Class D amps - use them where they are at their best

schussor -- Thu, 11/02/2006 - 14:11

I think the important issue here is to make the most of the Class D amps, as one should do with any others.

I triamp a modified Tympani with Bohlender Garebener midrange drivers.

The Midrange carries the bulk of the music at 250 hz to 5 khz, and I found it did very very well with EVS modified NuForce 8 amps, better than modded Triode Dynaco MkIII, a Classe Dr-9 with substantial vibration damping and waaay better than Strickland designed brideged differential amps from Fosgate. However, the Nuforce requires a heavy application of viscoelastic damping to produce sharp transients. In part this is because of my loud listening volume.

What I consider "natural sound" is where I differ substantially from most audiophiles. I had been an amateur classical musician and come from a musical family where a Beethoven quartet was something you played in the kitchen with your buddies from the youth orchestra. Where Row 4 to
7 center is a normal perspective on an orchestra, and 6 ft away from Rampal in an impromptu concert is not a special sound situation, where sitting in on most of a piano competition is not taxing even if you are hearing Le Tombeau every half hour for six hours straight, and are only 20-30 ft away. Where you, or one of your parents is playing the piano alone or accompanying a soloist preparing for performance and you listen from a few feet away.

Though I was used to listening from within an orchestra, as clarinetists sit in the middle back normally, I had more than enough passive listening from the front of the orchestra to "fix" my reference there.

Unfortunately for me, the tactile physical presence of a musical experience that I was used to and remains my reference, is not the target of the recording engineers, the high end manufacturer/designer, nor most other audiophiles. I had been in a few dozen recorded sessions of chamber and symphonic music and wondered how the front balcony perspective of the microphone placement could ever capture my experience. Indeed, the foreshortened deep arc perspective of the orchestra, chamber ensemble or soloist just a few feet in front and at eye level would land a high end designer or recording engineer in the line of fire of most reviewers.

Nevertheless, with some modification and careful speaker and listening seat setup and a few kw of amplifier power hooked up directly to mostly resistive speaker drivers without passive LC components, it is nearly doable at sufficient volume due to the non-linearity of instrument's frequency response and attack characteristics with distance, you can get the close-up perspective by playing a recording made for listening at Loud = 90 db at an SPL of 100db and adjusting the trebble shelf on the crossover to correct gross disproportions caused by the recording or the jacked up volume.

That said, the NuForce amps were well beyond what the other amps could do at a normal output of 5-10 watts into 94 db efficiency and was the only amp I had ever heard, including a Bryston 4B NRB, that could do the midrange tutti and loud piano passages without particularly noticeable distortion when outputing 50-100 watts or more. And that is where their strength lies. For a moderate cost, you can get a clean 10-100 or even 150 watt midrange that is normally only available in $5000 per channel and up with pure class A solid state designs or megalithic tube amps that weigh as much as a Stonehenge stone block.

What they don't do is good trebble, where the high current Classe DR-9 outdoes the NuForce amps even without the benefit of the great advances made in solid-state's trebble since it was introduced over a decade ago.

If you compare the bit-rate of the PWM to the PCM of early digital at 500 khz to 700 khz and modern digital 24/192 at over 4600 khz, and compare sound quality to a "good" analogue master tape from which those are derrived, then you get an idea of where (in frequency) you want to cut off the use of a class D amp - at about 4-5 khz for class D amps operating in the 500-800 khz range.

As with old digital, one could coax extra performance out of the low bit rate technology, but one does not have an extra decade of frequency range above the treble signal (only one decade available) to make room for the detrimental effects of imperfect components (transistors, inductors, capacitors, processing chips). When 2-3 Mhz technology is available, it might be possible to get a reasonable cost class D amp to operate in the trebble without undue compromise.

I have no idea what the bass sound of the switching amps is like from personal experience, nor how it integrates with the midrange since my bass power requirements dwarf the NuForce amps entirely at about 1 KW per channel into 4 ohms delivered from a pro-audio Crown 5002VZ amp (2.5 KW into 4 ohms rating). Reviews comments tend to indicate a disproportionaly powerful bass tight, but occasionally over-ripe.

I can say the the NuForce amps are sensitive to reactive components in the speakers where I placed large inductors or capacitors that should not have made a frequency response difference in the operating band of the Nuforce amps (only 250-5000 hz is fed into them - above the inductor's pass band effects, below the capacitor's pass band effect) to "see what happens". Both components had very nasty sounding effects similar to the white glaze some complain about on the caps addition, and indecent levels of compression and higher frequency roll off with the inductor. This may have something to do with the great preference some planar speaker listeners have for the class D amps where despite LC active components in the speakers, the speaker provides a near resistive load.

My own experience and experimentation indicates that the class D amps should not be used with strongly reactive speakers, and are best when hooked up directly to drivers in multiamp setups with line level crossovers. so as to avoid introducing distortion from LC active components.

Tom Martin -- Thu, 11/02/2006 - 22:34

From my experience with the nuForce (Ref 9 and Ref 9SE), I don't believe it is correct to characterize the bass as over-ripe. The nuForce amps do seem to go quite low, but I think most listeners would describe the bass as being on the lean side rather than the full side. This is logical, as well, because the nuForce has a very high damping factor (low output impedance), which means that it will produce less bass around a speaker's impedance peak. Note, as well, that less bass is simply a relative statement. It is not necessarily bad -- in fact this high damping factor bass should be more accurate. Still, on a system dialed-in for lower damping factor amps, it may sound wrong until adjustments in setup are made.

DOT*SYSTEM -- Sat, 11/04/2006 - 12:43

tmartin wrote:From my experience with the nuForce (Ref 9 and Ref 9SE), I don't believe it is correct to characterize the bass as over-ripe. The nuForce amps do seem to go quite low, but I think most listeners would describe the bass as being on the lean side rather than the full side. This is logical, as well, because the nuForce has a very high damping factor (low output impedance), which means that it will produce less bass around a speaker's impedance peak. Note, as well, that less bass is simply a relative statement. It is not necessarily bad -- in fact this high damping factor bass should be more accurate. Still, on a system dialed-in for lower damping factor amps, it may sound wrong until adjustments in setup are made.

I own an Acoustic-Reality eAR Two and an H20 amp. Both use the Icepower 500A module and linear power supply and have high damping factors. The capacitor storage bank is much larger on the H20. The eAR bass is leaner and less defined than that of the H20.

I also have a smaller H20 on loan based on the 250A module - also linear power supply and high damping factor. The bass quality is very similar to that of its big brother.

Given speakers with reasonable bass extension I think the bass leaness/fullness quality is not as related to amp damping factor as it is to power supply design and that speaker/amp synergy will be system specific (amp/speaker/room). OTOH, high damping factor amps may make speakers that use midrange drivers as woofers and that rely on cabinet resonance to extend bass response sound lean (all IMHO).

Bob

schussor -- Sat, 11/04/2006 - 16:17

Tmartin, DOT*SYSTEM

What speakers are you refering to?
What speakers have you tried with Class D products.

Tmartin,

I did not comment on my own experience with the NuForce on bass because it has insufficient power for my bass.
The bass amp I use has a damping factor geater than 1000 though it is a Class AB with a "plateau bias" scheme. And the speaker is non-reactive. Room modes are partially removed with a White Instruments cut only passive LC equalizer on crossed over bass line signal. The result is flat to 25 Hz no significant bass hump or suckout.

See
http//www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/128360.pdf
http//www.whiteinstruments.com/sp4200a.htm

DOT*SYSTEM -- Sat, 11/04/2006 - 19:15

I am using VMPS RM-40 CDWG speakers. These have a woofer, midwoofer and mass tunable passive radiator. I am biamping into the speaker's passive crossover using a Rives PARC before the bass amp. The bass/midrange crossover point is around 280 hz.

Besides the RM-40s, I have heard the H20 drive Salk HT3s and Focus Audio FS-888 speakers (also another set of TACT corrected RM-40s).

Bob

schussor -- Sun, 11/05/2006 - 02:55

Actually, a friend is trying to find a bass amp for his RM30. He is using one of my Fosgates as a loaner for that. Hard to beat at the price ($300 used). He wanted to look at some Class D amps. His listening room is rather small so I doubt he would need much more than the 200 WPC he is getting from the Fosgate.

I had just written to him about power supply issues with high power transients (bass transients in particular) that can only be solved with "excessive capacitance" in the power supply, so from your experience it seems he should look for high capacitance power supplies even with Class D amps. At least those with linear supplies.

Any idea about those with switching supplies?

Re the CDWG, if your speakers are fully broken in, the low trebble emphassis in the line array should be mostly gone. If you can do without it you can get better detail and slightly higher efficiency. We also found that 1/2" thick weather stripping foam can do the job with less loss of detail and effeciency but with some WAF loss.

Do you use the EAR on top?

I was warry of using the affordable TACT and PARC devices that I could find on the used market. They had too low a digital resolution. I considered getting a 24/96 Behringer with a Lavry AD and Benchmark DA to do the trick since the Behringer had far better resolution and the AD and DA would have been better to boot. But when I came accross the old passive White Instruments devices I found a decent solution that was cheap (it is now that studios are replacing them with computer controlled devices - in their day, a stereo set would have set you back $4000) and well designed, even if for the recording studio market. I am rather happy with it. After some new damping in the room the correction is rather small, so I may take the EQ out altogether.

DOT*SYSTEM -- Sun, 11/05/2006 - 09:03

I think whether a lean or fuller sounding bass amp is the best match is very much dependant on the total system. My comments concerned B & O modules requiring a linear power supply.

Some feel the switching power supply Icepower modules produce excessive bass. I suspect its all in the implementation. The switching power supply allows a manufacturer to ship the same product internationally without having to make major changes for country-specific versions.

I am using the eAR Two on the bottom actually. The eAR 2 model has a triangular chassis with all connections in a cramped area under the chassis. Consequently, very few power cords will even fit. There can be issue with interconnects and speaker cables as well. So I opted to put the H20 on top since I could use a better power cord to reproduce frequencies over 280 hz. If there were no cable connection issues, there are trade-offs with placing the eAR and H20 in the high or low position because they have different personalities. Still, this combo seems to work together a little better than the combination of H20 models. All these amps have the same gain spec but the combo using the 500A modules sounds more coherent at any volume setting. The H20 combo does not due to the lower power of the smaller model - even though you can achieve a good tonal blend using the RM40 level controls. Eventually, I will probably use identical H20 models and need to decide between a pair of 250A or 500A module amps.

Newer eAR amps place the connections on the outside of the chassis like everyone else. I believe that most of their newer models use the switching power supply Icepower modules.

Bob

Tom Martin -- Sun, 11/05/2006 - 12:44

I'd have to agree that the bass performance of amps must be considered in light of the total system.

My comment about the impact of output impedance simply takes Ohm's law into consideration -- through the voltage divider formula. Many (but certainly not all) speakers have some kind of impedance peak in the bass. This is particularly true of ported speaker designs, which can often rise from, say, 4 ohms over much of the range to, say, 40 ohms in the bass. Because of this, all other things being equal, a lower output impedance amp (e.g. class D) will sound leaner in the bass than a higher output impedance amp (e.g. a tube amp).

Of course, there are other factors, and class D amps in my experience (NuForce, Kharma, Red Dragon, Spectron, Sonic Impact, Channel Islands, Audio Research) can sound quite different in the bass. This may be due to power supply or other factors. But it is hard to say. Example: the ARC and Spectron both use conventional power supplies, but sound poles apart in the bass. NuForce and Kharma use switching supplies, but sound very different.

Speakers I've used: mbl 101e, Paradigm Signature 8, Usher V601, Tannoy Autograph

Post new comment

This is a hidden form field please leave blank.
This is a hidden form field please leave blank.
This is a hidden form field please leave blank.
The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <img>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Each email address will be obfuscated in a human readable fashion or (if JavaScript is enabled) replaced with a spamproof clickable link.

More information about formatting options

You are seeing this because you do not have javascript enabled. Please enter the words "not spam" to continue sumbiting the form.