choosing speakers to complete system
default -- Sun, 09/27/2009 - 16:44
I recently took advantage of the recent wave of Audiogon sales on the Audio Research Reference 3 and PH7 phonostage , given the arrival of the Reference 5 preamp and Ref2 phonostage. I also acquired an Audio Research 100.2 solid state amp (100wpc). Plan to purchase a VPI Classic turntable and probably a Cambridge Azur 840C or Simaudio CD player. I will need to travel 400 miles to Denver to audition speakers. I am wondering if anyone has any recommendations on speakers that would go well with and not be outclassed by the ARC electronics. My room is 15 x 20 x 8 with wooden floors. Will get a large floor rug to soften the acoustics. My budget, having admittedly spent a bit disproportionately on the electronics, is in the 3 to 6K range. I listen to small scale classical, jazz, acoustic, male and female solo artists mostly. Favorites include Bach, Chopin, Metheny, Jarrett, Mark Knopfler, Donald Fagen, James Taylor, Diann Krall.
I would like to be able to place the speakers fairly close to the rear wall. Maggies would be nice but would like something with a more compact footprint. Have thought about PSB Synchrony Two towers or monitors, Gallo Reference 3.5, Focal Be1007 or used Micro Utopias, B&W 804S, Gershman Sonogram, Harbeth Compact 7ES-3, Usher Be-718. Any others to consider? Which of the above most likely to do well in the room? Any input would be greatly appreciated ..... Dave
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1999 - 2011 NextScreen. All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
Try Maggies you like them. Most of the footprint is vertical.
Yes I read what you said but you need to audition Maggies. For the type of music you listen to, your budget and recent equipment purchases you would be doing yourself a big disservice if you didn't listen them.
Sheepherder
Shenandoah Valley, VA
Sheepherder--
Thank you for your input. I will audition the Magnepan 1.6 and hope that ,if indeed they are magical , that my wife goes along with their presence in our small to medium-sized room. The 3.6's unfortunately I suspect are too large for this room. I did listen to some Definitive Technology bipolar or dipolar tower speakers a number of years ago and didn't really care for them. I found the sonic experience to be strange, almost nauseating. Again, many thanks for your response.
The Usher 'Tiny Dancers' and the Focal BE1007s are both nice. But for big sound with a samll footprint, you owe it to yourself to hear the Totem Mani-2 and ' The One'. They both have incredible imaging and beautiful mids, quite lovely highs, and MUCH more bass than you'd ever expect from monitors. ' The One' will definitely need a sub to give you the bottom octave. The Mani-2 is a full-range speaker (Stereophile Class B-Full Range) that gives me usable in-room bass down to 40-45 Hz... and plenty of it. (I still use a sub, w/ low-pass set @ 40-45 Hz. But my room is 19 x 27 x 10.)
The only concern with the Mani-2 is that 100 wpc might not drive it to it's absolute best performance. They LOVE high power (85 db sensitivity, 4 Ohms). If so, 'The One' will definitely soar with 100 watts, and will fill your room with beautiful music.
I've had my Mani-2s for about 12 years, and I can't manage to replace them... at least not for under $20K/pr.
As silly as this sounds, I was VERY interested in 'The One' for my living room based on the TAS review -- but had a hard time getting past the part where they weigh only 9 lbs each. I have several medium-sized dogs that really don't go into the living room, but nonetheless I couldn't get past the thought of one of my dogs knocking over one of the speakers on a stand and causing serious damage. For the money, there must be excellent drivers and cross-overs contained within such a small speaker. Based on the sensitivity and impedance of the Mani-2, I suspect you're right -- 100 watts would not likely get the best performance out of the speaker. Have you heard the Forest? If so, how does it compare to the other two?
Although the Magnepan 1.6 is a great speaker (and a terrific bargain), they need to be placed well away from the rear wall, and lots of amplifier power to drive them. The Usher Be-718 is a good choice, as is the Vandersteen 2Ce and DALI Ikon 6. These are all in the $2k-$2700 range. The PSB Synchrony Two is excellent at $3k. Also consider the Vandersteen 3A Signature at $3950. At the top end of your price scale is the Revel Performa F52.
Thank you Robert for your reply. I have been an avid reader of TAS for 3 years now and greatly appreciate your counsel. I must confess that a lot of what I learned through TAS and High Performance Audio Systems was forgotten when I rather suddenly had the cash to be able to invest and , like a kid in a candy store, grabbed for the sweet ARC gear through Audiogon. I have spent half of my 20K budget just on the preamp, amp and phonostage. I don't think I'll have any regrets, however. Anyway, the Usher Be-718 has always been high on my auditioning list. You and others have suggested that 200 watts of amperage is better. I've heard that Usher recommends at least 100 wpc to get good low end resolution... so I will definitely audition. The Vandersteens I've read are in the same "sonic circle" as Audio Research ( a more refined audiophile sound that is more smooth than precise or highly resolving, and more to the cool side of neutral ) and likely to be a good match. I have also read that they should be pulled out ( how far?) from the rear wall a ways, and they seem to have a bigger footprint. I've liked what I read about the Synchrony 2 tower being essentially a two way, and that foam plugs can be placed in one or more rear ports to dampen the bass, and this too I definitely plan to audition. Again, thank you kindly for your input and keep up the great work!!!
I would give the THiel 2.4s a listen. I run ARC Ref110 with Thiel 2.4 speakers (preamp and CD also ARC) and love the combination. Some people find Thiel speakers to be analytical and on the cool side of neutral. Truth be told, I had them pared with Musical Fidelity A5 integrated amp at the outset and after about a year, found them to be fatiguing in that setup. But when I switched over to the ARC Reference gear (a bit overkill for the speakers I know), the Thiels came into their own. I find nothing bright or fatiguing about them now. They are highly resolving and get tone colors and timbral textures accurately. They are soundstaging and imaging champs. They do not plumb the depths of the LF spectrum but they have more than ample fast and tuneful bass. They really appreciate good associated gear, and with your new ARC gear, I think you will like this combo. My room is similar in size although I have the speakers set against the long wall so I sit 8-9 feet from the speakers. In this setup, the Ref110 (similarly powered as your 100.2s although tube power) are more than enough to drive the Thiels, eventhough the Thiels are notoriously power hungry. I have the speakers out 2ft from the back wall, about 8 ft apart and at their midpoint, 9 feet from the listening position. If you have a chance to audition them, I would highly recommend them. Good luck and happy shopping.
cmalak-- Thank you for your well written, insightful response. I probably would not have thought to audition Thiel, largely because of the perhaps unfair reputation of being as you say analytical, cool. I seem to remember reading about the 2.4s in the past -- all I retained is that they were supposedly great with jazz. Based on your post, I will most definitely audition along with the Usher Be-718 and PSB Synchrony Two and perhaps the Vandersteens. Many thanks for your help. Dave
Usher Audio's new Mini One or Mini Two. See Chris Martin's rave review on this site.
Doctor Lee -- Thanks for the tip. Until recently, I hadn't really entertained a floor-standing full range speaker for this medium-sized room, with concern for too much bass response and wanting to get a higher quality 2 way stand-mount for my money that would better disappear in the room and offer excellent soundstaging. A floor standing speaker in my living room would be nice from a purely aesthetics point of view, better hiding the speaker cables. From a performance point of view, I am likely to get better dynamics and I suppose could use some inexpensive concealed bass traps if the bass reponse was excessive. Will add to the list. Thanks again, D.EvansMD
The Mini One should be "room friendly" as it is a 2-way design, yet reportedly goes lower than the Be-718.
Grant Fidelity RBS-1, Compact XZ-2 Signature bookshelf, PMC TB2i, PMC FB1i. These are some I would consider since your room is medium size and you have plenty of power. Sure is lots of nice products to choose from good luck
Thank you for your suggestions. For the type of music I listen to and the room, I am leaning toward my original plan to go with an excellent two-way with bass extension down to the 40-50 Hz range. I'm familiar with PMC (recent TAS review), but not the Grant Fidelity gear. Have you heard either with Audio Research or other tube gear?
I purchased a Grant Fidelity Rita-880 reference tube integrated amp a couple of months ago. I auditioned the amp using these Grant fidelity speakers and I was very impressed with them. Very envolving and accurate speakers. Wonderful bass. (sounded so good I purchased the amp). Grant Fidelity has a 30 day in home trial program. There has been one good review that you can google(stereomojo). I used to own PMC TB2's and althought i did not use them with tubes I am pretty sure they would be great for the size of room, type of music, with a tube pre and solid state power amp.( Ian Grant should be in Denver this weekend at the show)
have you thought of the dynaudio excite series. they have two floorstander's that go down 35hz &37hz with small footprint. the c-1's are also great.
Thanks Wally for your response. I have read up on Dynaudio Excite and the C-1's. The C-1's certainly have had rave reviews, and from what I remember are great with female and male vocalists. Do you think 100 watts per channel would be enough to drive the C-1's? Has anyone heard Audio Research gear matched with Dynaudio or Totem or Dali? Are they a good match?
I have owned both Vandersteen 2C's and Paradigm Reference 100's over the last 12 years or so. The Paradigm are far more revealing of the source. I liked the warmth of the 2C's, but found that thet made many records sound the same in style (rich chocolate would be a brief description). The Paradigm's make the listening close to the recording. If you have the budget, try the Paradigm Signature line. You get great bang for the buck with almost any Paradigm speaker. The narrow design makes them far more wife-friendly than Magnepan's. Good luck!!
Thanks for your input ... much appreciated. I have read that Vandersteens are often paired with ARC gear, and do sacrifice some resolution for warmth and involvement with the music. As I mentioned to Wally below, I think my next step is to audition more resolving quality 2 way speakers and compare them to the Vandersteens to figure out which sound I prefer and find less fatiguing. I would have loved to go to the RMAF this weekend, but it didn't work out. It will likely be February before I get to Denver to audition. I do appreciate everyone's input and will post my purchase down the road. Thanks!
i bought the c-1's for my surround sound speakers.,before i installed them i set them up in my two channel system with a magnum dynalab receiver. this receiver is 100 watt's and the sound blew me away. it made me think why should i need anything more and i have the dynaudio evidence master's in the theater.
Thanks again Wally for the input. The C-1's are touchable if I pick up used on Audiogon. I think I need to audition a more resolving speaker like Dynaudio or possibly Dali or Usher and compare to the smoother sound of Vandersteen to figure out which is better suited to my taste and less likely to cause listener fatigue. I'm hoping that the first group wins out, because from an aesthetics standpoint the Vandersteen Signature 3As seem too big for the room.
By the way Dave, don't know if the 1000Be series of speakers (1007Be: 2-way monitor/1027Be: 3-Way floorstander) made it to your list of speakers to consider but looks like MusicDirect is having a nice deal (30%/35% off depending on which speaker) that could be suitable. I have not heard them so do not know but the 1007Be has been a TAS award winner and has had a lot written about it. Links to the MD site:
http://www.musicdirect.com/search/advanced.php?searchword[]=1007Be
http://www.musicdirect.com/search/advanced.php?searchword[]=1027Be
Normally, I am a proponent of supporting your local audio dealer but it sounds like you have to drive quite a ways to get to the nearest dealer plus this looks like a pretty good deal. I am not certain what Music Direct's return policy is but if it is flexible this may be a good way of auditioning the speakers.
Holy cow!! VERY tempting!!! They were on my audition list (see my initial post). I have been leaning toward a high quality two-way with bass extension down to 40-50 Hz, and these would -- along with the Tiny Dancers -- be in my price range to buy new. If I don't like them, I'm not likely to lose money at this price by putting them up for sale on Audiogon later. Anyone out there that finds this to be an illogical move? I realize auditioning is a critical part of the process of building a system, but my schedule is such that I'm not likely to get to Denver for another 3-4 months and I have this great stuff begging to be heard! LOL :). Moreover, my wife actually acquiesced and gave me the go ahead ( she put a 4-6 month moratorium on spending after I went crazy on Audiogon recently). These have a high WAF and I am probably going to bite. cmalak -- your Thiel recommendation earlier was enticing, but the power recommendation for them was 100-400 wpc, so they definitely would have taxed my 9 year old classic amp. I really thank you for your suggestion here, and I'm amazed at the input I have received from total strangers in such a short time through this venue. I'm very grateful.
The Focal Be-1007 per TAS is said to be a little tipped toward the treble. I have been more worried about excessive bass in the room, and like my B&W 602 monitors (in the home theater system downstairs) which most would likely find on the bright side. Before I bite, does anyone think the Focal - ARC match is a bad one? Dave
I haven't heard the Focal Be-1007 so can't comment on its synergy with your ARC amp but on the issue of whether you should try them out and then resell them if you don't like them, I am pretty sure Music Direct has a pretty flexible return policy, so you may want to give them a call (before ordering them blind) and asking about it. You may find that they will allow you to return them without much hassle or restocking fee. Don't know for sure but worth asking about it. Good luck and happy shopping. I hope they work out for you. Take care Dave.
cmalak -- Thanks again for all your assistance!!! I just purchased the Focal Be-1007 through Music Direct.+stands. Still need speaker cables and interconnects, plus a cd player and turntable. Have selected the Simaudio Moon CD-1 and the VPI classic turntable. I am open to any suggestions on the speaker cables and interconnects for the system (Audio Research 100.2 solid state amp, Reference 3 preamp, PH7 phonostage). Would like to keep the price down to 2k or less if possible. The Focal speaker is not bi-wired.
Glad to hear you are progressing on the path to being able to listen to music :-) I can wholeheartedly vouch for the Simaudio CD-1. I think all their products are excellent (and excellent value). As for the VPI Classic tt, please let us know how you like it and what cart you mount on the JMW10.5 tonearm and how it mates with the PH7. That is a tt I am considering and would love to hear your thoughts on it. On the cabling front, I have only used Nordost Heimdall ICs and speaker cables in my system and I thoroughly like them however I think they will bust your 2K budget as you will need 2ICs, 1 phono cable and i set of speaker cables (unless you shop judiciously on Agon as you did with your equipment). I am sure you will get plenty of suggestions from other folks. Glad the Focal suggestion worked out thru MD. Let us know how you like the speakers with the ARC amplification. Happy listening Dave. Sounds like GDP next month is going to spike up on the back of your purchases :-) I am going long the market.
cmalak--
Received my Focal Be-1007 speakers + stands today. I can't thank you enough for the tip-off. I had received info earlier from MD offering 10% off during their sale -- and surprisingly this applied to the close-out sale on these speakers (apparently they are being replaced by the Be-1008). Ended up with the specialty Zebrano finish speakers(retail $4800) and stands (retail $895) for $3500 + $75 shipping. If they sound anywhere as good as they look, I'm in for a real treat!!!
I promised my wife that I'd cool my jets for awhile. Hope to be able to buy the CD player and cables/interconnects in 2-3 months and the turntable/cart likely in 5-6 months. I would like to return favor and give you more timely feedback regarding the VPI Classic. All I can offer at this time is that the gentleman that sold me his Audio Research Reference 3 and PH7 was a longstanding editor with SoundStage.com and he applauded the choice, stating that it is under their review currently and offers great sound, and is a tremendous value. He recommended an AudioTechnica cartridge that he thought could be acquired for $500. Unfortunately I misplaced my memo as to the model cartridge #-- think it may have been the 33E.
Take care cmalak - - you rock!!! Dave
Glad you are setting things up nicely Dave. MM was probably suggesting the Audio-Technica AT33EV. Thx for the feedback. Enjoy your new system and let us know how the Focals are meshing with the ARC gear. Take care.
Cripes -- is there anything you don't know? :-) MM pointed me in the direction of the AR 100.2, and I'm pretty sure it was the AT33EV. If I were not married and you were of the female sex, I would be proposing a meeting place. LOL. Bad joke. Take care -- hope to meet someday on audiophile grounds, perhaps at RMAF. I owe you a beer. Dave
according to my girlfriend, there are many things (in fact, most things) that i do not know :-) looking forward to your impressions of how it's all coming together once you pull the trigger on the Sim CD and the VPI Classic table later (I might beat you to that one and if I do, I will post my impressions on it in case it's useful for folks)...sounds like you are having fun which is the point of this crazy/expensive hobby of ours...take care Dave and to use the much cliched phrase used in these forums "happy listening."
the transparent line of cables with the new mm2 technology are great choices.
Probably outside my price range, but appreciate the suggestion. Leaning toward Audioquest CV-8 and Columbia interconnects, or DH Labs Super Sonic and Air Matrix.
Stuff I've heard that I ** REALLY ** liked in the way of speakers included the Avalon Symbol, the Revel F-30 (since discontinued to a newer model), the Thiel 3.6 (since discontinued to the 3.7) and the Magneplanar 1.6. IMHO, any of these would be a fitting match for your Audio Research stuff. The Avalon & Magneplanars would both benefit from a subwoofer. The Thiels and Revels probably wouldn't need a sub.
Of course, everyone's ears are different. What sounded heavenly to me, my wife would be happy to replace with Radio Shack speakers. Obviously, bring your own music & audition the various speakers you hear with the same cuts. You won't be able to control the amplification or environment in store auditions, but having music that you're already VERY familiar with will help you sort speakers.
Happy shopping!
A good sense of humor makes it ALL sound better!
Boomzilla --thanks for your input. Judging just by the number of your recent posts, you're very knowledgable, very enthusiastic, or both ( I reckon the latter). I did go with the Focal Be-1007 mini monitors -- hope to provide feedback down the road as to their match with ARC gear.
Thanks, but actually, I'm just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous. The gentlemen who host these forums are the real experts, IMHO. I'm particularly fond of Mr. Valin & Mr. Harley. Even when I disagree with them, they have valid viewpoints based on FAR more than my experience.
A good sense of humor makes it ALL sound better!
I agree with you -- Mr. Valin & Mr. Harley are true experts in this field. Mr.Valin reviewed my recently purchased speakers (Focal Be-1007) in the Nov07 issue of TAS, and he thought the ARC Reference 110 would be a good match. I'm hoping my ARC 100.2 solid state amp comes close, at least until the day when I can afford the Ref 110. Take care...