Denon AVR with Monitor Audio Speakers ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE
laughalotmike -- Fri, 11/05/2010 - 22:10
I am new to the forum, having said that however I have been dealing with and listing to Hi quality equipment since the early 70's. I immigrated in 94 and up until this year have not really been able to afford hi end equipment. I have used the likes of Sonab 116's, Meridian M10's (Still the best sounding speaker I have ever heard at any price) and Thiels to mention just a few. I recently purchased the following and would appreciate some feed back from those more knowledgable than myself. Denon AVR 1911, Monitor Audio RX1 Fronts , Ma RX Center, MA Vectors Rear and the Paradigm DSP 3400 V2 sub. Music source is the Creek Evolution CD Player. Any and all comments positive or negative would be welcomed. Room Size is 5mtr x 4 mtrs although no 2 walls are parrallel. I have read that the MA's should not be partnered with bright electronics. How does the Denon add up. BTW I have the option of returning all or any of the components if I dont like them. I have 90 days to decide. One other thing I live in an apartment so listen to music\TV at realistic levels.
Cheers
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This is a pretty broad question and a lot could be said. A few thoughts:
1. The Denon should be fine with the Monitor Audio speakers, in general. I don't have experience with this specific model, but generally I find that Denon and Onkyo receivers sound pretty smooth, but give up some resolution and fine detail compared with much more expensive electronics. That is for most people a minor sacrifice (and a major savings).
2. You have Audyssey room correction in the Denon. Are you using it? If so, is there a major difference? If there is, please be sure to attend to points 3, 4 and 5 if you can.
3. It is worthwhile considering your placement of speakers. This is a topic in itself, so let me simply ask if you have followed some guidelines here (e.g. from Harley's Secrets of Home Theater book)?
4. In relation to point 3, it is also worth attending to the location of the listener vis a vis the speakers. Pay particular attention to your distance from the rear wall.
5. Have you adjusted room treatment?
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Mr Martin thank you for your reply. I have done no room correction as yet. I am still trying to understand all the new terminology (None of this was about when I was involved in Audio) I want to give the speakers a good few hundred hours to break in before I start playing with various setups. I will probably invite the expert from my "LAS" (Local Audio Supplier) to do the initial setup and also to teach me (Old Fart that I am) about the receiver. As an aside I am considering changing the receiver to the 2310. Main reason is for the Phono imput stage. I would love to buy a turntable. I am not sure if it is better to get a phono pre amp or use the dedicated imput on the 2310. 3D is of no interest to me. As for point 4 of your reply due to space constraints me speakers are only 25cm from the rear wall. My distance from the rear wall on the other had is 2 meters. As for point 5 "have you adjusted room treatment" I am totally confused by that question. Please could you explain it as you would to a 5 year old
Small rooms normally limit what one can do with placement. The point about your listening location is that it is worth trying 6" forward or back from where you are (if the room allows). I'm not saying that will matter, but it might. The height of your ears vis a vis the center of the "woofer" (which is really just the main speaker) is also worth experimenting with. But do this after the room treatment below.
Point 5:
1. reflections of sound and their absorption (or not) is a major factor in the tonal balance of your system.
2. diffusion of sound (scattering it without absorbing it) is a factor in how spacious your system sounds.
3. normally one wants to be sure that the first reflection points (side walls, ceiling, floor) are absorbed. This is because of some basics of how the ear works and how your walls probably work. In a nutshell, the timing differences for first reflections vs. direct sound are small, so your ear can integrate them with direct sounds as if they were one. But, your speakers don't radiate all frequencies to the side the way they do straight ahead, so if the first reflections aren't absorbed you've changed the apparent tonal balance of your system.
In addition, you want to attend to "slap echo" via absorption. If you have two reflective walls opposite one another, they will create a ping-pong effect for the sound. Absorbing sound on one of the walls (remember floor and ceiling are walls) will address this. If you have no parallel walls, this may be a smaller issue.
4. Aesthetics may prevent attending to point 3 (via curtains, pillows, rugs or specialty acoustic products), but if you can it is often wise.
5. Diffusion is considered desirable, particularly behind the listener, but elsewhere as well (given the proximity of your speakers to the front wall, that might be a place to attend to). This can often be accomplished with CDs, LPs, books or other objects. There are, of course, professional acoustics products to do this as well. What you're trying to do is to avoid flat surfaces (with their so-called specular reflections rather than diffuse reflections).
I would urge you to try the room correction feature of your receiver. I might be above average in technical knowledge, but I thought the process was trivially easy. Having your dealer do it is fine too. In a small room, though, room correction is ordinarily the single largest change you can make (though just because the change is big doesn't always mean it will be for the better).
CEO and Editorial Director, Nextscreen LLC
Thank you for the very detailed reply. I will try all of the above Aesthetics are not a very big thing as I only have myself and a Labrador to please, so I will get my dealer in and he can recommend the best possible way to achieve the best possible results
For a good sound get yourself a Yamaha AVR and Monitor Audio RX Silver 6's or 8's av pack speakers 5.1 or 7.1, or Bronze BX 6's av pack 7.1 if you want to save money. You get a better price with speakers if you buy the av pack, also try to get foor-stock on display, as it has been burnt-in and you can get beter discount on this. The newer Yamaha 3D AVR's have a 80db (mm) output for phono BTW !
Thanks for the answer. In my room there is no place for floor standing speakers. If you have ever been to an Israeli Kibbutz you will know the size of the rooms. Generally about 3 square Feet. Thats a bit of an exageration but my main living area is also a dining room, an entrance hall and a kitchen. The area is in total about 20square meters but only 9 square meter is usable as a salon. Would have loved the RX6's but money and sensibility being what it is I had to compromise somewhere. The only true luxuary I alowed myself was the DSP 3400 Subwoofer. It is a monster but I truley love it. This is the closet I have come to hearing to base that I used to hear on the Meridian M10's
Decided to go and listen to a Yamaha as per your advice and bought the RX V3800. I have absaloodle no interest in 3D (I listen to 80%music and only 20% or less TV)so dont need HDMI 1.4 but sound of this receiver blew me away. Got it for less than half price. Decided to stay with the RX1's at a later stage I will probably upgrade to the RXFX. BTW the 3800 has a MM phono imput and thats all that I need. I have always prefered the sounf of MM to MC