Beryllium ribbon tweeters ... can they be made ?
default -- Wed, 09/10/2008 - 12:04
Hi folks,
May of us have heard ribbon tweeters and even some Heil air motion transformer tweeters and planar types. One thing that I have noticed in ribbon tweeters (made of aluminum in all cases so far) is that they tend to have a "chalky" type sound like a "cha" sort of sound that is sort of hollow, cold, and clinical sounding. Certain Aurum Cantus speakers in particular exhibited this as well as the new high end series Monitor Audio stand mounted speaker.
Is it the inherent resolution capabilities of a well designed ribbon tweeter in general or is it an inherent sound trait to aluminum ?
Can a ribbon tweeter be made out of beryllium instead of aluminum or even copper despite its weight being much higher and thus negating some portion of the inherent benefits and reasons for ribbons so that a warmer sound is possible ?
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I believe that beryllium is a hard and brittle material that wouldn't be suited to being used as a ribbon. Such a device would actually be a planar-magnetic rather than a true ribbon. In a true ribbon, the ribbon is electrically conductive, with the audio signal flowing through the diaphragm. In a planar-magnetic transducer, the conductive elements are bonded to the diaphragm.
hello
TAD makes Ribbons using Beryllium diaphragms :
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/archive/PT-R9/index.html
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http://www.audiovoice-acoustics.com/forum/index.php
Interesting links and products to browse through. Thank you.
Thanks for that information. I hadn't heard of those beryllium ribbons.
there are also RAAL Ribbons, which do not use beryllium, but are very well regarded amongst audiophiles, and used for studio monitors.
Some think RAAL's are the best sounding Ribbon tweeters available today.
http://www.raalribbon.com/products_flatfoil_70-10.htm
the Lazy model is a special one for high-efficiency speakers :
http://www.audiovoice-acoustics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253
can they be made or not? :S
Pioneer models DSS-E6, DSS-7, DSS-9, DSS-E10, S-910, and S-1010 all have TAD beryllium ribbons.
I have 3 sets of dss-9s and 2 sets of dss-E6. Beryllium ribbons are the ultimate in tweeters, cymbals sound real, and no other material configuration has the "air" to them that these do. These speakers also have boron midranges, look at your periodic table, you will notice that beryllium and boron are elements numbered 4 and 5 by atomic weight - the lightest and "fastest" metals and work GREAT for sound reproduction. Frequency response up to 120Khz on the pioneer PT-R100. (3,000$ a pair, tweeters only)
The PT-R-29 and PT-R30 found in usa and japanese versions of the DSS 9 is the best tweeter I've personally heard, but only goes up to 50Khz
PT-R9's also go to 120khz spec. Pioneer's website had them for $855 each
I also pulled one of the ribbons from my S-710, (PT-R13 I think it was), this appears to be aluminum. They sound good, but not as realistic as the DSS-9's. They have one medium copper conductor bringing current to the ribbon on each side.
Also, looking at my spare PT-R29, these things are heavy duty. It ways I'm sure 3-4 lbs, and makes the S-710 ribbons look like a joke. It has several layers of thick guage copper bringing the current to the ribbon, which I'm not pulling it apart due to how hard it would be to replace - but I'm pretty sure this is what you would classify as a "true" ribbon design, unlike a planar EMIT type. I managed to find this jewel for I think $40, and was excited as hell when I snatched it up, as they are uber rare. I picked up an extra set of mids and beryllium ribbon tweets from a pair of DSS-E6 for about $50 on ebay, another steal.
They are slightly horn loaded in most applications, or at least with the pioneer/TAD stuff.
so, in conclusion, YES, they have been made.
cost effective? Hell no! I personally don't have experience with more expensive tweeters at the home audio level.
are they worth it? Hell yes!
have rather expensive MB Quart Q line component systems in my car, the titanium tweeters on these sound crisper, but I find it more fatiguing after more than 10 minutes, and don't have the "air" to them. I have infinity interludes in my living room, and the CMMD tweeters on those sound very good, not as harsh or extremely crisp as the titanium MB quart likes to use. I had silk domes in my last set of infinity speakers (RS-5), and they were super smooth, and probably the closest thing to the ribbons for ease of listening at volume without fatigue, but again, nothing sounds as good as beryllium ribbons.
IMO, ribbons are the best tweeter style. Beryllium is undoubtedly the ideal diaphragm material, as it's lighter than oxygen at the molecular level. Lighter than titanium or aluminum, with better damping characteristics, which allow it to not add color to the source material.
It should be noted, however, that beryllium dust is toxic, and it's not the easiest metal to work with, and it's also worth more than gold by weight. This is why so few manufacturers use beryllium, and why the price is so expensive. It's rare on earth, and supposedly believed by scientists to be rare in the galaxy.......
I know the beryllium ribbons of more modern times have screens to prevent tampering with the diaphragm, although on the S-910 and S-1010 there is a diffuser blocking the throat of the horn, but this could very easily be knocked out.
Anyway, sorry to dig up an old thread, but I thought since I did just so happen to know a little bit on the subject, and have the answer to the question posed, I would chime in ! Enjoy your reading, I hope this helps some audio enthusiast!
Hello could some tell me how much pioneer s-910 ribbon tweeters are worth one set, and midrange set
Thank you
Monitor Audio's Platinum series is using a ceramic aluminum/magnesium material on it's drivers, cones and ribbons.
"Ceramic-Coated Aluminium/Magnesium is a material originally developed by the aerospace industry for jet engine components. Its properties are ideal for loudspeaker cones being extremely rigid, yet light enough to yield high overall efficiency. In manufacture, aluminium/magnesium alloy undergoes a three-stage stress-relieving process to remove surface deformation and molecular weakness. Once formed, the alloy cone is subjected to a high temperature anodic coating process in which a layer of pure ceramic alumina is depleted onto its surfaces to a depth of 50 microns, producing a completely rigid sandwich of alloy and heat-dissipating ceramic material. Conventional cones are liable to flex or twist in operation, producing a significant level of audible distortion. C-CAM cones have a much higher resistance to bending stress and therefore exhibit much greater fidelity over their entire operating range. C-CAM tweeters and woofers share an audible consistency producing a smooth transition of frequencies and a sense of realism and cohesion in the soundstage."