Bass Problem
Yiangos -- Fri, 10/06/2006 - 01:18
Hi guys
This is my first posting here(yes,a newbie lol) and i would like to say "hello" to you all.Since English is not my language,i would like to ask you to be patient with me.Anyway,to the problem,which as far as i understand is more complicated and requires more investigation than a simple answer but hey,who knows ! My hi-fi system sounds great,to my ears at least,except in the bass area.To hear good bass,you need to be standing.When i sit down to listen to music,the bass dissapears.It is as if all the bass is developing about 6 feet about the ground.What seems to be the problem here and what can i do about it other than standing when i listen to music ? lol
> To hear good bass,you need to be standing. <
This is very common. The problem is acoustic interference, and the solution is bass traps. It's possible to gain a modest improvement by adjusting the speaker and listener positions, but to truly fix the problem requires acoustic treatment. Since you're asking in this section of the forum, I guess you already knew that! :)
You can read a lot about this in my Acoustics FAQ:
www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Also, the drawing below shows the ideal placements for a typical rectangular room.
--Ethan
www.realtraps.com
The acoustic treatment experts
To be honest,i've read your article about acoustics yesterday,after searching the web for answers.I came across it by chance.I have to admit,it is very interesting and informative.Trgarding bass traps,i though they were those cylindrical objects you place behind loudspeakers ?!?!?!?
But i quess they come in various shapes,right ? Anyway,the real problem i have,is since i live overseas and my English is not that good,is describing my room to an expert so he can advise me how many bass traps and where to place them ! I have access to "auralex" and "echo busters" although if i had to chose,i'd go for the "echo busters",don't ask me why lol ) , do you think either of them will do ?
Yiangos,
> Trgarding bass traps,i though they were those cylindrical objects you place behind loudspeakers ?!?!?!? But i quess they come in various shapes,right ? <
Yes, bass traps come in different shapes and sizes. There's no particular advantage to one shape over another. All that matters is how much bass is absorbed.
> since i live overseas and my English is not that good,is describing my room to an expert so he can advise me how many bass traps and where to place them ! <
There's a lot of advice about that in my Acoustics FAQ, and even more on my company's web site.
> I have access to "auralex" and "echo busters" ... do you think either of them will do ? <
The only way to know if an acoustic absorber is good or not is to see data showing how much is absorbed at each frequency band. Some products are excellent and others are not so good. Especially at low frequencies, that's where you'll find the biggest differences between products.
--Ethan
www.realtraps.com
The acoustic treatment experts
You may also want to run some calculations (assuming you have a roughly rectangular room) to see what loudspeaker positioning best delivers bass at your actual or possible listening positions. RPG has a software product called Room Optimizer that does this. I think it is $99. Probably others have such products, but I've used this one, it is easy to set up and sometimes reveals that your listening position or speaker position is far from ideal.
http://www.rpginc.com/products/roomoptimizer/
T,
> You may also want to run some calculations (assuming you have a roughly rectangular room) to see what loudspeaker positioning best delivers bass at your actual or possible listening positions. <
Prediction software (or manual calcs) can be a useful starting point, but the only way to truly optimize placements is to measure the low frequency response. This can be done using simple tools like sweep tones and a Radio Shack SPL meter. Though the process goes a lot faster if you have dedicated software like ETF.
--Ethan
www.realtraps.com
The acoustic treatment experts
Guys,i aprreciate your response.I do have a radio shack spl meter and quite a few test cd.I even have a velody sms-1 which imho is a much better tool but i do not see how these items will help me.I know what the problem is.I need bass traps.Question is,how many,what kind(flat panels or cylindrical) and where to place them? Anyway,i believe there are two companies over here that can help me.I will try to find their phone number and contact them.I'll let you know.Thanks anyway!
Yiangos,
> i do not see how these items will help me.I know what the problem is. <
I agree.
> I need bass traps.Question is,how many,what kind(flat panels or cylindrical) and where to place them? <
A vendor should be able to provide that information. There's a huge amount of advice in the FAQ I linked earlier, and even more advice in the form of articles, placement drawings, photos, videos, etc on my company's web site.
--Ethan
www.realtraps.com
The acoustic treatment experts
Yiangos,
I'd just like to add a plug for Ethan's company RealTraps. I live in New Zealand so communication with them was via email. Their service is second to none in the promptness of their replies to my questions which eventually led me to emailing some photos and a drawing of my room so they could recommend which traps to use and where best to place them.
I ended up placing two orders (a total of 11 traps) and have been thrilled with the results, easily the biggest upgrade ever to my two channel system.
Room acoustics can seem daunting, and I walked away from it several times before discovering Ethan's website. It just puts it in easy to understand terms, especially the various videos which you can download.
Check it out and drop them a line. At the very least you'll come away a more informed audiophile.
Regards
Rick.
LIVING SOUND
258 Hardy Street
Nelson
New Zealand
www.livingsound.co.nz
Quote:I ended up placing two orders (a total of 11 traps)
You must be single :)
You must be single :)
No, actually married with two kids. :D :D
I would be lying if I told you my wife likes the look of the traps though. :(
LIVING SOUND
258 Hardy Street
Nelson
New Zealand
www.livingsound.co.nz
I know this is an old post of mine but i did some experimentation with my system and after reading A.H.C.'s review on the hansen loudspeakers i would like to add some new findings.
Actually,i never had any bass problems with my room,that is why i post my question in the first place. Like A.H.C. , when i bough my ProAc Response 4s to replace my damaged TDL reference standards , there was a lack of upper bass energy and and a certain upper midrange energy/projection that made listening very unconfortable.After trying almost everything (different speaker location,new ic and speaker cables) i ended up listening to music through my denon AVR-5805 receiver with the Audyssey room correction engaged.This didn't solve the problem completely but at least made the music more "listenable".Then a few weeks ago,i said to myself "what the hell,let's try this one too" and replaced the Jeff Rowland Model 8ti i was using with my old Musical Fidelity A-370 ii . Well,to make a long story short,everything is great now.No more upper mid brightness no more upper bass suckout and best of all,real Bass the way it used to be with my old TDLs. And btw,when i installed the MF in the system,i kept the Denon as the pre-amplifier in place of the Jeff Rowland Synergy ii i was using and which after a quick a-b check found it to be very bright sounding for my taste. Anyway,the only explanation i can think is that of component mismatch.The ProAc are using ATC woofers which are overdamped and together with the Model 8ti's very high damping factor,crashed the life out of the music. Now my next experimentation will be with the turntable since from experience i know when i get the digital part of my system right,the analoque sucks and vise-versa lol
hi are you selling the old TDL
geoffreybedford [at] btinternet [dot] com
Hi anonymous
Nope,the TDLs are not for sale.I hope one day i will find replacement parts and have them working again.
Now,regarding the "bass problems",i have some good news and this should be a lesson to you all.Unlike me,DO NOT BE LAZY! rotfl in moving around your speakers,altough i have a very good excuse.Mine weigh over 300lb each.Anyway,to cut through the chase.I played around with loudspeaker positioning and now everything is perfect.In fact,although not boomy,i'd go as far as to say i have more bass than i wished for. Thanks everyone for help here :)
p.s. anonymus,sorry for the delay in replying to your post but i had a few problems connecting ever since the new look forum.
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