Amps - Simaudio Moon 700i & 600i

dunstansim -- Wed, 01/26/2011 - 04:39

I have been thinking about upgrading my amps for some time now but so far i have not taken the plunge. I have considered pass labs and also Ayre V5 and K5 power and pre amp separates. I was quite set on the Ayre combo but the overseas dealer I was talking to seems too busy to entertain me. I asked him for a price quote but the quote did not come after a month despite promises- so I have given up on Ayre. After reading RH's glowing review of the Simaudio 600i integrated amp, I am now seriously considering its big brother, the Simaudio 700i. I am now using Ayre C5xemp universal disc player with B&W 805s standmount speakers. Pairing the 805s and the 700i may be a bit of a mismatch but I want a more powerful amp so that I will have more options and flexibility (in terms of selecting speakers) when I upgrade my speakers in future. I have 3 questions.
1) Has any one auditioned the 700i ?
2) Are there sonic differences between the 600i and 700i ?
3) Will the Simaudio 700i "match" my Ayre C5xemp ?
As there are no high end audio dealars where i live, I have to order them from overseas dealer and i will not have the chance to listen before buying. So any advice or opinions would be most welcome.

Sam -- Wed, 01/26/2011 - 08:33

U could delete question 3. The C5xemp has been used with almost any kind of system out there specifically by stereophile guys and it seems to be an easy match to most systems. The other questions should be answered by those with direct experience. From Robert Harleys review the simaudio amp sounds almost like the spectral dma 360 monoblock amps in a slim and more versatile package. May be he could give you some advice.

mathieu_cloutie... -- Tue, 03/08/2011 - 12:14

Hi,
I bought the 700I in october 2010, and I had the opportunity to use the 600i for a month in feb. 2011 because Moon had something to fix with my 700i.
from that experience, I think that RH's glowing review of the Simaudio 600i is a little bit generous... for a 8k amp
huge difference between the 700i and 600i, personally, I would not buy the 600i, would consider the competitors but really satisfied with the 700i.

the 600i is on the drier side, imaging and body of the sound not comparable

JLeeMD -- Tue, 03/08/2011 - 14:08

I thought the only difference between the two was power (175w vs 125w). Are there parts upgrades or design differences to explain the differences you heard? Do your speakers need the extra power? I'm very curious because when my Levinson No. 383 integrated is put out to pasture, I'm planning on buying one of the Simaudio integrateds.

Sam -- Tue, 03/08/2011 - 19:50

J.Lee...you are a brave man willing to spend 6K to 8K without even listening. How about spending $500 and go to a dealer where they have this then buy it? what if its not to your liking? Reselling you will loose lots of money. A new component as soon as out the door drops value like crazy...worse than a car. If I were to get something so expensive it better be something I like and Id keep it for at least 10 years....but that's just me. Regardless....I am amazed!

dunstansim -- Thu, 04/28/2011 - 00:24

Hi Mathieu,

Thanks for your feedback. I have since bought the 700i without having the chance to compare it with the 600i.based on what u said, I am glad I did not opt for 600i. I am very happy with the 700i but I understand it takes about 400 hours to be fully broken in. So am looking forward to further improvemments in sound. Any suggestions for matching speakers ? (that will be my next upgrade project). I am using B & W 805S standmounts now. My room is only 3M by 5M.

JLeeMD -- Wed, 03/09/2011 - 00:13

Some of the equipment I've bought "sight unseen": Esoteric X-05 SACD/CD player, Mark Levinson No. 383 integrated amplfier, Usher Audio Mini Two Diamond speakers, Audioquest Colorado/Oak cables, Shunyata Research Anaconda CX power cords, Synergistic Research Powercell 4 with Gallileo MPC, Stillpoints component stands/cones...wait, that's my entire system! And, fortunately, I think it sounds terrific. One recent misstep: the Dynaudio Confidence C1s sounded great but needed more power than the Levinson (100w into 8 ohms) could muster. Fortunately, my dealer took them in on trade which allowed me to get the much more sensitive Ushers for almost nothing. Other than that, I've been pretty lucky.

Besides Sam, my wife barely tolerates the time and money I spend on this hobby as it is. I really don't feel like telling her I'm going out of town to audition equipment, that she's on her own with our 4 kids...it wouldn't end well for me.

mathieu_cloutie... -- Wed, 03/09/2011 - 07:48

Hi JLeeMD
Are there parts upgrades or design differences to explain the differences you heard?
It's hard for me to say, that is beyond my skills. but it Look quite different inside ... that is all I can say

My speakers are JM Focal Alto Utopia, 91 db sensitivity,
The manufacturer’s claim of 91dB sensitivity is a shade optimistic. Similar optimism applies to the alleged 8-ohm load, as the impedance dipped to around 3 ohms twice, at around 88Hz and 470Hz -- frequencies where power demands are quite high. .
What brand of speaker do you use?

mathieu_cloutie... -- Wed, 03/09/2011 - 08:30

Hi JLeeMD
What is the model of your Usher speakers
Mini Two Diamond speakers?

JLeeMD -- Wed, 03/09/2011 - 10:26

Usher Audio Dancer Mini Two Diamond DMD. They are easy to drive but I would consider paying extra for the 700i if it sounded better than the 600i. Plus, I would like to keep it >10 years so having more power would afford me more options in the future if I decide to upgrade my speakers.

Cam -- Mon, 03/14/2011 - 09:15

Can anyone comment on the differences between the Moon Evolution new integrateds (600i/700i) vs. the original Moon Evolution i-7 integrated?

JJefferson -- Thu, 07/28/2011 - 22:56

I intend to buy the 600i- I find the comments from the first 700i owner interesting since I had a chance to ask the SimAudio people at the last Salon Son Image in Montréal if it was worth considering the 700i- the response: ``really if you have really inneficient speakers, the 600i is fine for most uses``. This left me with the impression tha the sonic difference were not that great for the price.

mathieu_cloutie... -- Fri, 07/29/2011 - 09:07

Hi JJefferson
I would suggest you to make your own judgement by trying both, ideally with your own equipment
would be really interesting to see what you detect
Sounds expensive to add more than 4k to the price if it was only for the additional 50w
are you only looking at Moon for your amp?
What kind of speaker do you have?
keep us informed

JJefferson -- Fri, 07/29/2011 - 21:52

Hi Mathieu
I auditioned the 600i as well as Sim's own P5.3/W5.3 combo,as well as other preamp/amp combos from Modwright, Ayre (which I really liked and would be my second choice), Bryston, Primare. I also listened to the Spectral Monoblocks at 17K a pair to get a sense of what you get for that price. I own Proacs D38s- they have a 91 db efficiency and I am currently driving them with a Simaudio I-5 integrated. I did hear the 700i but not in the best conditions for critical listening at the time.
You are right, the best would be to listen to the 600i and 700i head to head at home, but I will at least compare them in the store and although the extra 4k may indeed bring more than the extra 50W, I don't think I am ready to go past the 8K price point of the 600i unless I am really blown away by the differences.

Did you really notice a major improvement (e,g, deeper bass, more resolution, soundstage, timbral accuracy, etc.), that tipped your decision? Usually in this category of components, my experience has been that it becomes a matter of preference and that subtle sonic differences can sometime translate into fairly substantial price difference.

Thanks.