Audio research 210 vs 610T what can I expect in upgrading
geronimo -- Sun, 07/08/2007 - 13:06
I presently own a complete audio reasearch reference system and am thinking of upgrading my 210 mono blocks to the larger 610's. Does anyone have any expierience with the upgrade. Besides costing me more money what can I expect.
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Dear Geronimo,
I have also audio research 210 (+ REF3 + Dynaudio Temptation) and I want to upgrade them to 610. Do you already have any response or experience with this step? Jiri
I have heard a lot arc. Actually, I mean that the ref 210 is quite better than tha ref 610. The ref 610 doesn´t have the original arc-sound, it sounds like some of LAMM products, cold and uninteresting. If the ref 210 isn´t enough for your speakers, trust me you win much more in buying a more sensible speaker, that allways wins. Use your money on a sensible and great speaker..
regards Christian, Denmark
I'll probably never afford them, but would sure like to read more about the 610T's.
Fellas,
I also had Reference 210s before I switched to the 610Ts (or rather before ARC asked me to return the 210s and replaced them with the 610Ts), so I think I can answer your question about what you'll get for the money. (You might want to look at my review of the Reference 610Ts in TAS Issue 177. In it, I cover in detail what I'm going to say in brief here.)
First, you're going to get seemingly limitless power. As good as the Ref 210 is--and I thought it was so good that I hesitated (rather like you are) before agreeing to accept the 610T in its stead--it absolutely sounds as if it's got a power ceiling in comparison to the 610. You might not notice this until you get the 610T in your system and play some of the same music, but the 210 rather regularly bumps its head against that ceiling. It's not that it clips the way a solid-state amp does; it doesn't. It just won't "go" anymore. Beyond a certain point, things don't get louder; they get softer and rounder. I have yet to reach that point with the 610T (although the MBL 101 X-Tremes ought to be a very, very tough test).
Second, unlike virtually every other "big" amp of my experience, the 610T doesn't sound "less discerning" than ARC's smaller amps. In fact, it sounds more discerning. It is audibly higher in resolution, broader in bandwidth, lower in tube-like colorations, wider and deeper in soundstage, faster on transients, and more neutral in balance than the Reference 210 (and not, I am sad to report, by a little bit, either). This is a superb amplifier, whose only weaknesses come with the territory (which is to say, that it is a little soft in the bass and a little soft on top and a little "slower" and less hard-hitting on transients compared to a really great transistor amp, although the differences are surprisingly small).
Third, the 610Ts make your speakers (no matter what kind) "disappear" better than any other amp I've heard, thanks to their inimitably lifelike tonal balance, big lifelike imaging, incomparable bloom and air, and huge soundstage. They simply make solid-state amps (and lesser tube amps) sound colored and two-dimensional, which tends to make speakers sound colored and two-dimensional.
Fourth, they are an incredibly good deal. Like Maggie, ARC offers the fairest pricing top-to-bottom of its line of any truly high-end manufacturer of tube gear. Forty-thousand dollars is nobody's idea of chump change, but think about what you're getting: 610W+ of pentode power into any load down to (and including) 2 ohms. That is a lot of amp for the money.
Hope this helps,
Jon
Thanks Jon:
Since you'll be inserting the '610's back into your system. please keep us apprised of their performance.
Mark
Bump!
Just keeping this thread alive, in case there are other folks out there besides JV, who have these amps in their possession and would like to comment.
I've got the 610Ts at home driving Mini 2.
Basically, they were ordered by someone else, who cancelled the order when the amps arrived, and the (clever) dealer said he'll bring them over and leave them with me for a couple of weeks to try.
I hadn't even remotely considered spending $40k on an amp, but there was no way they were going back! They transformed the sound of the Magicos. It's all what JV says and more - I'm not good enough a writer to put into words the pure musicality coming out of them. These amps are truly beyond hifi and must be heard.
So I justifed my purchase by saying to myself that this is the last amp I will ever buy :)
Zeb wrote:So I justifed my purchase by saying to myself that this is the last amp I will ever buy :)
Good tip. Mind if I borrow it in my next hifi-upgrade conversation with my wife? :-)
Zeb wrote:I've got the 610Ts at home driving Mini 2.
Basically, they were ordered by someone else, who cancelled the order when the amps arrived, and the (clever) dealer said he'll bring them over and leave them with me for a couple of weeks to try.
I hadn't even remotely considered spending $40k on an amp, but there was no way they were going back! They transformed the sound of the Magicos. It's all what JV says and more - I'm not good enough a writer to put into words the pure musicality coming out of them. These amps are truly beyond hifi and must be heard.
So I justifed my purchase by saying to myself that this is the last amp I will ever buy :)
How do you keep your room cool?
SundayNiagara wrote:
How do you keep your room cool?
In summer, I strip :)
I have a large room with a cathedral ceiling (over 7m high) so the heat spreads a bit. It does get quite warm in summer, but thankfully summer nights are not too bad where I am and there's always a bit of a breeze blowing. In winter, they help heat the place (which also has lots of windows), so I save :) See? Another reason to buy them. I am sure that over the rest of my lifetime they will amortise part of their cost in saved heating :)
You should hear how the little Magicos fill that room with glorious sound :)
Zeb wrote:SundayNiagara wrote:
How do you keep your room cool?
In summer, I strip :)
I have a large room with a cathedral ceiling (over 7m high) so the heat spreads a bit. It does get quite warm in summer, but thankfully summer nights are not too bad where I am and there's always a bit of a breeze blowing. In winter, they help heat the place (which also has lots of windows), so I save :) See? Another reason to buy them. I am sure that over the rest of my lifetime they will amortise part of their cost in saved heating :)
You should hear how the little Magicos fill that room with glorious sound :)
Where are you located and, (I should know this already) which Magico's are you using?
Istanbul, and I am using the Mini 2.
If anyone else has comments, (geronimo?) I'd sure like to read them.
My 210s hit the wall w/my 90db/4 0hm VMPS RM40s. They sound sensational, but they run out of gas eventually. Frustrating. I did not have this issue w/the 200wpc hybrid amp the 210s replaced.
Those amps are not for head-bangers. Try lowering the volume slightly.