 combo (having heard it many times), I was wondering if anyone has also heard the CDSA and how these two compare, especially sonically.
I know that budget wise there is a significant price difference, but the DCC2 can be used in the future as a DAC, and also features a highly rated pre-amplifier.
But what about the sound?
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1999 - 2011 NextScreen. All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
I have the CDSA. It is superb. The DCC2 seems to be similar in digital intent, so I would imagine it would be at least as good, but I am sorry that I haven't compared them.
Preamps, on the other hand are a strange beast. The nice thing about the DCC2 is that, as you say, if the preamp doesn't work for you, then you don't have to use it. This, of course assume money doesn't matter!
CEO and Editorial Director, Nextscreen LLC
I've heard the CDSD/DCC2 combination but not the CDSA. From what I've heard from others, the CDSA is the better-sounding player. In addition, the CDSA has higher reliability.
Thanks to both of you for the comments.
I have heard that EMM Labs are due to announce very soon the release of a new product which is a 2 channel DAC. I do not know if this is a new product (say based on the electronics in the CDSA) or it is basically the DAC section of the DCC2 without the pre-amp section.
Furthermore, it appears that now you can upgrade the CDSA transport from the original version to a more robust mechanism (upgrade price USD1500). I have heard that this upgrade is also available for the CDSD Transpor (but again not sure).
Anyway, I will post further news if I hear anything.
It's not surprising that they are offering a transport replacement; the original had a very high failure rate.
Thanks for the comment Robert.
In your previous post I note that you mention having heard the CDSD/DCC2 combo.
I was wondering what your impressions of the Meitner combo were, especially in light of your experience with other high end digital playback equipment such as the Esoteric gear, Spectral, etc...
I thought the SACD playback was the best I'd heard---even including the $45k Esoteric P03/D-03/G-0Rb combination.
On CD, the EMM was good, but not in the same class as the Esoteric, Spectral SDR-4000 Pro, or other top-notch players.
The Dac-2 which is being released as we speak, ( I have just received my first one) is not the same D/A as in the complete CD player.
I am not sure what the differences are as of yet and I have not heard it but I am told that it has some new technolgy inside. There will also be a matching and new transport arriving late summer or early fall.
I wish I could report on the sound but I am leaving Tuesday for France and won't get a chance to play with it untill I return.
CDSA is excellent value and really good sounding one box piece.
I upgraded my transport. The change in sound was very slight. I also did the newest firmware upgrade and the improvement in CD playback was quite nice. Not major but nice. I agree w. RH about the CDSAse & separates being fabulous on SACD. I have been saying this for years. I have also felt CD playback on the original units (non SE) was good at best. On the new SE versions it is much improved but not necessarily up there with the best. Then I did a few major changes to the way I use my CDSDAse (I have owned the separates as well, but not the SE). I placed the CDP on Stillpoints on a platform which is on springs. This was quite a nice improvement. Not sure why but quite nice. Then, the biggest change, I just leave the unit on all the time w. the display off. The unit really sounds much better after 1-2 days of warmup. If you leave it off, it sounds terrible the first few hours and then only comes into its own after a few days. At this point, I feel CD is excellent but probably can be bettered elsewhere. I just have stopped looking as I don't want to dump more money into digital only to have it updated later.
YOu are correct that you should NEVER turn it off.
It is true for allmost all audio products. I never turn anything off except for the tubes and them only because they would not last any siginificant time ( and the heat of the amps of course).
Try a good power conditioner on you EMM you might like the results.
Elliot,
I do. Actually a Thor w. a few choices in power cords. Elrod & Tara top of the line.
You should also listen to the new Playback Design unit. Heard it side by side with the 2 box Meitner and preferred it-a bit smoother and more resolved, maybe a bit punchier as well. Well worth auditioning.
there is a new dac-2 for two channel and a new transport coming this fall.
Leaving them on is not a choice it is the only way. Thor works really well especially with a Valhalla PC.\
YOu may want to try a quantum Q-4 as well
I was told that the new DAC (DAC-2) will NOT work with the old transport.
Would be interested to read your comments Elliot (when you come back from France).
The new Meitner transport is called the TSD-1.
From the information I have, both the DAC2 and the TSD1 are pretty much identical to the previous CDSD/DCC2 SE combo, except now they are linked with only one optilink connection as opposed to three. It seems the system adopts a new clocking mechanism (called World Clock), and I guess this is why maybe the DAC2 will not work on the old transport.
Also from what I have read, the conversion systems (DACs) are the same as in the DCC2 SE.
Finally, the DAC2 sports a USB connection.
On another note, over the weekend I auditionned a system which included AR610T, AR Ref 3, AR CD 7 front end, Meitner CDSD/DCC2, Antique Soundlab Hurricanes, and Magico Mini 2. Using the Ar 610T/Ref3 combo, the sound was quite outstanding, as you can imagine.
We compared the CD7 to the Meitner and preferred the Meitner, but this may be unfair to the CD7 as it only had about 150 hours on it (and going back to Jonathan Valin's review it seems you need a few months break-in on this player to really get the maximum out of it).
But the most interesting find was that the DCC2 worked much better with the Hurricanes than the Ref3. I wonder why that is ....
Of course, when using the 610T, the ref3 was by some way the better pre-amp.
I have decided to give the AR CD7 another chance after the dealer can give it more burn in time.
I wonder if anyone has experience with this player compared to the Meitner, or Meridian 808, or some of the Esoteric gear.
I know Jonathan Valin uses the CD7 as his reference (or at least it was until recently...) and also I think Robert Harley has used it for a while.
I have heard the CD7 only at shows, where the sound of the overall system was wonderful.
Meridian's new 808.2 player looks very interesting. It uses a new digital-filter scheme that reportedly ameliorates many of the sonic problems on conventional filters, problems we associate with CD sound in general. Meridian suggests that the player makes CDs sound closer to high-res sources. That seemed to be the case when I heard the player at CES a few months ago.
I have a sample on the way to me, and Sue Kraft will be working on a full review, with a sidebar comment by me.
Thanks Robert. I will look forward to that review.
By the way I hear that AR may release a DAC7 (and therefore presumably a separate transport)?
Just can't keep up with the fast pace of technological improvements in the Digital field!
I am currently auditioning the AR CD Ref 7 in my system at home. The unit has about 50 or 60 hours break in, and although I like the sound, I found it lacked some control on the bass on certain recordings. I have auditioned the 2 box Meitner (but that unit was fully burned in), and I felt that it had much tighter bass, as well as more air than the CD7.
In his review of the CD7, Jonathon Valin mentioned that it needed a few months (!) break in, and I wonder if he heard the same type of shortcomings that I am hearing now (due to the unit not being fully burned in). I would be curious to hear what improvements a fully burned in CD7 has to offer, and also, his impression of that unit versus the Meitner
re the CDSA one box player....,my understanding it has no digital inputs, correct? sound quality wise I very doubt there is a real discernible difference vs eh CDSD/DCC2 SE combo (I have them and purchased them before the CDSA came out), and considered switching to the CDSA just to reduce the number of boxes, but I do need to use the digital input for my music server (Sooloos) which was the killer for me....
Do you guys have any recommendation on the power cords with cdsd se and dcc2 se? Should they both go with the same power cord? I am still using the stock ones. I would like to have the sound a bit more sweet...is Cardas Golden Ref a good choice?
Pls advise.
I think they're still being shipped with Kimber PK14, although it might not say so on the cable itself.
Some friends and I had played with a few much more expensive power chords (no Cardas though) and preferred the PK14 on the 2-box units. I'm using mine that way.
We didn't try everything, and there might very well be much better ones out there, but the PK14 works well.
I think that for all cabling (including interconnects and speaker), as well as assorted tweaks, you have to try in the context of your own system.
Normal
0
false
false
false
MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}
Well it has been some time since my last post on this subject, but finally I have opted for the CDSA from EMM Labs (CDSA SE with the transport upgrade to be exact). I have been living with this player for a few months now and I'm very happy with the sound.
Recently, I was able to audition and do direct head to head comparisons betwee the new AR CD8 and the CDSA from EMM Labs, as well as the EMM transport CDSD/DA6 combo.
The system was Magico Mini II, AR 610T, AR Ref.3 pre-amp, Norodost ODIN speaker cables, and a combination of ODIN and Transparent interconnects.
There were three listeners, and all of us felt that the CD8 sounded great and was a significant improvement over the CD7. However, all of us preferred the Meitner sound (be it the CDSA stand alone or the CDSD/DAC 6 combo). If I can summarize it quickly, the Meitners exhibited a much more Vinyl like sound, whereas the CD8 sounds more like CDs. To be fair however, the CD8 had "only" about 150 hours burn-in, and I understand that these units need many many hours before they give their best.
Another interesting (but much more difficult) comparison was between the Meitner one box and 2 box players. Basically, it was extremely difficult to tell them apart. They exhibit very much the same sound characteristics (as you would expect). The one-box CDSA sounded more relaxed and had more "meat" in the mid-range, whereas the 2-box player sounded more dynamic although a bit more hollow in the mid-range.
In any case, all 3 are excellent products.
I also have the CDSA. It is superb. Highly recommended.
ARC CD8....loooooong burn in time...i had Ref7 before and i nearly wanted to go back to ref7 from ref8...i thought i was toooo fast and lack of bass...but i changed the power cord from shunyata anacondas to transparent power link mm...boy one can SEE the difference let alone hear it...its as if it was a new machine...dont write CD8 off without trying it with a superb power cord...even though i have dedicated power lies coming to my system, the change of power cords made the biggest difference...shunyata was good...even superb until transparent powerlink mms came in...must be on anyones short list to try them....you dont know what you are missing...