Best phono stage under $1,000
JR30 -- Wed, 04/02/2008 - 22:08
I would like to go lower in price, but all the reviews I have read seem to show that you need to get closer to 1,000 plus to get the best sound. Am I mistaken? I am looking at the Sutherland Ph3D. Are there other alternatives or perhaps a more economical choice? Thanks, Jason
Of course you can almost always find something more expensive that is "better". But with a budget, you have to think about tradeoffs.
At a lower price, you could look at the Bellari Rolls VP129 ($250).
There are many good choices in phono pre-amps under $1K. It depends on a couple of factors: how much you want to spend, the output of your cartridge, and whether you want to deal with tubes.
Pro-ject has a dizzying array of phono pre's at attractive price points. I tried the Pro-ject Phono Box at $129 and it was surprisingly good. At this price, for me that means it wasn't bright and aggressive. I don't know of a cheaper, better sounding alternative, including the NAD PP1. The Pro-ject Phono Box also works with MM and MC carts. However, for a little more I'd get the Pro-ject Phono Box II USB. It enables you to transfer your vinyl to your computer and has a higher quality circuit than the one used in Pro-ject's Debut III USB (plus you can use it with any 'table).
The Bellari at $250 is the cheapest tube phono pre I'd recommend, particularly if your cart has the right output (I was able to overload the Bellari---so cartridge matching is very important). It does offer warm, musical sound and you can tailor its sound somewhat with different types of 12ax7 tubes (There's only one in the Bellari so you can have a lot of fun without spending a mint).
The Pro-ject Tube Box SE ($549) occupies the "sweet spot" in the under $1K phono pre range, and I think offers a significant step up in performance from the Bellari, with better bass control, higher gain, and far less susceptibility to overload on dynamic peaks. It sounds very musical, with an engaging warmth and naturalness without sounding syrupy and slow. Some tube units in this segment suffer from bass bloat---the Tube Box SE does not. You'll have to spend quite a bit more in a tube unit to beat it. This would be my recommendation.
Another new alternative introduced at CES is the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II. The original Phonomena was a popular choice at $600 and is more transparent, quieter, and offers better extension at the frequency extremes than the Tube Box SE, at the expense of some richness and naturalness. The new Phonomena II, at the same price, is based on the Nova and SuperNova circuits so I would suspect it's a lot more musical than the original. However, I haven't tried it yet. I would also suspect, like the original, it's quieter than the Tube Box SE.
There are other units, to be sure, but these are the ones I'd put on my short list.
Jim and Discman,
Thank you - this was exactly the kind of input I was hoping for. Being new to vinyl I do not really have the experience to know what I should be looking for. Because I am considering a Pro-Ject table I had been looking at the Speed Box and Phono Box as upgrades. I will definitely take another look at the Tube Box SE because for the listed benefits the price seems pretty reasonable. With the Bellari is there a particular cartridge you would lean toward so as to not have the overloading become an issue?
You should be okay with the Ortofon OM5 that comes with the Debut III.
Its output is 4mV, but I certainly wouldn't go any higher than that with the Bellari.
If you go with the Ortofon, I would seriously recommend that you upgrade the stylus with another one in the OM line (like a 10 or 20). You pull the stylus out of the OM5 and plug in another (the cartridge body is the same for both). Believe me, anyone can do this---it's as simple as taking a light bulb out of a lamp and putting in another one (Well, you will have to readjust tracking force).
Good luck!
Jim
I couldn't help but weigh in on JR30's original inquiry, especially in light of the fact that I reviewed the Sutherland Ph3D, and presently have it as well as the original Musical Surroundings Phonomena (not the new Phonomena II) on hand for comparison.
If--and this is a big "if"--your budget can stand the strain there is an awful lot to be said for the Ph3D. What's very cool about it is that it performs well enough to let you start experimenting with quite high performance moving coil cartridges if you want to (cartridges up in the $2k-$3k range, for example). It is also incredibly versatile and quiet as a tomb (though you may hear a bit of noise at very, very high gain settings). Granted, $1k is big chunk of change, but I would argue that, in the Ph3D, most of that money goes straight into performance--not into frivolous gongs, whistles, or "eye candy."
I had the chance to talk with Ron Sutherland about the Ph3D and came away impressed with the level of meticulous detail he put into the design. For example, Sutherland mentioned that he had looked into doing a recharging system with NiCad batteries, but that--in A/B comparisons--he felt conventional alkaline D-cells simply sounded better. Similarly, he said he had compared methods of switching adjustable circuit elements (e.g., gain, cartridge loading) and had rejected DIP switches because, again, he felt press-fit jumper connectors (as used in the Ph3D) sounded better. Finally, while the Ph3D's folded sheet metal enclosure looks pretty pedestrian, Sutherland pointed that it is both physically strong and designed to create two isolated chambers (one for the batteries, the other for the circuit board) that help minimize noise. And on occasions when you need to open the preamp up (to switch gain or swap out batteries, for example), you'll discover the cabinet is held together by nicely made captive thumbscrews--no tools required, and no fasteners to lose. My point: There's more to the Ph3D than first meets the eye.
BTW: Jim's suggestions for sub-$1k phonostages look pretty good to me, though I encounter anecdotal references to noisy samples of the Bellari from time to time. I also feel the modest little NAD PP-2 is worthy of consideration if you seek a simple, straightforward, dead reliable performer whose price won't break the bank (and it offers MM/MC capabilities, to boot).
Chris Martens
Editor, Playback
playback.avguide.com
Luckily for me I would rather the gear work well and sound good than look great. I also have a fairly forgiving spouse. However, on the budget she might not be so flexible :cry: At this juncture it looks as though I will be opting for a more modest turntable such as the Debut III or Rega P1. Initially I will probably pair them up with the NAD or Project boxes, but the Ph3D looks like a really good upgrade.
I don't know if this makes any sense or not, but I wanted to ask. If you are running a tube amp/integrated is there a difference between using a tube or solid state phono preamp? The feedback I get on this forum has been an invaluable tool for me (pardon the neophyte)!
My personal view is: beware too many tubes. If you are using a tube amp, I would advise, as a generality, a solid state phono section. Certainly, there is no reason that you must use tubes with tubes.
discman wrote:My personal view is: beware too many tubes. If you are using a tube amp, I would advise, as a generality, a solid state phono section. Certainly, there is no reason that you must use tubes with tubes.
This system matching issue is such a can of worms ... It's the magical extra that doesn't get talked about much as it is so individually system dependent.
I use a semi-tube preamp, tube amps and solid state phono stage (ASR Basis Exklusiv). Some tubes do not sound like tubes, some sound like the real live instruments and others sound like flab. Some solid state sound sweet and musical and others sound like nails on glass. I think there are no hard fast rules, except one: try in your own system.
that nobody has mentioned the dynavector p75 or p75II. i have yet to see a bad comment. i dont have one but as of now, am not in need. my system can be seen at:
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/cgi/system.mpl
the p75 would be high on my list if i were in need.
...regards...tr
The Dynavector DV P-75mkII does look pretty sweet but I haven't had the pleasure of hearing one.
However, Jacob Hestor reviewed the original P-75 in our sister publication, Hi-Fi+. Here's the link for the review:
http://www.dynavector.com/products/amp/e_p75mk2.html
How does it do with non-Dynavector carts?
Thanks,
Jim
i dont have the p75 but i think the subject has been handily covered at the asylum.
...regards...tr
I'm surprised no one here mentioned the Parasound Zphono - an outstanding deal for the money!
Clearaudio makes some superb phonostages in the sub-$1000 category, well-built, detailed, fast and boasting loads of gain. They would work well with both MM and MC cartridges.
If you want to stick with MMs or maybe a Grado moving iron, you may want to consider the sub-$1000 models from Graham Slee. Again, these models bost lovely build quality, good flexibility and superb sound for not a lot of money.
Amandela
Amandela77
I wanted to ask Jacob if he would recommend the Dynavector P75 Mk2 with the 20XL (phono enhancer) or the Ayre P5xe with the 20XL.(balanced)
It will be used with a VPI Classic, and Ayre AX7e integrated
thanks
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