Are YG Speakers hype or the real deal?
David Matz -- Mon, 01/19/2009 - 15:57
In your latest issue Jon has awared the YG Kipods Best of Show award.
The ads in the magazines claim that these are the "best". Pretty strong claim, considering there are some killer Wilson, MBLs, and Focals in the elite price point category.
I heard them for 15 minutes, and I thought they were very good for a non-electrostat, but they were $40K. They were more 3 dimensional than the CLX that I was listening to just prior to them, but lacked the transparency, sound stage, and air that I love from electrostats. (They were driven by Manley amps and Krell Evo preamp, with simaudio and krell sources.)
Jon, you have had the good fortune to listen to some killer stuff over the last 6 months. What are your thoughts?
What does everyone else think?
Thanks!
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I heard them at CES and didn't like them at all. I found them hard and totally uninvolving.
First of all Zeb,
I heard the YGs numerous times...first and foremost sorry Zeb but hearing is impossible at a "trade show"!!!
nothing is ideal and usually the listening rooms are terrible...so writing a speaker off or taking an electronics to the moon with praises with what you and i hear on "trade shows" is impossible...
When I first listened to the anat reference I, i thought exactly like you...hard and totally uninvolving...
not in a trade show..not in a dealers room...at a friends home...
but my feelings have changed 180 degrees when i heard the Anat reference II... just last week i have ordered the upgrade kit an fitted it with YG dealer in my home town and boy what a difference it makes...its more involving than most of the speakers i have heard...is it the best speakers in the world? hardly! as no one speaker can be....please refer to JVs MBL reference speakers review...though he Jon found the speakers great, timbre wasnt as good as Magico, transparency wasnt as good as Martin Logan CLXes and so on... its an evidence that no one electronics or speaker can be truely the best..
my only problem with YGs (and its only a personal thing after hearing how good the Reference IIs are) is the active subwoofer YG uses...or the fact of the matter that any speaker that uses an active subwoofer.. me personally dont like the idea of an active subwoofer in my room..it always create a ??? at the back of my mind...is the volume of the sub ok? is the crossover point ok? 50hz or blah blah...i just want to listen to music...not think about what the sub or nay other part of the system is doing.. if i didnt have this issue with the active subs there would have been only one speaker for me that i can label " the best speaker in the world" ...and let me give you a secret...it would have been martin logan summit...
but oh those active subs...turned me off immediately...
in short , as much as I value anyones point of view...writing off a a speaker/electronics due to their performance in a "trade show" is unfair!... its like writing off an electronics cause its not as good in giving you what YOU are looking for...what you are looking for might be what others are running away...or vice versa...this is usually the case with most speakers and cd players.. in my personal experience...at least...
curiousmind....as for your comment..."Pretty strong claim, considering there are some killer Wilson, MBLs, and Focals in the elite price point category."....
I completely agree that is a pretty strong claim...but considering wilson? MBL? and especially FOCAL?... to me FOCALs are simply the worst speaker in the world...period!.... but its my own taste..if a speaker turns an instrument 20* its size...its not called a success...its called a disaster in my experience...thats what focals excel in doing...but then again its a personal taste...
and please dont attack me on being a YG user or anything remotely close to it...
I DO NOT OWN YG but ANAT REF 2 is one helluva speaker..hardly the best speaker though...
"writing off a a speaker/electronics due to their performance in a "trade show" is unfair!... its like writing off an electronics cause its not as good in giving you what YOU are looking for...what you are looking for might be what others are running away..."
Well, yes, I agree with this bit. I've qualified where I heard them and I said that I didn't like them, describing how they sounded to MY ears. I didn't make a general statement in that they were rubbish or anything like that.
With all the show caveats, they were some pretty good sounds at CES. To my ears, the YG room was not one of them, and I had no desire to go back. Their very large room might have put them at a particular disadvantage - I have no idea. Will make sure to give them a listen in a better environment if the opportunity comes along.
Zeb, I agree with you that it was not one of the better sounding items at the show however the critic comes from someone saying that the Focal is the worst speaker in the world !!!! I am sorry Sir but that leaves little credibility to me. If you don't like them that is certainly your choice but they are NOT deserving that statement and you saying that severely limits your credibility.
Speakers such as YG, JM Labs and Wilson are not my cup of tea. That said, the YGs are very good at what they do.
Larry
"Digital finishes what the transistor began" James Boyk
Elliot,
i repeat myself...no one speaker or electronics can be the BEST on earth period...if that would have been the case dealers like you would have been jobless (please dont take it the harsh way)...we would all be buying the Best speaker, best electronics, cd amp whatever it might be and there would have been one brand for all components making it harder to be a hifi dealer...
what i am saying is very simple....if the new grande utopias turn a violin into a dbl bass dimensions, thanks but no thanks...its not for me...to me thats the worst thing a speaker can do...
as for my credibility... i didnt know we earn credibility with our personal views here... and i labeled focals in general as the worst speakers in the world only due to my personal choices... i think that focal and b&ws are all speakers that play all kinda music the same way...they have a signature in their sound..some might like it...but not for me..if anything they are mid fi sound to my ears... to my ears only......wilsons i like but have positioning problems and only one sweet spot for listening in my view...soundstaging is amazing from that point but you move a few inches and you miss the magic...
krells have been to harsh for my liking but the new evo one and two are almost like products from another company but krell.. and the experience list goes on.....therefore things and tastes and hearings evolve over time.(the older we get i am sure we will like diamond tweeters/horns/silver cables more as our hearing goes down).to label some as the best in the world or worst in the world can only be due to personal choices at best and can only be done in a listening enviroment...not at dealers show rooms or trade fairs was my point thats all
I actually own a pair of the YG main modules and they were the easiest choice I've ever made! I had a chance to compare them next to Mini I's et al. before buying and never looked back since. I have also talked to yaov a couple times and his recommendations with respect to amplificaiton and cabling have been spot on. You should use a current friendly amp and avoid the likes of Odin (my views not yoav's)
I am not sure about the show conditions but what you should expect to hear with YG main modules in your own listening room, first and foremost, is the next gen soundstaging. (curiousmind said also something to that effect). It is so deep and precise with respect to placement that you need a period of adjustment before you realize what is going on and start enjoying it. it is eerie. I guess part of it comes from the standard setting low tolerance between the right channel and the left.(+/- 0.7 db if i am not mistaken) and the aluminum-titanium enclosure. the drivers are not that speical and i can see them contributing to the cold/uninvolving sound. but that is said to have been addressed with Anat II's which I have heard in unfamiliar conditions.
I found that " best speaker on earth. period" thing a little bit too aggresive, too, I must admit but yg along with magico are indeed the names to beat nowadays. i hear they see each other as the closesest competition as well.
With all due respect guys, the YG is the biggest hoax I have seen in this industry. And I have seen many. What is essentially a two way Scan Speak kit and a sub (With cheap hypx sub amp) put in a narrow metal enclosure and sold for lots of money with claims that are absolutely ridicules. I can’t believe nobody has pointed out to some of the nonsense this guy has been spewing. Like “better than zero loss” (He has created a black hole inside his box) or no need for damping since his tolerances are so high, his woofers back wave somehow disappear. I mean why waste your time building speakers? He should put his brilliant mind to solve the energy crisis. Everything about this guy and his company is as slimy as they come. I practically like his racist claim that he is one of the only foreigner to ever win the Japanese Grand-Prix award. 90% of the winners of any GP award we have are non-Japanese companies… Unbelievable!
With all due respect guys, the YG is the biggest hoax I have seen in this industry. And I have seen many. What is essentially a two way Scan Speak kit and a sub (With cheap hypx sub amp) put in a narrow metal enclosure and sold for lots of money with claims that are absolutely ridicules. I can’t believe nobody has pointed out to some of the nonsense this guy has been spewing. Like “better than zero loss” (He has created a black hole inside his box) or no need for damping since his tolerances are so high, his woofers back wave somehow disappear. I mean why waste your time building speakers? He should put his brilliant mind to solve the energy crisis. Everything about this guy and his company is as slimy as they come. I practically like his racist claim that he is one of the only foreigner to ever win the Japanese Grand-Prix award. 90% of the winners of any GP award we have are non-Japanese companies… Unbelievable!
I liked the Kipod at RMAF. I didn't say they were "Best of Show."I said they were the "Biggest Surprise," because I hadn't been previously impressed by YG Acoustics loudspeakers.
When Yoav asked me to tell him honestly what I thought of the Anat References at CES 2009, I asked him if he had a death wish. They sounded horrible. But, as I told Yoav, virtually everything I've heard in those gigantic Sands Expo rooms has sounded horrible (except for the remarkable Amphion Krypton 2 speaker, which is designed, a la Gradients, with controlled dispersion to take the room out of the equation--and does). The very same rooms killed the MBL 101 X-Tremes and every German Physiks that was parked there.
I'm glad Jon and Elliot confirm I wasn't suffering from an attack of over-exposure to the M5s :)
Having said that, and however they sound like in proper conditions or not, I have to agree taht their claims are quite outrageous.
Dear Oz,
First you are entitiled to like what ever you choose. I agree there is no one best at anything for everyone in audio however I have the Grand Utopia EM's in my showroom and they absolutely do not do what you are saying. I don't know where you heard them , or how set them up, but they just do not do what you say in my store. I have played them for many clients and industry people and NO one hs made a comment like yours. They completely disappear, they can sound as large as a full orchestra and as intimate and small as a solo vocalist or violin. I am not saying that you have to like them, but they are not what you say they are. Whether they are the world's best that is not for me to say but I have been in the business for a long time and I will say that the room and the set up is waht makes a system great. The parts are only the tools to get to that goal. Many people buy "the best" but the result is crap that's waht happens when ones total experience is what they read.
I read a book last night about brain surgery I am not however a brain surgeon! I mean no insult to you or anyone here but too many talk the talk but can not walk the walk.
On new Utopias based on very little exposure,
I think they are a lot better looking and sounding than their predecessors. But one tends to get carried away too much when a big speaker can actually disappear or play a fast bass line. I would pick the big Wilsons over the Grandes any day of the week.
Very little exposure and yet you can make such an unqualified statement. You have made my point thanks!
Funny cause the Wilson's can do neither in my experience which is not that limited
Hi Elliot,
I have owned the Mezzo's and the alto's and coveted the nova's and grande's for longer than I want to remember. but I have to agree with oz on many fronts now: the second generation utopia was the worst for the money; the be's had too much treble energy which focal tried to counterbalance with too much bass energy, robbing the music off the mid-range beauty and overall balance.
with the third gen utopias, focal does a much better job (evident from a ½ hour audition) but concurrently increases the prices so much that the value proposition is still not there for me.
contrary to what you think, we do not pay monopoly money for these babies and bear the consequence of making unqualified judgements.
before you get any more tense, please note that i agree with you on krell evo 202's and 400's which I have ordered to use with the yg anats.
I never said they were cheap, or economical. I know that they are a fine instument and have the ability to be tuned precisely in a room. I have done this is three seperate locations with amazing results to clients that can afford them.
Big systems require a lot of work to get the results that one should if you spend that amount. Most audiophiles will never get those results becasue they do not know how to get there. They make snap judgements with odd value systems.
They have not obtained the set of skills needed to make a system work and never spend the time to analize the problems but blaim the tools not the craftsman. They make uneducated statements without back up.
I have never heard the speakers you like sound good, that does not mean they can't but I have never heard that happen and I have never read anything that establishes them in the same arena as some of the other products mentioned.
They are ugly to boot!
Look, I can have nothing against the EM's and actually said they looked and sounded better than the earlier utopias. no i did not try them at home and i believe the dealer can do a better job of setting them up. I actually owned the alto's and have followed the brand very closely for at least 10 years. finally, I never claimed the superiority of my own speakers
but I believe jmlab and b&w started (and sustained) this kHz race with their be and diamond tweeters which led to the creation of a whole generation of speakers with an instantly recognizable weakness, the treble energy that you could not control without taxing the overall balance, most notably the midrange.
both brands are also playing to become large consumer companies, which I do not like. They have no choice but to adopt this “what shall we invent this year” attitude. it is the lever at the back this year and god knows what kind of nuisance the next. meanwhile, they have lost the concept of a house sound. and in order to sell high volumes they need to have the dealer on their side, meaning they inflate the prices to give the dealer mind-boggling margins.
i want my exclusivity, i want to see elements of enthusiasm not consumerism, and an even vague value proposition. i am not saying that jm do not offer these, quite the contrary. they can also be very good inventing things. they just distanced themselves a little bit from me, do you know what I mean?
Dear Elliot
you wrote
"First you are entitiled to like what ever you choose. I agree there is no one best at anything for everyone in audio however I have the Grand Utopia EM's in my showroom and they absolutely do not do what you are saying. I don't know where you heard them , or how set them up, but they just do not do what you say in my store. I have played them for many clients and industry people and NO one hs made a comment like yours. "
exactly my initial reaction to Zeb in writing off a speaker heard in a trade show...I rest my case...
on the focals...i have listened to several (old or new version ) and they have never ever disappeared and have always been harsh on the highs for me...only for me..
I made my point and you yours ...enough said.
Listening to the EM's at Elliot's, I did not hear harsh-sounding highs. These speakers simply wrap the sound around you.
Mark
Thanks Mark, are you coming next week to the grand opening events? Check the website for details?
One last time for those who might want to learn something
New grand has very little in common with old grand
there are numerous adjustments to fine tune the speaker in the room they are used with both the EM magnet ( external) and a series of jumpers internal. The alignment of the top part of the speaker is also critical in getting the speaker to sound its best
All drivers need thorough break in ( 200 hours minimum IMO) before they sound thier best.
The comment I hear the most... THE MOST is wow they totally disapear. so if they didn't where you heard them you didn't hear them set up correctly!
IMHO if a speaker doesn't disappear it is not for me.
" IMHO if a speaker doesn't disappear it is not for me."
Good comment - I totally agree.
Hey Zeb, How's things? Hope things are well with you and that you are having success in your cd search.
To bad you can't be here this week I have 808.2, CD-8, Puccini with clock and Scarlatti all in one room!@!!!
All good here, except that my VPI is annoying me to no end. I've "upgraded" to the Rim Drive and I am starting to feel this was a big mistake. The whole thing is sitting on a Ginko table and I can't get the tonearm to stop shaking when I switch the table on. It's as if there's a bump in the rim drive (or the platter) that is causing this shaking. I think I'll go back to the belts, having wasted a fair sum of money. On the other hand, with the english pound comitting suicide, the SME 20/12 looks very attractive. I might do a part exchange.
Not yet auditionned the 808.2 - it's available at a local dealer. I'll borrow it one weekend and test it vs my Meitner. Would have been fun and instructive to be in Florida .. As far as the CD-8 is concerned, I still prefer the CDSD/DAC 6e, despite the fact that the CD8 is a good improvement on the 7.
Having said that about the pound, the 808.2 should also be getting much more attractive :)
What I REALLY want to hear if I manage to drop by one day is your big Focals!
I'm also curious about YG Acoustics' products, so I'll be visiting the factory in about three weeks for a firsthand look at the build quality and to gain some insight into the designs. I also hope to get some "seat time" with their various models during the trip. I'll post a full report in my blog, complete with photos.
The Kipod sounded fabulous at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest—quick, dynamic, detailed, uncolored, and highly resolving.
If you're referring to the system at the end of the hallway of exhibits near the bar, I have to wonder if we listened to the same speakers. I went there late in the show and couldn't get out of there fast enough. Totally uninvolving and dry sounding, they sounded like two monitors plunked on top of some pyramidal woofer bases and called attention to themselves -- the sound came out of the speakers, which didn't disappear at all.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
I'm not sure if this was the exact same system that was at CES (looks the same though), but your comments are pretty spot on what I heard at CES.
We'll have a full evaluation of the Focal Grande Utopia EM in the June/July issue (which mails to readers on April 28).
Robert are you reviewing them? The grands that is?
RH, I am Looking forward to your explanations of YG claims...
opinion has been very divided on yg’s. Few products recently garnered such opposing views in the forum, so it will be interesting to hear RH’s take...
the company motto is a major major turn-off, I agree, but I represent “yg is the next magico” camp and think RH is onto a big discovery.
The dealers in this forum do not like this product, which is ALWAYS a good sign :-)
Put whatever spin on it you want, but the truth will come out. A spade is a spade, and a dog is a dog.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
Regarding the Be tweeters, Jules Coleman said it best: Every time I hear the Be tweeters, I hear the Be tweeters."
And I agree with the post above; the desire for full frequency response has done audio more harm than good.
My two cents...
Larry
"Digital finishes what the transistor began" James Boyk
While at RMAF 08 this year, every speaker except the Usher Be Exemplar mod that had Be tweeters had the same highs. I mentioned this in other forums. The Be highs are not for me in any way. Too "hissy" is how I would describe it. I think people w. different hearing will experience Be tweeeters differently. I wonder if TAS would test for this. Also, I found the Ion tweeters in 2 systems to have a similar type highs to a Be tweeter. Basically, I am in agreement w. Jules Coleman on this one.
mcduman, You are funny. They have been trying to be the “next Magico” thing for quite some time now. Do not seems to catch on. We all heard them in one form or another in many different shows over the past few years. Sonically, what is essentially a two way Scan Speak kit in an aluminum box leave a lot to be desire. Add-on their ridiculous claims as “better than zero loss” and flat out lies about their construction methods imaginary prizes and driver origin, and you find yourself a real ‘winner’. There is always going to be an audiofool out there that will fall for that. It is a shame that some reviewers will too.
Man, you guys are tough.
I'm not 100% sure at this point, but it looks like I may be reviewing the Kipod later in the spring, which, considering how critical i've been of many of Yoav's show demos and how high I am on Magico loudspeakers (including the M5, which will be on its way to me shortly), says something about YG Acoustics' chutzpah, if nothing else. I'll start a thread about the Kipod (assuming I do end up reviewing it) when it arrives.
Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures...
heh-heh-heh!
So the almighty power of the dark forces in the audio industry will make all of us bow before the yg speakers, shattering JV’s world of beauty and magic-o. how tragic.
and, matt. I do not know your standpoint in life or general understanding of “things”, but if “Scan Speak kit in an aluminum box” is what is bothering you, then you will have a hard time enjoying a fine swiss watch which is all springs and screws. Or wine or cigars or whatever for the same reason. this is all about being an enthusiast, you know, and seeing things beyond their face value
Now, now.
I wouldn't review the Kipod if I didn't think it was promising.
i would not doubt that 1 second, that is why we are here in this forum
This is where you are mistaken. Loudspeakers design and value propositions are not subjective. Listening to hi-fi, is not like tasting wine or smoking a cigar or enjoying a fine Swiss watch. If some of these products would have been watches, they will not be able to show you the actual time. It is people like you that are supporting the crap that this industry has been producing for years. It is your prerogative to enjoy whatever it is you wish. But if you want to discuss it, you better bring some tangibles to the table. You can start by explaining “better than zero loss”. Perhaps some of the enthused reviewers can help you do that.
I listened to the Anat Reference II for more than 3 hours in the previous CES show.
http://www.dtown.co.il/index.php?news=251
(Sorry about the language :-)
My impression was that they had a very good top-to-bottom coherence, huge soundstage, very good transient response and deeply extended and powerful bass.
Tomer
From the pictures it is clear the speakers demo'd at RMAF were the Anat Reference IIs, as they were pretty tall and had an MTM driver arrangement on the monitor section. My comments on them stand.
Here is a link to the page Tomer posted:
http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=iw|en&u=http://www.dtown.co.il/index.php?news=251
Sorry, copy and paste seems to be necessary since the message editor here strips down the link.
Brian Walsh
Essential Audio ~ Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)
matt you need to understand that we can be in different stages of our audiophile lives, you might be at a stage where you find it more rewarding to explain, rebel or express your anger. Meanwhile, I can taste and appreciate. i need not justify any of my decisions or preferences. the piece that I value most in my system is opus mm2 cabling, the price of which I cannot even imagine discussing with people let alone justifying it.
speaking of swiss automatic watches, their timekeeping is not on a par even with with cheap quartz watches due to effects of gravity. So, contrary to what you think, you do not actually enjoy them because they tell you the time with utmost accuracy (i am excluding tourbillons). do you now make the connection with being an enthusiast?
...The Anat Reference II will get a full review in Stereophile March issue, by Wes Phillips.
<<...The Anat Reference II will get a full review in Stereophile March issue, by Wes Phillips.>>
And your point is? : )
Jonathan wrote:
<<And your point is? : ) >>
This will be the first pro review for the Anat II, that perhaps we will be expose if they are hipe or "The best loudspeaker on earth. Period!".
Yes I am sure he will “expose” the hype of a company that takes 2 page ad every month in the magazine. YG is SP biggest client. Do not expect anything but praises.