Anyone out there willing to pay full price for a non-aluminum Magico speaker?

Curious,

As I see it, your problem is with how quickly Mr. Wolf increased the quality and price/performance ratio of his latest Magico model, the Q5 compared to his past model, the M5 etc., and likewise, the competition. You would he, to "run a successful business", delay the introduction and announcement of the Q5 for a year or two, to allow for sales of the existing model? In other words, not do and give his customers his best? That would be unfair to him and the customers of the Q5.

I'm a headphone guy, as you can tell from my name, and currently use a pair of Stax Omega II headphones with a SRM-007t tube amplifier which I picked up in Tokyo for a song. They sounded nicer than the Wilson loudspeakers I was considering at the time, and the mid-fi PSB Stratus Gold's that a friend had passed on to me, which I still use in my bedroom, computer room, and living room, for background music. Now since I purchased the Stax package, Stax has come out with a number of more advanced headphones and headphone amplifiers at better price-performance ratios. I think I paid $3000-3500 USD, which was good and I gave my old pair of Stax Sigmas with their headset/amp adaptor to a friend who was going away, as I didn't need them anymore. Also I saved a song, around $100,000-$150,000 on not getting those Wilsons and some Mark Levinson gear to drive them. Also since that time, Sony came out with their bio-cellulose technology for around $4000, which should be better than the Stax with a good headset amplifer, and look at all these new multi-driver in-your ear headphones, that would eat my IPod Entoymotic ER 4's for dust.

After I heard how much better my Stax headphones sounded than my PSB's speakers, I didn't bother to sell them and waste my time that way, I simply moved them out from their in-room "hi-fi" positioning, to by the room's corners, where they were/and are better for parties (think bass-reinforcement) and house-guests who no longer would have to move around them to get to my kitchen, etc. Much more logical layout, since I live in a Condo, and never built the home with a dedicated listening room I was going for.

Now before I had my 5 mid-fi PSB Stratus Gold's which I got from a departing friend for initially home theatre use (though they would be good, since they were all identical and had a deep bass response), I had a set of Klipsch Heressy II's (initally 2 then 3) and then KG 1.2's (rear) with a Velodyne F1500 (sub) which I had got for my long ago as a music student interested in blasting my other college mates with low-frequencies from my res-room. I simply gave my Klipsch/Velodyne "studio" setup to another music friend, who has them now mated to a receiver in a nice wood-walled home theatre setup with a good front-projection screen. When ever I go over to visit my friend, I can watch movies or play silly video games on this old system which still gives me some nostalgia, and some nice happiness to see it well-used and looked after. Same with another brief system, consisting of Rotel and NHT gear (loved that black piano finish) which went to a friend's daughter as she got into music at an old school of mine.

What am I saying with all my rambling? First, it's rare for an audiophile to just have one system. Some of us have had little museums at one times of cherished components, like car people collect cars. I have one friend who seems to buy a used Mercedes or BMW a week, though I think they all look alike, and I have no idea where he finds the garage space for them all, or buyers for them, when he gets bored of them. Think if you had to keep all of your girlfriends? Where would that put your sense of adventure as a young man? When we have space, we tend to keep things, and move old things to less used rooms or rooms with other functions. Otherwise, we adapt. Unless we're addicted to purchasing, it's pretty easy to find the space, or a friend who wouldn't mind an "upgrade".

I can't see how someone with a Magico M5 can't find the space in their palatial abode to move it, should they upgrade to an Ultimate II or say, to a Q5, as you seem to have in mind. Besides the two (M5 and Q5) look quite different. An M5 might look good in an office if someone was music minded and had a similar wood decore, while the Q5 wouldn't, to my way of looking.

I'm sure a lot more of us would of gotten B&W Matrix 800's when they came out, had they not looked so odd: I was struck with 801's at the time, which were odd themselves (still can't stand the look of the newer "Nautilus" 800-series) but couldn't find a suitable amp to mate with them at the time with enough power and really make their bass shine despite countless recommendations and consequent auditions. Maybe the Aragon 8008 did it for the bass, but it wasn't as nice as the YBA gear on the high-end. Oh well.

There is more to a speaker than sound when it comes to selling, I am saying: look at home many speaker models are shown through the years pictured next to fairly attractive models to illustrate the "hi-fi" lifestyle. Magico speakers are OK in the looks department, and OK in the sound department also, n'est pas? I'm not really a hi-fi guy, but like audio as a means to play my own music and that of my friends. More mid-fi / studio, I'd say, with an emphasis in the bass department, though my natural instruments are the saxophones and electronic ones, after that.

Magico's may or may not be my cup of tea - certainly the Ultimate II's look interesting, and I've always wondered about GOTO and such compression drivers and the like, and how some Japanese and others build whole-home audio systems, with wonderfully large horns.

I do like how Magico tends to come out with better-sounding and now cheaper-pricing models, which seems to be your contention.

In my way of looking, someone with $90,000 (about the same as what I was once thinking with Wilson's) to spend on speakers, can afford to give away that money, and certainly afford to upgrade, when the time comes.

My only one regret with hi-fi was purchasing a used Lyra Clavis DC, ET-2 tonearm, and VPI HW19 (with better pump and the speed-selector box) turntable setup, which was so finicky that I was always adjusting it to get those heavy Blue Note jazz pressings to sound good, and ending up accidentally breaking the cantilever on the Lyra off, so eager was I to replace a turntable belt after a long wait for them to arrive, and listen to some records I had bough in the meantime. So I ended up trading the system, minus the cartridge for a couple of DJ style speed-adjustable CD players for a dance studio I went to, which felt good. I lost $3000 value on the cartridge, and never quite enjoyed the system, compared to CD's, what a fuss it was, especially around visiting children, but I chalk it up to experience. Now I have a low-fi Sony turntable in it's place with a low-end Grado MM cartridge, the turntable I found while throwing out my garbage, and I get at least as much pleasure out of it than I did with my Lyra/ET/VPI system.

Anyway, while a $45,000 loss isn't pocket change, I'll admit, if you happen to by a hypothetical M5 seller in your scenario bitten with the Q5 upgrade bug, it's a good salary these days, or abouts, I'll give you, it's "Stereo money". :)

Considerably less than what would you pay for a car or home, I'm saying, in the scheme of value. Hopefully you should have more in the bank, to tide you over between paycheques, if you're a working man, and happen to be between jobs.

Now I'm not sure, if I would give away a M5 (it's a big-think physically big and heavy) item, like a bottle of wine, or like I've given away my NHT/Rotel's, Stax, Klipsch/Velodyne, or, in trade, VPI/ET/Lyra rig. I'd probably trade it in, or sell it, since it's a "big-ticket" item in most people's minds, and might hurt a friendship, like lending money has proven to be, in my experience.

The friend of mine who sort of collects cars who I mentioned, also sort of collects luxury brand goods, mostly out of laziness, I feel. When I noticed he had more than one Rolex, and two nice ones at the $60,000 "El Presidene" level which I admired as a kid (with the diamonds around the bezel!), and he typically wore when we were out hitting the town together, he offered to sell me one of them for $10,000 - my choice of the two. One was in a dark gold, and the other was with a lighter, more flashy, still yellow gold, which I liked more, but also looked "cheaper." Now this was really nice of him, I felt - take a $50,000 loss on a watch he liked and wore. But I didn't want to wear something "used" -no such scruples with my electronics- as much as I liked it, and didn't want to take advantage of his purchasing power, also. I was happy with my metal $20 watch with a sport-car like yellow face and still ran like new.

If someone's paying $100,000 on a stereo and doesn't have a nice income, and at least a million in the bank, I feel sorry for them. It's a poor sense of priorities, when it comes to dealing with the necessities of home economics, especially if future income earning potential is in question. You may see economics and spending differently, but most of my non-audiophile friends usually spend a few thousand on a stereo and think that's a lot of money for "hi-fi" as they see it.

So we've talked a bit about numbers, which was your problem with Magico.

If Magico prices were increasing like those of Solution Audio, say, and their new models were getting worse -and- more expensive than their previous models, then I would feel something is something is wrong with the picture, but that isn't what is happening here. We have a very nice increase in affordability and corresponding decrease in size. By your logic, maybe we should feel "sorry" for the Model 6 owners, since in my mind, the Q5 looks much nicer for a newer model, and I imagine it's also much cheaper. I'm not sure if Model 6 owners would agree with you. Maybe they've already moved their Model 6's the pool-side and moved in big MBL's if they're "dissatisfied" with the Magico sound, long-term? :)

I just don't see how people with millions or more at their discretionary disposal can feel upset at the release of newer, better models. Rather, it adds fuel to the purchasing fire, I expect: more to look forward to, more to be interested in or wonder about?

If this is the case, let's feel sorry for car enthusiasts who have newer, sometimes better models coming out ever year or so, leap frogging the competition in real, easy to measure statistics, like top speed, etc. Let's feel sorry for kids with nicely coloured Bughatti Veyrons who have to get rid of them because they're now "obsolete" because of the Super Sports' 431.072 km/h beating their 408.47 km/h (253.81 mph), and nice orange-accent and "bare-metal" look.

We can feel sorry for the fathers that "have to" purchase these cars for their kids, but I have yet to meet a father who gives their kid a Magico/Solution based hi-fi, which seems to be the audiophile equivalent today.

I guess your attack on Magico and dire warning to potential Magico customers really "got my goat." :) I wished I lived in a word where there would be a Magico dealer in my city (Vancouver, BC, Canada). We have billions to spend in taxes here for faux Olympics (not enough snow on the mountain they chose, etc.and poor conditions, etc. - why they didn't move the venues to one that did, I have no idea :)), and yet not enough to provide cheap public loudspeakers for our annual "Symphony of Fire" summer fireworks extravaganza, set to music by the beach, I have no idea.

Now, with the economic recession, we hardly have hi-fi dealers anymore, with both listening rooms -and- a decent selection of higher-end equipment. Most have either gone mid-fi our out of business. One has prospered, but an upgrade in renovation has left it feeling cold to visit, so I can't care for what brands it may carry. One has come into business with lots of equipment, but no space to audition, after I would rather listen in a listening room than in a showroom floor, if I am to consider spending my money. What is the point of hi-fi stores if they are not salons for us to visit and congregate in, exchange views, and perhaps pick something up, if we are in the mood?

I feel it must be wonderful to live nearby a city better endowed with dealerships such as Tokyo, New York, many even in Greece, where they value hi-fi more than here, and serve brands like Magico.

I would say hi-fi is a curious / cute hobby in the scheme of things, if I were a woman looking at it. One can go to dinner parties, and exchange conversation in interesting places, if one has a husband who likes to travel to curious places like hi-fi dealerships and friends with hi-fi systems. One can meet the families. One is catered to, and entertained, with conversation and lattes, or perhaps wine if it is some manufacturer's demonstration or a dealership. One gets the chance to browse around timidly and listen to minutia in things. Despite this paragraph, and one comment earlier of mine on a man and his girlfriends, there is very little sexism in hi fi. It's very pleasant and reserved. Not at all like boat shows or hunting / camping / beer. I've never seen an accident, or someone who got poor, buying hi fi.

Hi-fi is very less dramatic, than you make it out to be, I feel. We have good feelings when we purchase, and hopefully, good feelings as we upgrade and occasionally, sell. You make a new fried, when you give him a deal, after all.

There's noting at all, "fair" about hi-fi. You can either afford it, or you can not. It's not very mass-market.

I'm sure Mr. Wolf cares very much about his customers and his business: he wouldn't be succeeding and expanding from a very small base, if he weren't!

Besides he looks like a nice, normal man though I have not met him, does he not, with a nice taste in sensible clothing, from his photos, can you not tell?

He smiles genuinely, and seems to be doing well at something he enjoys and is well suited for!

Let us all wish him luck, and hope that his products will continue to improve and shine as they have, perhaps to a price point when more of us here can afford such wonderful excellence!

I can imagine any orchestral player would love to have a loudspeaker such as the M5 or Q5 to listen to their recordings, or any other, for that matter, in the Magico range. Most of us listen to music on such crappy stereos. Most jazz musicians, that I know, on ghetto blasters, at best, and this was when they were in music school, and trying to transcribe difficult passages of hard-to-hear instruments because of the frequency range and distortion of their systems :)

I hate to see the best attacked, as if we must somehow live in a Ayn Rand universe, where things don't get better, for fear of the consequences.

I remember staying at the Regent Hotel in Bangkok as a child, and wondering what I was missing out by not staying at the Mandarin Oriental hotel, which was more famous, and highly regarded, on the river. Maybe I even felt sorry for myself. :) My parents and I were on vacation, and our tour only included the Regent, the second best hotel in town, at the time. The Mandarin Oriental, however, was the "best in the world." You know, I really didn't miss out. We saved a little money. We had our fresh orchids on the bed each morning or afternoon after we returned and chocolates or sweets as I remember, I had my introduction to the wonderful sensation of drinking water melon juice in the morning - how wonderful in the climate - there's noting quite like watermelon juice for refreshment, not even alcohol -, there was an amazing Thai silk tapestry on one wall of the lobby, on some mezzanine halfway up the central staircase - just gigantic by a child's sense of proportion, and no less than three hotel workers on staff duty for each guest at the hotel. Quite above typical standards here in North America, and what I had been used to, here, and in Europe. Sure, it was only second best, but after the week or so that we stayed there, I hardly felt "ripped off" by my family for not abandoning the tour, and moving to the more "ubber" Mandarin Oriental.

In the same comparison, I can't imagine one would fell ill-at-ease living with and listening to a Magico M5 today, as if their needs as some who likes to listen to music, weren't being served by their "investment" - I'll use your sort of words to try to grasp the way you're looking at hi-fi.

I guess that's about a long enough of a ramble, for my first posting to this board.

Staxguy
Vancouver, BC

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