Dear JV, about your review of ARC REf 5
TOGA -- Wed, 09/01/2010 - 11:11
Hi,
You mentioned about a very long break in time, several hundreds of hours.
Do you mean something like 600 ? 700 ? or around 300 ? and the 6550tube last only
2000 hours according to user manual. 1/4 of its life will be used to break in the units.
My Ref 40 Ann. has passed its 140 hours. But still not bloom and deep bass still lacking
in weight and body. Only upper mid and high that seems to open up.
I've heard better from my last Ref 5. But My Ref 5 had 600 hours on it when I got it.
TOGA
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This is called, "playing with the big dogs."
TOGA,
I still haven't heard the Ref 40, but I think I'll finally get to in about a week or so. If it's like the Ref 5, it will take quite a while for it to sound its typical best. As I said in my review of the Ref 5, I was truly puzzled by its sound when I first started listening--it just didn't have that ARC light and bloom and air. That changed with time, but it was quite a long time (I'd guess at least 400 hours or so--maybe more.) And, yeah, you will be squandering tubes throughout break-in. OTOH, it isn't the tubes that are breaking in; its the capacitors, primarily. From what ARC tells me, the caps in the Ref 40 are so large and numerous that it takes even longer for them to break in!
Jon
hi jv,
mine is approaching 300 hours; but it sat mostly unused during the months of july & august when it was too damn hot. does that still count as 300 hours or do i start from the beginning? i read stuff about drying of capacitors.
mcduman,
If you think it was hot at your house, try living with a Reference 5, a Reference Phono 2, and a pair of 610Ts in the heart of June, July, and August.
I don't know the answer to your question, i.e., whether not playing a component for several months counts against any "break-in" time you've already put on the unit. (I do know that the dielectrics of cables can degrade with extended periods of non-use.)
May I ask if you agree with TOGA about the sound of the Ref 40th Anniversary? Has it lacked bloom, low-end weight, and body thus far?
Jon
Thanks jon,
It could be that, while waiting for Ann40, the dealer sent me Pass XP20+XA160.5 to play.. and the bass from this combo was so punchy, so powerful, so articulate and clear. bass was like bass we hear from headphone. Then When I got Ref ANN 40, I mate it with my MOON power amp. The speakers are the same, Salon2. But I remembered that the Ref 5 of mine, Before I traded it. matched very well with MOON power amp. Bass of Ref 5 went deep and quite solid, much weightier than when using Moon's preamp.
Ref 40 seems like it has high pass filter crosssed at 50Hz or something like My Salon2 become a mini monitor with 6" bass driver, it just doens't have the same lower end freq the same way I remember Ref 5 do. From the upper mid up, Ann40 is quite big improvement over the Ref 5. Now it has 160hr on the counter.
Toga
Also, Can I break it in with power amp OFF ? Will preamp see the same loading on its output when power amp off ?
I wanted to do this but afraid I will use lots of tube life with no actual brak in benefit.
thanks
TOGA,
Yes, as long as you are playing wide-dynamic-range music (or a break-in signal) through it at a moderate level (say mid-80dB peaks), you can break the Ref 40 in with the power amp off. (Just don't forget that you are running a signal through the preamp when you turn your amps back on--you could get a VERY nasty surprise if you're playing the preamp louder than I've recommended.) Judging by my experience of the Ref 5, 160 hours of break-in isn't going to get you all the way to bliss. The Reference 5 took something close to 400 hours to start to sound really good, and it continued to change for many hours after that (particularly in the bass). The new caps that ARC is using are apparently just bears when it comes to break in, and there are a LOT more of them (of much bigger size) in the Ref 40 than in the Ref 5. I'll have something more concrete to say when I actually hear the darned thing in my system.
Jon
jon,
i do not have the ref 40. yet. i wont get it until i hear a fully broken in unit or until you hear one:-)).
"I won't get it until...you hear one."
Heh-heh!
My Ref 40 has 280 hrs on it and the bass is deep and controlled now (with Lamm M1.2 amps and Wilson Sashas). There was no bass, deep or mid-, for the first 50-100 hours. I notice the most change now in the treble. Just stick with it. I keep thinking that it has stopped evolving but it hasn't. The 600 hours ARC claims for break-in is probably accurate.
My Anniversary is now over 800 hours.
For break-in I connected two XLR plugs with 10 Khm load resistors and a meter to check activity. The Anniversary has a protection muting system that reduces the gain if it detects transients in the power supply line - to go to normal gain you just have to decrease volume to zero and increase gain again.
This happens sometimes if I disconnect and reconnect the VTL MB750s power amplifier in the same block of plugs where I have the preamplifier - the volume immediatley goes down, but the volume indication does not change. Happily I discovered it before the break-in period - imagine doing it in mute mode!
geminga and microstrip,
Thanks for this info.
The 600-hour break-in period is very reminiscent of the Reference 5, gem, which, as I said in my review, also took forever and a day to "break-in." I'm glad to hear that your Ref 40 has begun to sound swell.
The automatic muting when the preamp detects a voltage spike is news to me, micro.
Jon
Mine is really getting better, now I can feel better and somehow deeper bass. I made two changes recently, I use Isotek Burn-in disc rather than
music CDs, and I got a long waiting Finite Elemente platform delivered. Now my Anni is reaching clocked 230 hours. The soundstage is so huge...
bass getting deeper. But I know at 230 hours, I still cannot count on it. IsoTek burn in disc is quite hard on speakers however, use with care.
On the other side of the Atlantic, I tested the REF5 and the 40th Anniversary three weeks ago. (I was lucky that the French distributor accepted to lend his 40th to the dealer where I did the tests, thanks to him btw). The REF5 had 304hours and the 40th had about 109hours. Though the Anniversary was not broken in yet, the bass were better and more extended on some CD, not all. I confess that the REF5 thirlled me more and triggered lots of emotions. I did order early this week the pair REF5 +REF PHONO2, based on Jonathan's recommendations. I do not fear to say that I simply do not have the money to afford the 40th which gave me the impression that it is fantastic Grand Cru of Burgandy wine, but which requires lots and lots of time to deliver its complex flavours. The REF5 of the dealer is in my system since the past 48hours waiting for my set to arriven and the soudstage is .... WAAAAAOUWW.
The couple REFERENCE 5+REFERENCE PHONO2 is a killer. I bought for the first time four new LPs last week. Suzanna Vega sings in the room. Breathtaking. On CDs the REF5 is an absolute marvel. Highly recommended guys.