Best New $3K to $5K Speaker
Jim Hannon -- Thu, 02/09/2006 - 11:36
What are the primary contenders for best new $3K to $5K speaker? (That's per pair)
I'm talking about a speaker that comes close to some of the best, but is within reach for most of us.
Anything notable at CES?
Thanks!
Jim
This may fall a little outside the upper end of the price range, but the new Thiel CS3.7 looks very interesting. It uses Thiel-developed metal diaphragms with corrregations to increase stiffness, a coaxial midrange/tweeter, and a new cabinet-construction method. It was shown at CES but no price was announced. I suspect is will be about $6k-$7k. Jim Thiel has been working on this for a couple of years.
Robert Harley
Editor-in-Chief
The Absolute Sound
The Perfect Vision
HAVE YOU CHECKED OUT THE MARTIN LOGAN VANTAGE??? A LITTLE SMALLER THAN THE 10K SUMMIT BUT STILL SOUNDS AMAZING!!
Jim,
I think you've raised a great question (or at least one that falls squarely in the middle of a major interest area of mine).
Here are some $3-5k/pair speaker suggestions (but note, this is only a starter list and not an exhaustive summary):
Acoustic Zen Adagio (floorstander)
Amphion Xenon2 (floorstander)
Audes Excellence 3 & 5 (floorstanders--new, I think, at CES)
Audio Physic Spark & Tempo (Floorstanders)
Aural Acoustics Model B (floorstander--new at CES)
B&W 703 (floorstander)
Canton Vento 807DC (floorstander)
DALI Helicon 400 (floorstander)
Definitive BP7000SC & BP7001SC (floorstanders w/ built-in powered subwoofers)
Dynaudio Focus 220 (floorstander) & Special 25 (stand mount)
Escalante Designs Juniper (stand mount)
Focal Profile 918 (floorstander) & Electra 1007 Be (stand mount)
Gallo Acoustics Nucleus Reference III Mk II (floorstander--new at CES)
Harmonic Precision Caravelle (standmount)
Hyperion HPS-938 (2-piece floorstander)
KEF XQ5 (floorstander)
Magnepan MG3.6 (planar magnetic floorstander)
MartinLogan Vantage (electrostatic hybrid floorstander)
Nola Viper 1A (floorstander)
Paradigm Reference Signature S4 (stand mount)
Penaudio Alba (floorstander--new at CES)
PSB Platinum T6 (floorstander)
Reference 3A Veena (floorstander--new at CES)
Snell D7 (floorstander)
Sonus Faber Concerto Domus & Grand Piano Domus (floorstanders)
Spendor S8e (floorstander)
Triangle Celius ES (floorstander)
Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System II (floorstander)
Usher Audio CP-6371 & CP-6381 (floorstanders)
Vandersteen 3A Signature (floorstander)
Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand & Beethoven Baby Grand (floorstanders)
Von Schweikert Audio VR4 jr (2-piece floorstander)
Some others to watch for: New Emilie series from Raidho Acoustics, upcoming Strata series from Onix.
'Hope this serves as a useful starting point. Good luck with your quest.
Best,
Chris Martens
Audio Editor, The Perfect Vision
Senior Writer, The Absolute Sound
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Chris,
Just thought I'd point out that you left out the Focus Audio FS-78SE ($3490), which was reviewed in the January issue of The Absolute Sound...(disclaimer: I am a Focus Audio dealer)
Phil Lam
Sonic Spirits Inc.
www.sonicspirits.com
Sonic Spirits Inc.
http//www.sonicspirits.com
Phil,
Good catch on the Focus model you mentioned. It certainly belongs on the list.
Chris Martens
Audio Editor, The Perfect Vision
Senior Writer, The Absolute Sound
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
That's quite a list!
How much better are the offerings ~ $3K vs. those ~$5K?
If you had to pick a speaker system on that list, what would it be and why?
To address Jim's question as to which speaker to buy on Chris Martens' extensive list, and is there a big difference between spending $3k and $5k, I'd say that much of loudspeaker choice comes down to room size, the type of music you listen to, associated equipment, and personal taste. Speakers vary so much in tonal balance and their strengths and weaknesses that there's absolutely no substitute for a personal audition of several models. We at TAS can point you in the right direction and suggest models we've found appealing, but it's a mistake to buy purely on the basis of a review.
In some brands, there is a significant step up in sound quality between $3k and $5k. However, in speakers (more than in any other component), you will find that some lower-priced products outperform higher-priced models. Again, the key is to follow magazine reviews to create your short-list of "must audition" products before choosing the speaker best suited to your room and tastes.
Robert Harley
Editor-in-Chief
The Absolute Sound
The Perfect Vision
Although I agree with this approach in theory, many of the speakers on Chris' list do not enjoy widespread distribution. A dealer might have a couple of them, but that's it.
I certainly get the point and agree with it.
Thanks!
Jim,
Let me expand on Robert's reply, with which I agree, by the way.
Within a given manufacturer's product range, differences between $3k and $5k models are apt to be fairly large (they have to be in order to rationalize pricing structures for the line).
Between manufacturers, the correlation between price and performance can be all over the map, which is part of what makes the game interesting. In short, one manufacturer's $3k/pair speaker might trounce another's $5k/pair speaker. It happens all the time.
In choosing speakers, I advocate a three-point plan:
Point 1: Become familiar with the sound of live music, and find some good reference recordings that capture that sound well.
Point 2: Using you reference recordings as a guide, go listen (and believe what your ears tell you). The more you listen, the more informed your choice will be.
Point 3 (with apologies to The Matrix): Free your mind (i.e., throw biases overboard, base product assessments on observed performance--not hype, and be willing to be surprised).
Forming a short list: I believe the TAS Editors' Choice list makes a good starting point. At the same time, I would caution against getting caught in the trap of thinking, "If a speaker is not on the TAS list, then I won't even consider it." Our intent is to point readers toward "known good" products--not to limit their choices.
Best,
Chris Martens
Audio Editor, The Perfect Vision
Senior Writer, The Absolute Sound
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
I want to throw out a question here if I might. I noted that Legacy speakers are not on your lists, yet I have a friend who swears by them, and some models would fall in the price category. Any comments anyone? Thanks...Howard
To answer Howard's question about Legacy, we have review Legacy speakers very favorably. Anthony Cordesman reviewed the big Whisper and I reviewed the Victoria in Issue 152 of The Absolute Sound. The Victoria is a three-way system with a ribbong tweeter that sells for $3495 per pair.
Robert Harley
Editor-in-Chief
The Absolute Sound
The Perfect Vision
Well, to take a different tack, why not include used (previously owned :wink: ) speakers in the field for consideration. Might not, say, an original set of Quad ESLs afford as much satisfaction as many on Chris' list? Wonder what a used set of Beveridges would cost? 8)
Bob Bubeck
I agree with you! A restored, up-to-spec pair of original Quad ESLs produce one of the most musically accurate sounds I've heard from any loudspeaker, with excellent timbre, coherence, and transient quickness. Unfortunately, many of those in the field are not up to spec as their diaphrams degrade over time (it's actually the coating on the diaphrams).
Several folks restore Quads, both in the US and abroad, and add a clamping circuit to keep them from arcing. A great resource on original Quads is the Quad ESL-57 Hotline drquad [at] pacbell [dot] net/#RECENT%20ITEMS" class="bb-url">http://www.geocities.com/drquad [at] pacbell [dot] net/#RECENT%20ITEMS
As for used Beveridges, like most (all?) older electrostats I suspect they also need to have their diaphrams recoated. I've seen them used in this price range, but I don't know how much it would cost to restore them. Although Harold is no longer with us, his sons are still restoring Bereridges (and selling new ones).
ER Audio in Australia (www.eraudio.com.au) offers a very affordable repair kit for both the ESL 57 and 63.
I personally own two pairs of ESL 57 and have also listened to many top-dollar speakers in my own system and friends', but the ESL 57 is still easily my second favourite speaker (it needs a large-ish listening room to perform at its best, especially for the bass--and hence the overall balance). My favourite, though, is the Timepiece 2.1 from SP Tech (a relatively unknown company; Bob Smith is the designer/owner). If you get a chance to listen to the Timepiece, don't miss it.
Bica
rharleytpv wrote:I'd say that much of loudspeaker choice comes down to room size, the type of music you listen to, associated equipment, and personal taste.
Robert,
Are you saying that if my room is 17' X 12', that $8000.00 for 2 front speakers, might be too much money for a small room?
I am looking at Dynaudio Contour S5.4's and was also wondering when and if TAS/TPV will do a review on them?
Thanks!
Jer
Only knowledge that is used sticks in your mind.
To answer Jer's question about spending too much on speakers for a room of particular size, there's not really a correlation. You want to match the speaker's bass output to the room size---it's easy to overdrive a small room with a big speaker and end up with a thick and heavy presentation. You can still have an ambitous budget in a small room, but by choosing a speaker with greater refinement in the midrange and treble. The MAGICO Mini, which we reported on in our recent CES coverage and is under review by Jonathan Valin for TAS 163, is a perfect example. This is a $22k mini-monitor that makes you question whether any stand-mounted two way can be worth $22k---until you hear it. The Mini would be ideal for a small room, and work less well in a larger room.
Robert Harley
Editor-in-Chief
The Absolute Sound
The Perfect Vision
Hello I recommend to TAS reviewing and everyone looking for one of the best values speakers today - buy Neat Motive 1 ... my vote goes to them.
Regards
Milosjavascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughing
the best cheap speakers are the JBL LSR 6332 Studio Monitors.
they are consistantly ignored by audio writers / critics ( as are
most audio components that don't advertise with them ) .
the JBL LSR 6332 Studio Monitors are about $ 2000 a pair .
they are 3 way speakers with a dome tweeter , kevlar midrange ,
and a twelve inch woofer . the large black cabinet is made from
a composite laminate and there is no grill. these passive monitors
have more room filling guts and subtle detail than any speaker system anywhere close to their price . the LSR 6332s can be powered by
any high quality amp from 15 watts to 1000 watts . they are basically
indestructible . unfortunately , JBL's consumer line is mostly midfi
crap , but this specific model which is sold by pro music dealers
succeeds in almost every detail .
http://www.jblpro.com/LSR6300/LSR6332.htm
hey what about the aerial acoustics model 6 and lr3's
FRDG3's assertion that JBL speakers are overlooked by The Absolute Sound because JBL doesn't advertise in TAS is flat wrong. We haven't reveiwed JBL because no writer has shown interest in reviewing them, they are never demonstrated at shows so that we can get an initial impression, and our past experience with JBL has not been favorable. The model you mention may be an exception, but without some exposure to the product, it doesn't get on our radar.
Interestingly, JBL's sister company, Infinity, has enjoyed many favorable reviews in both The Absolute Sound and The Perfect Vision, yet you'll never find an ad for Infinity in either magazine. We review Infinity because they produce some interesting, high-value products that we think readers want to know about.
Robert Harley
Editor-in-Chief
The Perfect Vision
The Absolute Sound
I'm coming late to this party, but let me add my vote for a restored pair of QUAD ESL-57s. Through an unbelievable bit of good fortune I acquired a pair recently, though I've been a huge fan of the 57 since I first heard them in the early '70s. As you will see in the next issue of TAS, there are aspects of these speakers that make you wonder just how far we've come since 1957 (the year they were introduced). Their midrange purity remains a model of naturalness and their ability to play at low volumes without any losses of color or dynamic nuance is still unrivaled (and give them terrific dynamic "jump" on sforzandos or cresendos). They also have fine bass down to about 40-45hz and, on axis, lifelike treble up to about 12kHz.
N.B. I don't think the 57s would be the right speakers for harcore rock 'n' rollers or power music freaks. But for most classical, jazz, folk, acoustic roc or acoustic music of any kind, they are superb.
To drive them you might consider a NAIM Nait, a vintage ARC D40 (wonderful combo), a QUAD II (or any QUAD amp), or a really good SET like the Lamm ML2 or ML2.1. Just be careful not to overdrive them. (Stick with an amp that outputs less than 33 volts at peak output, and you should be OK, because the 57s are notoriously easy to "blow" if overdriven.)
On the JBL question...though it certainly doesn't qualify as an affordable speaker, the mighty JBL K2 JS9800se made a surprise appearance at last year's CES in the Ayre suite. Usually available only in Japan, the K2 is a three-way floorstanders with horn-loaded supertweeters and horn-loaded mid/tweeters and 15" ported woofers. It is priced at $30k. I later learned, from browsing through a Japanese audio magazine, that the K2 is considered the "best" speaker in the Japanese market--its frequency response is amazingly flat, MAGICO Mini-level flat, from the low 20s on out.
Man, I'd like to test one of those!
What was your impression of the K2 under "show" conditions? It was the first time I had head the K2. Maybe I was reaching the point of maximum daily input of audio, but I wasn't impressed. I am an Ayre fan, I just didn't hear $30k worth of speakers in the room.
As you can see from my show report, I wasn't that impressed either. I thought they were remarkably smooth and free from horn colorations but not as alive as I expected horns to sound. However, having read a bit about them elsewhere, I'm left wondering if they didn't show their best. They certainly measure well--for what that's worth. And I'd like to hear them with my own stuff. On the other hand, the chances of that happening are slim and none. They probably weigh a ton and my listening room is on the top floor of a three-story house.
I heard the K2 at the JBL factory and staggered out of the room in a stupor. They played the system, in a tiny room, at ear-shattering levels. It was one of the most unpleasant hi-fi experiences I've had. I have no idea how the K2 sounds because it was played excruciatingly loudly.
Robert Harley
Uh, that's not a good omen.
Your story reminds me of an experience I had with Klipschorns. I used to frequent a hi-fi store that kept Klipschorns in a back room that was divided off from the rest of the store by a large plexiglass window. I went in one day and I could see someone in the backroom playing the Klipschorns. The sound was so loud--even through the plexiglass--that I turned on my heels to leave. But as I was going I glanced back over my shoulder and saw plaster falling from the ceiling inside the plexiglass room!
The guy was playing the things so loud the roof was literally caving in!
Back to the K2 for a moment, this seems like a perfect example of something that seems to have all of the right stuff, yet does not offer any of the life and nuance you expect from music. I haven't encountered that phenomena very many times in my life, perhaps you gentlemen have.
Highly disappointing.
Well, honestly, Robert didn't really "hear" the K2s, and what I heard at CES left me wondering, in retrospect, if I could actually have been hearing them at their best.
But on your larger point, the answer is yes, I have often encountered speakers that didn't deliver all I'd hoped for or reviewers promised them to be.
I'm bound to make enemies here, but the Wisdom speakers have always struck me (and I've heard them at many, many shows) as a perfect example of this--a speaker that is audibly low in coloration, with excellent staging, very good imaging, very fine inner detail, etc., but, to me, it has always lacked dynamic spark and life. Moreover, its outboard subwoofer never seemed to mate up seamlessly with its ribbon panel.
Another example, were the Gilmores, which for all their dynamic wallop and huge deep bass just never jelled into a single coherent sound--the woofers were so out of balance with the ribbons. (There is a lesson in this, BTW, for those folks who put deep, powerful bass ahead of everything else on the sonic menu.)
Another example along these lines: The Avantgarde Trios. I raved about these speakers in Fi--and they sounded simply marvelous in my home. (Karen Sumner of Transparent almost bought a pair after hearing them at my house.) But...at the first CES at which they were shown, they sounded so thin, threabare, and shrill I felt like a stuttering idiot when I tried to explain why I'd extolled them in print. They have since shown much, much better.
I could go on, but I think I'd better not.
I hear you, people tend to get very riled up if everyone doesn't agree that their speakers are wonderful.
Disclaimer: Any resemblance or likeness of any kind contained in this thread to speakers owned by any audiophile or any other form of home audio enthusiast anywhere is purely coincidental, and the opinions expressed herein do not apply to the speakers you may own and be using. Yours are just fine, and serve as an excellent demonstration of the wonders of equipment synergy and excellent acoustic treatment. :wink:
Intuitive Design Summits are in all probability the finest loudspeakers I've ever heard. The above link is to my incredibly thorough, long-winded, and unsolicited review on Audiogon. The review sounds like a wild exaggeration. It isn't. These are just utterly phenomenal beyond all possible belief, yet virtually unknown, even among many (if not most) of the truly knowlegable and experienced audiophiles. I don't sell them, but finding them has been a wonderful experience. I didn't think that my expectations could be met at this price point, but they've been exceeded. I love these speakers, and I'm still pretty much giddy about how great they are.
Summits: ~$3500/pair
Stands: ~$1400-1500/pair
Stands are the "Path Stand System".
-Bill
I like revel f32's. Intuitive design summits huh? I hope the company does not go out of business before I can listen to a pair.
E
Dale Pitcher's been in the high end audio business for over 25 years and has never had to declare bankrupcy. He SOLD Essence prior to starting Intuitive Design. All that I can say is this: Call him at 307-532-2616 to find out where to audition a pair of these utterly magnificent masterpieces of sonic transduction. I'm still smitten and it's been almost a year since I got these, and I am NOT easy to please with respect to high end audio. And no, I do not work for him, nor do I sell the speakers. I just love them and feel that more audiophiles should know about them.
-Bill
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